5 DNFs

Gordons been "falling off" ever since everyone else started getting equal equipment and treatment from NASCAR.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Top 5s - 5 (T13th)
Top 10s - 12 (T10th)
Laps led - 217 (11th)
Avg. finish - 15.5 (11th)
Driver rating - 88.6 (13th)

Not a very good year, but not as bad as you think.

The last time he finished outside the Top 10 in points he finished 6th the next year, so maybe things can turn around a little bit.
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I don't even think it's that bad, I still think he's competitive. My position is simply that he's no longer a top 10 driver in NASCAR, therefore a Chase berth is not a foregone conclusion
 
3wideinturn1 said:
I'm not saying he's a backmarker at all, he's still somewhat competitive. However the Chase isn't easy to make, only a select few can make it in every year. If you look at Gordon's career, anyone with a set of eyes can plainly see the drop off. I just think he's been finishing where he stacks up, he's a bubble guy now and certainly not a shoe in for the Chase.

Reck, over the last 5 years Gordon's had what 6 wins? Kez had 5 just last year, I believe Denny had 5 last year aswell, Kenseth has 5 this year. Gordon's had a Hall of Fame career, but time has caught up to him just like it does to everyone else.

The crew chief is not the problem, nor is the equipment. Jeff just doesn't cakewalk through the field anymore like he used to, the competition is tough.
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He's been in the top 10 in points all of his career except for 3 instances, one including his rookie year so I'd say he stacks up just fine.

Your one year sample size just doesn't work.

Denny and Kez won 5 races last year, fine. Where are they now? Exactly. Worst off than Gordon.
 
reck said:
I just gave you the stats, as did FLRacing.

Your problem is you're looking at the win collum exclusively. Going by that, yes the fall off is evident but winning is not everything in this sport. Kenseth can tell you all about it.

Also Gordon once won 10 races and still came short of a championship so yea. You see where I'm going with this.
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Looks like you opened up this thread to do a sliced bread thing. His bubble hasn't popped yet, and yours has. And like him, you want to argue and deny the stats..or they aren't the "right" kind for ya. I stayed out of his wank for the most part and I will stay out of this one, but you ain't fooling anybody. Like I said, even when he got in the chase lately he has lost places, I watch his performance and he is mostly wheel holding and hemming and hawing about the freakin car instead of elbows up. I get it, over 40, the walls get harder as ya go along, and you have had plenty of past success. you got a few more years of whining left though, but it ain't going to get any better as time rolls on, he hasn't shown any inclination to be another Mark Martin.
 
StandOnIt said:
Looks like you opened up this thread to do a sliced bread thing. His bubble hasn't popped yet, and yours has. And like him, you want to argue and deny the stats..or they aren't the "right" kind for ya. I stayed out of his wank for the most part and I will stay out of this one, but you ain't fooling anybody. Like I said, even when he got in the chase lately he has lost places, I watch his performance and he is mostly wheel holding and hemming and hawing about the freakin car instead of elbows up. I get it, over 40, the walls get harder as ya go along, and you have had plenty of past success. you got a few more years of whining left though, but it ain't going to get any better as time rolls on, he hasn't shown any inclination to be another Mark Martin.
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Whatever you are talking about? :confused:

Deny what stat? That he hasn't been in the top 10 18 out of 21 years? That He hasn't had a pole in 21 years straight? That He hasn't had an average start and finish of 10.4 and 12.6 respectively? Anyone, please stop me when I'm not saying something that the stats themselves aren't screaming out.

Its quite stupid of me to even be bringing out the stats when the stats speaks for themselves.

I mean, if any of what I just posted are lies, please point them out to me.

Not even going to touch that Mark Martin comment. Haha.
 
FlFlash said:
Gordons been "falling off" ever since everyone else started getting equal equipment and treatment from NASCAR.
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IMO, what it all boils down to is how do Gordon fans want to see Jeff end his career.

Does he go the route of, say, Ned Jarrett and Junior Johnson who stepped aside while they still had plenty of gas in the tank ?

Or does he just end up reminding us of Darrell Waltrip and Richard Petty, a couple of guys who made us cringe at the end of their careers every time they climbed in the car.

