after homestead penalties a joke, lug nuts etc. nascar.....come on

hidesert cowboy

hidesert cowboy

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here is a link,
http://www.espn.com/jayski/cup/2017/story/_/id/21504323/homestead-post-race-penalties

nascar is actually going to penalize these guys into next year! it just seems like a joke for a CC to sit out a race next year because he left the lug nuts off the car from the last race of the season prior. Having to sit the first race sucks because its the daytona 500 and its important for the CC to be there at the first race of the season. I also think this could impact a CC's chances of getting a job because the new time might think oh he has to sit out the first race.

I just think the spirit of the rule is defeated by having penalties extend to next year. There probably is some sort of arrangement with teams to pay fines in certain situations for the CC. my question is what if the CC isn't employeed for that team anymore?
 
If they do this does Larson get to carry over his stage points from the last race
 
This is how it works.

Just because its the last race of the season doesn't mean you get a free pass.

Obviously since there are no more races for the year, the penalties are carry over to the next points race event which would be the Daytona 500.

I have no problems with this at all. But I do have issues with the incosistency.

Seems like Brad and Kenseth teams got the same issue but were penalized differently.
 
I believe Kenseth had two lug nuts loose. The penalties are also series spacific, so Ratcliff chiefing for Bell in Xfinity and the switch of chief Gayle to the 20 car means all are good to go in that swap deal for Daytona
 
Penalizing a CC because a pit crew member didn't do his job is BULL CRAP.
How would one of those idiots in management lik it if their same rules applied in life. If a teenager
is caught speeding and impaired driving, does the parent lose their driving licence?
Lets get real here and make the guilty party be responsible for his/her own errors. And why should a driver lose points? I can see owner points being deducted but the driver? Is he suppose to get out of the car and check that all lug nuts are on tight?
Come on Nascar, put the damn bottle down and start giving some real thought into what you are doing. Stupid rules like this is what is driving fans away. I have one foot out the door as it is.
 
Do you really believe the Chief has to come out of his pocket to pay the fine, like honey we can't pay the mortgage payment this month. :rolleyes:The crew chief is the most expendable person on the pit crew.
 
Team Penske said:
Penalizing a CC because a pit crew member didn't do his job is BULL CRAP.
How would one of those idiots in management lik it if their same rules applied in life. If a teenager
is caught speeding and impaired driving, does the parent lose their driving licence?
Lets get real here and make the guilty party be responsible for his/her own errors. And why should a driver lose points? I can see owner points being deducted but the driver? Is he suppose to get out of the car and check that all lug nuts are on tight?
Come on Nascar, put the damn bottle down and start giving some real thought into what you are doing. Stupid rules like this is what is driving fans away. I have one foot out the door as it is.
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The rules state the crew chief is responsible for the actions of all team members, including the driver. There's nothing new about that; it's been that way for literally decades. Why should the driver lose points? Because the time saved not tightening the lug nuts completely provided him a competitive advantage. Personally, I'd like to see driver points done away with entirely and just go with owner ('team') points.

In theory, idiots in management ARE responsible. Leaders in the military sure as hell are.
 
Crew chairs have always been held responsible. Crew member fights, CC fined.

He is ultimately responsible for the management of his team and car.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
The rules state the crew chief is responsible for the actions of all team members, including the driver. There's nothing new about that; it's been that way for literally decades. Why should the driver lose points? Because the time saved not tightening the lug nuts completely provided him a competitive advantage. Personally, I'd like to see driver points done away with entirely and just go with owner ('team') points.

In theory, idiots in management ARE responsible. Leaders in the military sure as hell are.
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I disagree with much of what you said, especially in the military. You don't see many Generals getting their hands slapped.
Just because something happened for decades doesn't mean it is right and should continue.
Even the catholic church eventually quit burning witches and most countries stopped stoning people to death.
 
Team Penske said:
I disagree with much of what you said, especially in the military. You don't see many Generals getting their hands slapped.
Just because something happened for decades doesn't mean it is right and should continue.
Even the catholic church eventually quit burning witches and most countries stopped stoning people to death.
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what did you put in your coffee this morning anyway?
 
Team Penske said:
I disagree with much of what you said, especially in the military. You don't see many Generals getting their hands slapped.
Just because something happened for decades doesn't mean it is right and should continue.
Even the catholic church eventually quit burning witches and most countries stopped stoning people to death.
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The US Navy canned a half-dozen senior officers over the two accidents in the Pacific this year.

Change the rules; I don't have a problem with that. I think the dumbest thing (even dumber than the Chase or plate racing) is having a driver sit in the car when it fails inspection. Now that's a case where the person paying the penalty had NOTHING to do with the infraction; he isn't responsible for inspection readiness in the least. Put the CC's butt in there in a fire suit a few times in July and then we'll see how often the car fails.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
The US Navy canned a half-dozen senior officers over the two accidents in the Pacific this year.

Change the rules; I don't have a problem with that. I think the dumbest thing (even dumber than the Chase or plate racing) is having a driver sit in the car when it fails inspection. Now that's a case where the person paying the penalty had NOTHING to do with the infraction; he isn't responsible for inspection readiness in the least. Put the CC's butt in there in a fire suit a few times in July and then we'll see how often the car fails.
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Get rid of that LIS contraption that is temp sensitive and see how many pass.
 
