# 31 ----winless champ ---even closer now !

StandOnIt said:
nice stick n ball gif..on topic as usual. rah rah and all that. The other one is a girl..you guys got it together alright.:blink:
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Pudge, you are the resident Newman fan, did you honestly think at the start of the season that Ryan would be sitting second in the eliminator round..:biggrin:
 
StandOnIt said:
Pudge, you are the resident Newman fan, did you honestly think at the start of the season that Ryan would be sitting second in the eliminator round..:biggrin:
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to be honest, no, but i did think he would make the chase, but no i didn't. only because i don't think RCR have the equipement. also i think he would be less likely to recover from a bad race out of all the chasers.
 
pudge said:
to be honest, no, but i did think he would make the chase, but no i didn't. only because i don't think RCR have the equipement. also i think he would be less likely to recover from a bad race out of all the chasers.
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yeah me too, I believe he changed his style of driving and he has done more with less than any of the others by far. Made me a fan, I'm pulling for him, hope he makes it to Homestead.
 
pudge said:
to be honest, no, but i did think he would make the chase, but no i didn't. only because i don't think RCR have the equipement. also i think he would be less likely to recover from a bad race out of all the chasers.
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StandOnIt said:
yeah me too, I believe he changed his style of driving and he has done more with less than any of the others by far. Made me a fan, I'm pulling for him, hope he makes it to Homestead.
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yep ! brains.....not brawn

flip flop fan identity for ryan.:D
 
quiet as it is kept, young Dillon had a good day at Martinsville for RCR. 12th, Menard 14th to Newmans 3rd. way off the subject, Dinger 9th.
 
another thing, i did think he would have a win this season
 
Why is Ryan Newman in second place in points? The points system should be more simple. This is car racing...not a chess game!
 
Here is my opinion on wins . If there is a tie in points at the end of the season , the championship should be awarded to the driver with the most wins.
 
Yeah....the driver with the most wins should take it,considering top ten finishes,ect.
 
Nathan_259 said:
Personally I don't like the idea of NASCAR using a system like the F1 system, where only drivers at the front earn points, cause then the underfunded teams wouldn't earn anything, when they're also racing for position.
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That is good point. But there could be a system that awards points for every position as well as reward winning. I think the points system originally served the underfunded teams as well as the richer teams. It served Nascar's and a local promoters need to insure they had full car counts or entries for all events.

But winning or even getting a top five, or at least a top three should be getting some type of bonus imo.
The points difference between 1st and 2nd should be greater than 31st to 32nd imo. From 2003 to the present it just seems like we went from one extreme to another with the reward system.

Last of all I am just wind bagging or just killing time. The Chase in whatever form for a given year isn't going away.
Sensible or not Nascar is to invested to turn back now.

I don't like the new format, but Nascar is still the best big time form of racing imo.
I have enjoyed college football virtually all my life as well in spite of not liking the screwed up path toward a national championship.
I don't like everything they do at work, and a lot of nonsense is part of the landscape as well, but along with the others I am too invested and old to walk away.

So back to Nascar, it is what it is, I am going to try to enjoy the eliminations. My thoughts haven't changed and I sympathize with the opposition most, but it is the only party in town for me.
 
bee9711 said:
Why is Ryan Newman in second place in points? The points system should be more simple. This is car racing...not a chess game!
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The math is pretty simple. He scored the second most points of the Chase contenders @ Martinsville, the first race in this round.
 
Why can't we all just enjoy the racing? It's not like we win anything from the chase .. leave arguing about it's validity to the people that it affects .. the teams. You don't seriously think Nascar could put in a chase format that the majority of team owners (AKA, money) don't agree with?
 
StandOnIt said:
It is real possible that all of the chasers advance without a win to Homestead. too many good cars competing out there with only two races left until the final race.
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Newman and Kenseth are the only Chase drivers left that have not won a race all season. I thought that was the point of this topic.
 
I actually love the idea of a heavily weighted point system. Almost every NASCAR team is going to finish in the top 12 or 15 during the course of the year.

At the end of the day, these are "championship" points. If you're in 35th every week, do we really need to dish them out? If Danica breaks into the top ten, top five or higher, she gets a pretty hefty points boost.

I like that system better.
 
Professur said:
Why can't we all just enjoy the racing? It's not like we win anything from the chase .. leave arguing about it's validity to the people that it affects .. the teams. You don't seriously think Nascar could put in a chase format that the majority of team owners (AKA, money) don't agree with?
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Okay, who here isn't enjoying the racing this year? Let's see a show of hands. Anyone?