I know Gordon still has a few years left on his contract but if he were to win at Homestead this year and then announce his retirement shortly thereafter, it would be fine with me.
 
pjmolo said:
IMO, what it all boils down to is how do Gordon fans want to see Jeff end his career.

Does he go the route of, say, Ned Jarrett and Junior Johnson who stepped aside while they still had plenty of gas in the tank ?

Or does he just end up reminding us of Darrell Waltrip and Richard Petty, a couple of guys who made us cringe at the end of their careers every time they climbed in the car.

I know Gordon still has a few years left on his contract but if he were to win at Homestead this year and then announce his retirement shortly thereafter, it would be fine with me.
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I would hate to see Gordon go that route.

When the Danica type driver starts out performing him every week that's the cue to hang it.

Any idea why Petty and Waltrip stuck it out so long? I know Gordon had said the minute he's not competitive (Going for wins, top 5s, top tens) and so on that he would retire.

I'm sure guys like Petty and Waltrip said the same probably but the question is, how good were their rides to begin with?

I'd like to see Gordon win at least 90 races to cap off his career in NASCAR and maybe one last magical season ala 2007.

Also, doesn't he have a lifetime contract with Hendrick? Its all a matter of sponsors now and the desire for racing Gordon has now.
 
Gordon isn't done yet but some things have to change on the #24 team and, IMO, it starts with the attitude of the driver.
 
pjmolo said:
Does he go the route of, say, Ned Jarrett and Junior Johnson who stepped aside while they still had plenty of gas in the tank ?

Or does he just end up reminding us of Darrell Waltrip and Richard Petty, a couple of guys who made us cringe at the end of their careers every time they climbed in the car.

I know Gordon still has a few years left on his contract but if he were to win at Homestead this year and then announce his retirement shortly thereafter, it would be fine with me.
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At this point Gordon is nowhere near being a Petty or Waltrip at the end of their careers.
 
BOWTIE GUY said:
Jeffy is two years from DW at the end.
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That sounds about right, maybe three years tops. Now that the smoke has cleared and he is out of the chase, it will be interesting to watch his performance. I think it will fall off like it has the last two years previous when he made the chase.
 
My two cents.

Gordon crashed out in 4 of 5 of his DNFs this year. Some of that can be attributed to bad luck, bad track position or being in the back and more at risk, I think Jeff and Alan both own some of that.

Bad pit timing or luck put him at the end of the longest line at Sonoma, he along with Kurt had the two best cars that day. At Bristol he probably could have won but a melted bead cost him his right front tire and the crash, attributing blame there is subjective. It could be blamed on set up, but it could also be blamed on Gordons aggressive line immediately to the blown front.

Alan doesnt have Gordons justified prestige, but still the same Alan has won with Martin and Klye Busch.
The biggest problem I see is a lack of aggression by Gordon. In the 90s refuse to lose wasnt just a slogan it was a reality.
Today Gordon seems more cautious, and the introduction of double file restarts wasnt a postive thing for him. It probably would have been in the 90s, but not now. He still has tons of talent but he relies on tire management and working his way through the pack. In a world were you get a lot short pit cycles, especially late in the race that will work against you.
I wish I could find the quote made around the most recent Pocono race, he said something to the effect that getting in the top 10 (good finishes without wins) meant as much as winning for a wild card. I just dont think the Gordon of the 90s woukd agree with that approch.

Last of all I do think his team needs to see more of an animal on restarts. Brad, Kyle, and Edwards will take everything they can get and push the boundaries. Their crews including the CC knows that some late race cautions can help them "steal" a few. Jeff seems to have more Chivalry than animal in him, and he needs a lot more laps for his brilliance to materialize. Alan probably knows long runs is their strength and adjustments are built on that premise. I also think if your crew has more faith in your ability to exploit opportunities they will in turn get more fired up, they are professionals for sure but still human.

I wished it worked more often, I despise the multiple cautions for changing the natural race, but the sad reality is that you dont win many races that way anymore. If Jeff ever dominates again they will have to get better on those short runs.
 
reck said:
I would hate to see Gordon go that route.

When the Danica type driver starts out performing him every week that's the cue to hang it.