If they break the rules, they break the rules. Penalties should carry over to the next season. Otherwise, what the heck is the deterrent from breaking the rules at the end of a season knowing you'll get a free pass?

The only think that makes these penalties ridiculous is what they are being penalized for. The loose lug nut rule was in response to overreaction by Tony Stewart. NASCAR had tried to let the teams be responsible by being self policing. Memories can't be that short. The lug nut issue was the flavor of the week round these parts back in April 2016. Once Tony made his remarks that NASCAR wasn't doing their job, fans in droves jumped on the anti establishment bandwagon..... like they always do. Tony basically backed the powers that be into a corner and forced them to react. Tony got what he asked for and we are now where we are at.

A little refresher on the Tony Stewart Lug Nut Rule.....

Tony Stewart blasts NASCAR for lug nut rule, says drivers at risk

DENVER, N.C. -- Tony Stewart is "beyond mad" with NASCAR over the sanctioning body's lack of lug nut enforcement on pit road, the driver/team owner said Wednesday.

NASCAR stopped requiring teams to put all five lug nuts on its wheels at the start of last season, part of a new pit road technology initiative that also saw a reduction of its officiating force. With officials no longer in every pit box, NASCAR said it was up to the teams whether they should put all five lug nuts on the wheel or not.

But teams have been pushing the limit by only securing as few as three lug nuts, creating an epidemic of loose wheels in the sport. And Stewart said it's only a matter of time before that ends badly.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...s-nascar-lug-nut-rule-driver-safety/83298016/

NASCAR changes lug nut rule after Tony Stewart comments

CHARLOTTE -- Five days after three-time champion Tony Stewart railed against NASCAR's lack of a lug nut policy and accused the sanctioning body of being lax on safety, NASCAR sent a memo to crew chiefs Monday afternoon and changed the rule.

Teams will now be required to have all five lug nuts "installed in a safe and secure manner" or have the driver risk being called back into the pits during the race. If the infraction is found after the race, a crew chief will receive a minimum $20,000 fine and a one-race suspension.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...ut-rule-after-tony-stewart-comments/83515074/
 
That is why they have five studs on the hub for. Or they would have spent millions figuring how to run with two IMO.
 
StandOnIt said:
That is why they have five studs on the hub for. Or they would have spent millions figuring how to run with two IMO.
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Nothing to figure out. Adopt the same single-nut stud every other sanctioning body uses and the problem goes away. That means the fueling will likely take much longer than the tire changes, so the inevitable result will be reducing the number of over-the-wall crew to four - fuel, jack, carrier, changer.
 
How about go back to the old rule for the last race. An official makes sure they are on before leaving pit road. If not the penalty I served not the spot. That way we are not worried about cucumbered champions who win the race. So if Jason ratcliff comes back to cup 3 years from now which is likely to happen at some point are they still worried about the penalty?

I also think it's odd that the champion always wins the race these days. I don't think it's by accident. Might as well just have the final 4 only in the race. I still say they let the top 4 guys cheat up the cars a tad for the last race
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Nothing to figure out. Adopt the same single-nut stud every other sanctioning body uses and the problem goes away. That means the fueling will likely take much longer than the tire changes, so the inevitable result will be reducing the number of over-the-wall crew to four - fuel, jack, carrier, changer.
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They don't want it to go away IMO. the Nascar pit stop is a big part of the show, always has been. it's weee, bip, bip, bip bip bip weeee. other side, that's how it goes. :D
 
hidesert cowboy said:
How about go back to the old rule for the last race. An official makes sure they are on before leaving pit road. If not the penalty I served not the spot. That way we are not worried about cucumbered champions who win the race. So if Jason ratcliff comes back to cup 3 years from now which is likely to happen at some point are they still worried about the penalty?

I also think it's odd that the champion always wins the race these days. I don't think it's by accident. Might as well just have the final 4 only in the race. I still say they let the top 4 guys cheat up the cars a tad for the last race
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There aren't any officials left to check the lug nuts.
 
StandOnIt said:
They don't want it to go away IMO. the Nascar pit stop is a big part of the show, always has been. it's weee, bip, bip, bip bip bip weeee. other side, that's how it goes. :D
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I'm not advocating it, just pointing out there are options that would both make it easier to change the tire and reduce payroll. I don't have a problem with the 5-lug change.
 
If there are penalties at the last race....... no way to enforce them except at the next race.......... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that........
 
kymartin6 said:
If there are penalties at the last race....... no way to enforce them except at the next race.......... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that........
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With this logic, MTJ is qualified for the 2018 playoffs with a win at Homestead.
 
Different penalties / different application of penalties because last race of the season would require a rule change.
We don’t like rule changes except when we like them. It’s all so confusing.

Not sure about other sports but the NHL carries unserved portions of player suspensions forward.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2...ter-energy-series-teams-penalized-post-miami/

As a result, crew chief Jason Ratcliff was suspended from the next Monster Energy Series event and received a $20,000 fine.
Ratcliff will not have to serve the one-race suspension since he will move atop the pit box for the No. 20 Joe Gibbs Racing XFINITY team of Christopher Bell for the 2018 NASCAR Series season.
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Damn, Ratcliff is a solid CC.

Why is he getting the demotion for?
 
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