Let me expand on your suggestion and take it one step further. The overwhelming majority of us here don't stand to win anything or gain anything financially from any aspect of this sport, not just the Chase. Therefore, why even discuss or debate any of it since none of it technically affects us, right?

As passionate race fans, this is what we do, discuss and debate what we're watching. Hell, sometimes we go to war over it, like with this Chase. Doing so likely won't change a darn thing, and we all realize that. I'm not trying to change the system, even though I wish it would change. As I said before, I simply enjoy the exchange of ideas and thoughts on the subject.
 
Professur said:
Why can't we all just enjoy the racing? It's not like we win anything from the chase .. leave arguing about it's validity to the people that it affects .. the teams. You don't seriously think Nascar could put in a chase format that the majority of team owners (AKA, money) don't agree with?
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It does affect the fans to a certain degree, which will in turn affect NASCAR as a whole. The racing is still racing, so I continue to watch. I would continue to watch even if there wasn't a championship at all, just a conglomeration of sanctioned races throughout the year.

I will try not to speak for everybody, but the point of contention for most anti-chasers is the fact that a championship is supposed to be indicative of a dominating season. Dale Sr, Richard Petty, Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon; they all won their championships because they completely kicked ass throughout the season (with the exception of a couple of Jimmie's, where he simply kicked ass over a series of 10 races). With this format, all that needs to be done is finish somewhere near the front and then kick ass at Homestead. A winless, 15th place average finish driver is not a champion in most fans' eyes.

But yes, the racing is still enjoyable to watch.
 
Professur said:
Well said
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Thanks man.

Don't get me wrong. I do see where you're coming from. Some days I get on here feeling battle weary and I'm like "Ehh, I'm staying out of the Chase fight today." Then, on other days, I stand in front of the mirror, put my war paint and my angry Kyle face on, and come in guns blazing, going "hell yeah, eff the Chase! :mellow:"

For what it's worth, I have to admit that I've found an angle that's somewhat worth paying attention to, the angle that hawg brought up in the OP, winless Newman (and Kenseth). They probably won't pull it off without winning a race, but it would be pretty cool if one of them did.

I really wouldn't mind seeing Hamlin get it either. If he won it and really started acting like a total jerk about it, we could always just deny his victory and be like "nah, your little Chumpionship doesn't count, sorry." :D
 
Turn5ive said:
So Kenseth was the "real champion" last year?

I don't think there's a way to make the majority happy here. I really don't. Here's food for thought.

In the NFL we have 12 playoff teams.
In the NBA/NHL we have 16 playoff teams
In MLB we have 10 playoff teams (that's pretty random)
And in European soccer they have... ZERO!

None. Just a champion and people who took 2nd-20th

So technically this NASCAR Chase is extremely American.
NASCAR through 2003 had a more traditional European model.
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I was just making a point. As I've been saying, the new format is very much like stick and ball playoffs, where the best team all year often doesn't win. The only problem is stick and ball has the cover of multiple divisions / leagues where all the teams don't play each other often, if at all, much less every week.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Thanks man.

Don't get me wrong. I do see where you're coming from. Some days I get on here feeling battle weary and I'm like "Ehh, I'm staying out of the Chase fight today." Then, on other days, I stand in front of the mirror, put my war paint and my angry Kyle face on, and come in guns blazing, going "hell yeah, eff the Chase! :mellow:"

For what it's worth, I have to admit that I've found an angle that's somewhat worth paying attention to, the angle that hawg brought up in the OP, winless Newman (and Kenseth). They probably won't pull it off without winning a race, but it would be pretty cool if one of them did.

I really wouldn't mind seeing Hamlin get it either. If he won it and really started acting like a total jerk about it, we could always just deny his victory and be like "nah, your little Chumpionship doesn't count, sorry." :D
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I just roll with whichever side of the argument seems like more fun that day. Like I said, I really don't care too much who is champ as long as the racing is good.

It's been good, REAL good.
 
Mr. Gregory said:
Okay, who here isn't enjoying the racing this year? Let's see a show of hands. Anyone?

Let me expand on your suggestion and take it one step further. The overwhelming majority of us here don't stand to win anything or gain anything financially from any aspect of this sport, not just the Chase. Therefore, why even discuss or debate any of it since none of it technically affects us, right?