Any idea why Petty and Waltrip stuck it out so long? I know Gordon had said the minute he's not competitive (Going for wins, top 5s, top tens) and so on that he would retire.
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LOL. Dude, I love me some Danica, but that's a pretty low benchmark to be setting. I don't see Jeff sticking around that long. By that standard, he'd be driving well into his sixties. :)

He seems like a pretty proud driver, and as such, I think he'll be more along the lines of Rusty than DW as far as retirement goes. And heck no, he ain't there yet, though I certainly agree with those who say he's on the downslope. I could certainly see him getting to 90 wins before he steps out of the car and takes over the day to day operations of Hendrick Motorsports.
 
Here's the thing. I PROMISE you that Gordon is still the most talented driver in the Hendrick stable. Since 2008 I swear Gordon has been the guinea pig for creative setups & experimental packages because he is the best driver to handle such. Even with a crap car, even though he wont admit it because he has too much class, Gordon will end up with a top 10. You know if you see Gordon spin on his own the car is 100% unhandleable by any driver. Gordon knows this & I think he relishes at the challenge. He's been snake bitten ever since his tumble at the Daytona Shootout 2 years ago but I remain positive that Gordon will race his heart out in the chase after this scandal & come with a new spirit in 2014 (hopefully Alan goes).
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Here's the thing. I PROMISE you that Gordon is still the most talented driver in the Hendrick stable. Since 2008 I swear Gordon has been the guinea pig for creative setups & experimental packages because he is the best driver to handle such. Even with a crap car, even though he wont admit it because he has too much class, Gordon will end up with a top 10. You know if you see Gordon spin on his own the car is 100% unhandleable by any driver. Gordon knows this & I think he relishes at the challenge. He's been snake bitten ever since his tumble at the Daytona Shootout 2 years ago but I remain positive that Gordon will race his heart out in the chase after this scandal & come with a new spirit in 2014 (hopefully Alan goes).
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Agreed 100%

This ain't no fanboy talk either.

Gordon is probably not better than Jimmie at this point in his career but he runs laps around Kahne and Jr. and that should not even be up for debate.

Gordon has been too willy nilly giving away his stuff. First he gave everything of his 2001 championship equipment to Jimmie and he has also given Jr. his entire crew and cars/setups which has massively improve Jr's perfomance.

The fact he's grouped with Jimmie and Chad doesn't hurt either.

Gordon just needs to toughen up and say no mas.
 
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reck said:
Agreed 100%

This ain't no fanboy talk either.

Gordon is probably not better than Jimmie at this point in his career but he runs laps around Kahne and Jr. and that should not even be up for debate.

Gordon has been too willy nilly giving away his stuff. First he gave everything of his 2001 championship equipment to Jimmie and he has also given Jr. his entire crew and cars/setups which has massively improve Jr's perfomance.

The fact he's grouped with Jimmie and Chad doesn't hurt either.

Gor just needs to toughen up and say no mas.
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Gordon does all that cause he knows it is gonna be his team in a few years.

He can try to play tough and even do some stupid things, but he is one of the most genuinely nicest guys I've met in all of sports.
 
beantownkid10 said:
Gordon does all that cause he knows it is gonna be his team in a few years.

He can try to play tough and even do some stupid things, but he is one of the most genuinely nicest guys I've met in all of sports.
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Unless your name is Rusty Wallace, Matt Kenseth, or Clint Bowyer.
 
KevinWI said:
Matthew2470 said:
Prior to NASCAR presser: "Gordon got screwed!"

After NASCAR presser: "Gordon sucks! (rehash the same idiotic things people have been saying for several years)"
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See:
FenderBumper said:
you do realize more than one person is on the internet, right? ;)
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LOL. Exactly.

That post by Matt (and the one by Stewart Fan in the other thread that FB was responding to) make it sound like there was this one, 100% unified group of people that were all saying Gordon got screwed initially, and then after he got added in, that very same group all reversed their positions and are now saying they hate it.

I know it's always tempting to try to make people look like flip floppers/hypocrites, but I just don't believe that's the case here. There were always two groups of people with two totally different opinions on this deal. It's just that one group was more vocal when things weren't going their way, and now that they've gotten the outcome they wanted, the opposing group has raised their voices.
 
Exactly, Mr Greg. It all seemed so obvious, but that detailed explanation will surely help some people cope better with the millions of people on the internet every day.
 
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