3.1. Jimmie Johnson or Darrell Waltrip, the greatest sprint cup driver ever polls....

[fastfordfan]

Junior Johnson made Waltrip seem better than he was. He practically doubled his yearly wins his first year with Jr's operation. That was the organization to beat when DW was having his best years. JJ has been beating Jeff Gordon in the same equiptment. I was surprised to hear Jeff say that winning a championship in the chase era is HARDER than when he won his 4. I can't argue with him.

There isn't even a contest here. DW was very good in THE best equiptment in an era where it was much easier to dominate the 4 or 5 real contenders in the field.

I also think JJ's win total was hurt by points racing. Even so, he'll pass DW's 84 in the next 8 - 10 years.

Yea just like he made B. Allison Cale And Bill Elliott

 

[FenderBumper]

Yea just like he made B. Allison Cale And Bill Elliott

Made their careers BETTER, which is exactly why Cale told DW to get in Juniors car when he stepped away.

 

[Greg]

I have been asking myself could Darrell Waltrip been as good in the 48 during his prime, and I do believe we have seen Johnson’s prime. The question is impossible.

But Darrell’s best ten years in many ways are favorable, Jimmie has two more titles, but Darrell was better in the other categories.


During the span Darrell drove six years for Johnson, and four years for DiGard.


Sorry for the poor formatting but the data is posted below.



Darrell Waltrip

NASCAR Career Statistics for DW's best 10 year span (consecutive years)
Year points starts wins Avg Fn win % age
1977 - 4 - 30 starts 6 wins 8.3 Avg Fn 20.00% win % 30 y/o
1978 - 3 - 30 starts 6 wins 10.4 Avg Fn 20.00% win % 31 y/o
1979 - 2 - 31 starts 7 wins 7 Avg Fn 22.58% win % 32 y/o
1980 - 5 - 31 starts 5 wins 12.8 Avg Fn 16.13% win % 33 y/o
1981 - 1 - 31 starts 12 wins 7.2 Avg Fn 38.71% win % 34 y/o
1982 - 1 - 30 starts 12 wins 9.1 Avg Fn 40.00% win % 35 y/o
1983 - 2 - 30 starts 6 wins 7.7 Avg Fn 20.00% win % 36 y/o
1984 - 5 - 30 starts 7 wins 11.2 Avg Fn 23.33% win % 37 y/o
1985 - 1 - 28 starts 3 wins 7.3 Avg Fn 10.71% win % 38 y/o
1986 - 2 - 29 starts 3 wins 10 Avg Fn 10.34% win % 39 y/o

TOTALS 300 starts 67 wins 9.1 Avg Fn 22.33% win % 34 average age


Jimmie Johnson

NASCAR Career Statistics
Year - points - starts wins - Avg Fn - win % - age
2002 - 5 - 36 starts 3 wins 13.5 Avg Fn 8.33% win % 26 y/o
2003 - 2 - 36 starts 3 wins 11.4 Avg Fn 8.33% win % 27 y/o
2004 - 2 - 36 starts 8 wins 12.1 Avg Fn 22.22% win % 28 y/o
2005 - 5 - 36 starts 4 wins 12.7 Avg Fn 11.11% win % 29 y/o
2006 - 1 - 36 starts 5 wins 9.7 Avg Fn 13.89% win % 30 y/o
2007 - 1 - 36 starts 10 wins 10.8 Avg Fn 27.78% win % 31 y/o
2008 - 1 - 36 starts 7 wins 10.5 Avg Fn 19.44% win % 32 y/o
2009 - 1 - 36 starts 7 wins 11.1 Avg Fn 19.44% win % 33 y/o
2010 - 1 - 36 starts 6 wins 12.2 Avg Fn 16.67% win % 34 y/o
2011 - 6 - 36 starts 2 wins 11.9 Avg Fn 5.56% win % 35 y/o

TOTALS 360 starts 55 wins 11.5 Avg Fn 15.28% win % 30 average age

 

[Greg]

Waltrip only finished 11 points behind Petty in 79.

The deal with Allison was bad but Waltrips own hardheadness.

What hurt even more was pitting for four tires under yellow at Pocono with 4 to go. He lost 5 positions because no one else stopped and NASCAR never restarted the race.Waltrip had been running 2nd, that cost Nineteen points under the old point system.