As passionate race fans, this is what we do, discuss and debate what we're watching. Hell, sometimes we go to war over it, like with this Chase. Doing so likely won't change a darn thing, and we all realize that. I'm not trying to change the system, even though I wish it would change. As I said before, I simply enjoy the exchange of ideas and thoughts on the subject.
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It isn't surprising you had to explain all that to a guy who can't spell 'professor'. ;)
 
bee9711 said:
Why is Ryan Newman in second place in points? The points system should be more simple. This is car racing...not a chess game!
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For all the Dr. McCoy fans out there..

"Dammit Jim, I'm an engineer, not a race car driver".
 
NASCAR HoF'er Dale Jarrett was asked his opinion on a possible winless champion the other day @ Martinsvile. He response came in the suggestion of a change to the current Chase leading forward. He was using four of the current crop of eight possible drivers moving into the final race @ Homestead including the winless Ryan Newman and Matt Kenseth. He said that he would like to see NASCAR implement a change that if a winless driver advanced to that final race that he/she would have to win that final race in order to take the title while someone that has already won a race in the previous 35 only have to finish ahead of the other three drivers.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
NASCAR HoF'er Dale Jarrett was asked his opinion on a possible winless champion the other day @ Martinsvile. He response came in the suggestion of a change to the current Chase leading forward. He was using four of the current crop of eight possible drivers moving into the final race @ Homestead including the winless Ryan Newman and Matt Kenseth. He said that he would like to see NASCAR implement a change that if a winless driver advanced to that final race that he/she would have to win that final race in order to take the title while someone that has already won a race in the previous 35 only have to finish ahead of the other three drivers.
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dpkimmel2001 said:
NASCAR HoF'er Dale Jarrett was asked his opinion on a possible winless champion the other day @ Martinsvile. He response came in the suggestion of a change to the current Chase leading forward. He was using four of the current crop of eight possible drivers moving into the final race @ Homestead including the winless Ryan Newman and Matt Kenseth. He said that he would like to see NASCAR implement a change that if a winless driver advanced to that final race that he/she would have to win that final race in order to take the title while someone that has already won a race in the previous 35 only have to finish ahead of the other three drivers.
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Leave it to Jarrett. Here I thought Brian was stupid.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
NASCAR HoF'er Dale Jarrett was asked his opinion on a possible winless champion the other day @ Martinsvile. He response came in the suggestion of a change to the current Chase leading forward. He was using four of the current crop of eight possible drivers moving into the final race @ Homestead including the winless Ryan Newman and Matt Kenseth. He said that he would like to see NASCAR implement a change that if a winless driver advanced to that final race that he/she would have to win that final race in order to take the title while someone that has already won a race in the previous 35 only have to finish ahead of the other three drivers.
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I think we'll see some kind of rule to prevent the possibility of a winless champion going forward should Newman or Kenseth win the championship without winning a race. I don't think we've ever had a winless champion in Cup, not in the modern era anyway. It'd look kind of bad if the format that's all about winning produces a winless champion in its first year.
 
ToyYoda said:
I think we'll see some kind of rule to prevent the possibility of a winless champion going forward should Newman or Kenseth win the championship without winning a race. I don't think we've ever had a winless champion in Cup, not in the modern era anyway. It'd look kind of bad if the format that's all about winning produces a winless champion in its first year.
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I predict rules infractions for the 31 and 20.

Or maybe some super secret bonus money for Harvick.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
But would be GREAT for the sport! B'bye new generation Chase format!
:cheers::headbang::whoopee::beerbang::dance::bleh: .......Not necessarily in that order
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Unfortunately, I think the next format would be this: no set number of drivers in the Chase, you win one of the first 26 you're in, if you don't you're out. Then if a chase driver wins one of the first 9 chase races, they're in at Homestead, if not, they're out. This would completely eliminate points racing, ensure the champion has at least two wins, and could have as many as 9 drivers competing for the championship at Homestead. This is similar to what @MikeInIllinois posted a couple days ago.
 
I don't know where this preoccupation with number of wins came from . I never heard it discussed till a couple of years ago , now it seems that Nascar will somehow suffer untold misery if we have a winless champion . Surely folks must realize that counting season points is an acceptable way of determining a champion . Obviously it's different than 'stick and ball' sports , but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it . Nothing will happen if we have a winless champion , honest...nothing .
 
You race to win.....thats the name of the game. but consistency is important too. For me, I'd be ok with a winless champion as the cup is about being good over a series of races as well as winning. If NASCAR wants to go stick and ball, they go all in on the win thing. It all depends on how they see it.

I'd be ok with weighting wins with more points than they have now so someone with 5 wins and a couple of DNFS (that happened racing for the win for example) would be ahead of the person with 5 top 5s and 2 top 10s.
 
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