I would not dispute those points, but I do think blown engines hurt Waltrip in 79 as well. I am thinking that is the year they had blown engine changes down to less than 10 minutes. If my memory is correct the DiGard team did enough of those quick behind the wall changes to refine their methods.

I think that probably led to banning the practice, only a few teams like DiDard would spend $ for the extra points. I remember Petty even saying they were not going to replace the engines mid race during the heat of that points race.

I do remember, it happened enough to get mentioned a bit during that title chase.


It was a good one.

 

[FenderBumper]

I judge Darrell's career the same way he openly judges Richard and Pearson when comparing himself to them. He was most outspoken when he didn't get inducted alongside Pearson. DW QUOTE "It was so much easier back when they were getting all them wins".

The guy is a self centered dick, but he was a great driver IN HIS DAY. From the stats just posted, you can see how his numbers jumped when he switched over to an organization that was winning championships already......often by cheating. Cheating, or going well beyond the grey area, was much more rampant back when ole' DW was getting all them wins, and Junior was the king of rule bending. When NASCAR started really cracking down on him, DW's numbers took a nose dive.

 

[MOEJOE]

Yah, what FB said.

 

[Greg]

I judge Darrell's career the same way he openly judges Richard and Pearson when comparing himself to them. He was most outspoken when he didn't get inducted alongside Pearson. DW QUOTE "It was so much easier back when they were getting all them wins".

The guy is a self centered dick, but he was a great driver IN HIS DAY. From the stats just posted, you can see how his numbers jumped when he switched over to an organization that was winning championships already......often by cheating. Cheating, or going well beyond the grey area, was much more rampant back when ole' DW was getting all them wins, and Junior was the king of rule bending. When NASCAR started really cracking down on him, DW's numbers took a nose dive.

He had good numbers with the 4 posted DiGard years too, no titles but almost an averaged 20 % win ratio.


If cheating tainted him, Cale is inflicted too with his Johnson titles. As well as Bobby Allison's title with Gary Nelson, does anybody believe Nelson only got creative with the #10 Sacks R&D car? (Bobby wasn't happy about the #10 getting the newer tricks, but he still had Nelson in 83).


Or does anyone believe that Elliot's 85 NASA rocket would meet today's strict tolerance system. Obviously a way of life for anybody wanting to win these non boy scout events in the Day. DW just talked more about that culture.


Pettys big motor at Charlotte was the one that got publicity. In the early 70s (71, I think) Petty and Cale both were suspected of having oversized motors at Charlotte, and some believe 3rd place Allison was paid hush money to drop the complaint.
There's Bobby, Daytona and Bumpergate too.


So yeah, The tech line was softer then, that's no surprise, and it should be obvious that racers then and now maximize every tolerance or non-enforced limit/rule. But that did not stop owners from hiring who they believed was the best talent.



Nascar has a tougher tech line now, but it still has CC's named Chad, or a 90s Ray Everhamn car that was banned. Or the Brad K/ Paul Wolf(s) abusing every possible pit lane timing mark. That's just timeless racing.


The timeless universal nature of racers are clear, and I don't think it taints any of them, DW or Chad included.


Could DW, be a pain, a jerk, Jaws (plus more adjectives) and not sweet at the HoF? absolutely. Did that affect his or JJs driving ability? Apparently not.


The nose dive imo, was the 1990 broke leg, and age.

 

[FlFlash]

The guy is a self centered dick, but he was a great driver IN HIS DAY. From the stats just posted, you can see how his numbers jumped when he switched over to an organization that was winning championships already......often by cheating.

Just looking at stats......from 1972 when DW first raced in Cup thru most of 1975 he only competed in 40 Cup races almost All in his own car sponsored by his family with some help from a small local trucking company. His cars where used up wrecked older cars that he rebuilt.
In 1975 he ran 10 races for Digard, 1976 was his First Full season so it only makes Common Sense his stats would suddenly jump when he moved to a Full Time Fully Sponsored Competitive team.
It say's a Ton that a driver as capable as Cale Yarborough and a Car Owner as Big as Jr Johnson thought enough of DW to put him in Jr's car.

If everyone thinks Jr's cars where the only ones "cheated up" well..............

 

[klemmabyna]

i missed voting in round three, but this is the only one i would have went the other way on.