America's war on cars and how it affects NASCAR
- Thread starter HoneyBadger
- Start date
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
I got halfway through and found this video to be off base, but certainly worthy of provoking a discussion.
Slappy's trying to blame America's obsession with SUVs and big ass trucks on Obama policies.
IMO, the main reason people stopped buying sedans from Ford, Chevy and Dodge is because they've been notoriously unreliable for so long. I think most people who are going to buy a sedan for commuting to work and back are going to buy a Toyota Corolla. Or even a hybrid vehicle.
Big trucks are a culture thing.
Slappy's trying to blame America's obsession with SUVs and big ass trucks on Obama policies.
IMO, the main reason people stopped buying sedans from Ford, Chevy and Dodge is because they've been notoriously unreliable for so long. I think most people who are going to buy a sedan for commuting to work and back are going to buy a Toyota Corolla. Or even a hybrid vehicle.
Big trucks are a culture thing.
Government fuel fleet standards were inadvertently encouraging manufacturers to build trucks and SUVs long before Obama ran for his first office. By setting the overall minimum MPG for vehicles build on a truck chassis to be lower than cars, the government made it cheaper to build trucks instead of researching ways to improve car fuel economy. Since the big vehicles are where the profits are, that's what the advertising pushes, convincing people that's what they want.
But yeah, it doesn't help that quality standards for the former Big Three have been sliding for almost as long.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
2022 was the tell tale sign that Americans won't buy cars anymore. Gas was $4/gallon and people were still buying trucks and preferred complaining about gas prices than downsizing.
Yeah, I've never gotten that. I know so many people with what appear to me to be more vehicle than they'll ever need. No kids, nothing to tow, rolling full time in a Silverado Pavement Princess.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
I've had people who have these big ass trucks ask to borrow mine to haul scrap or something because they don't want to scratch the bed of their truck.
They're glorified minivans designed to look masculine.
He forgot to say 2 years later in 2011 (Obama) CAFE relations were changed and tightened for his B.S. story. People buy what they want to buy. Trucks are now majority 4 doors can carry 5 or 6 pretty comfortably, can tow a small house and some SUV's aren't far behind.
I he forgot to mention that this current administration relaxed the EPA's regulations of methane gas pollution a gift to big oil and not a peep was said about the growing EV/Hybrid market.
I he forgot to mention that this current administration relaxed the EPA's regulations of methane gas pollution a gift to big oil and not a peep was said about the growing EV/Hybrid market.
I didn't forget it; I didn't know it. Thanks for the correction, although not for the incorrect assumption.
Agreed, but no one should expect the price of gas to be what it was when they made their purchase. Commodities don't work like that.
GM isn't hurting
The automaker raised its guidance once again. GM now expects adjusted earnings of $13 billion to $15 billion; net income of $10 billion to $11.4 billion; more free cash flow and capital spending in the $10.5 billion to $11.5 billion range which bodes well for future products.
Ford doesn't appear to be hurting either.
Ford Motor announced Q3 2025 earnings on October 23, 2025, reporting an EPS of $0.45, which topped the consensus estimate of $0.38 by $0.07. Quarterly revenue rose 9.4% year-over-year to $50.53 billion, above analysts' expectations of $43.08 billion. With a trailing EPS of $1.16 and a P/E Ratio of 11.06, Ford Motor's earnings are expected to grow 4.76% next year, from $1.47 to $1.54 per share.
The automaker raised its guidance once again. GM now expects adjusted earnings of $13 billion to $15 billion; net income of $10 billion to $11.4 billion; more free cash flow and capital spending in the $10.5 billion to $11.5 billion range which bodes well for future products.
Ford doesn't appear to be hurting either.
Ford Motor announced Q3 2025 earnings on October 23, 2025, reporting an EPS of $0.45, which topped the consensus estimate of $0.38 by $0.07. Quarterly revenue rose 9.4% year-over-year to $50.53 billion, above analysts' expectations of $43.08 billion. With a trailing EPS of $1.16 and a P/E Ratio of 11.06, Ford Motor's earnings are expected to grow 4.76% next year, from $1.47 to $1.54 per share.
I was referring to the article, not yourself.
wi_racefan
Team Owner
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2017
- Messages
- 6,597
- Points
- 773
Like my old neighbor. He went from a Honda civic to a 6.2L Trail Boss lol! I don't even think he owns a trailer hitch
It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that future Nascar's will be modeled after EV's or Hybrids. They are fast as hell some of them and they look like grandmas grocery getter.
Nothing written in stone, but Motor Trend is writing stories about it.
I've long wondered why NASCAR hasn't moved its race trucks to the top series. Those are what customers want, and what drive the manufacturers' profits, not limited production niche vehicles. (Not to mention that would resolve so many aero problems!)
Same here. I think the traditional fan would have a cat probably.
Pretty sure that is one of the reasons Heim has been stuck in the Truck series for so long.
LouieLouie
Team Owner
I thought a lot of the reason sedans went away was because of insurance and EPA rules. It was always more expensive to insure a coup than a sedan. Then when SUVs got popular, sedans became more expensive to insure. Then the EPA came along and said coups, sedans had to meet certain mpg but SUVs didn't. And that killed the sedan. Now, all cars are being made bigger to be considered in the next higher class but have smaller engines to meet mpg regs. Its how the "small" trucks came about. The Colorado, ranger, etc are the same size as a year 2000 F150 but only have a 4 cylinder turbo in them now. The original Colorado, Rangers, etc used to be the size of a current Traverse or Explorer, or even slightly smaller than those which also have 4 cy turbos.
MRM
Team Owner
I have a car and prefer to drive a car even though my wife's SUV drives more like a car than our first SUV from '03. Most SUV's are built on car chassis. Most ride and drive like a car. They sit higher up, which is one of the reasons why I hear people say they don't want to go back to the car. I'm still hoping it's a cyclical thing.
As far as trucks, I think for a lot of truck owners it's about waving the biggest thing they have that's not in their pants. Many of today's trucks won't fit into a normal parking space. I hate trying to get around or park next to one in a lot or a garage.
As far as trucks, I think for a lot of truck owners it's about waving the biggest thing they have that's not in their pants. Many of today's trucks won't fit into a normal parking space. I hate trying to get around or park next to one in a lot or a garage.
virtualbalboa
driver of corey day bandwagon since 2022
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2023
- Messages
- 1,493
- Points
- 223
Sedans are probably dead. Hatchbacks have more utility. That's ultimately the reason for it.
Naitch
Reads history books
Actual analysis is a weak point for Slap. I remember a video where he argued that Greenville, SC deserved a track because they had five within a 2.5 hour drive. That’s not the conclusion that his data supported. If anything, it’s an a huge argument against Greenville having a track.
He’s a passable researcher, his work on finding information about Air Base Speedway was pretty great. I have also watched videos of his where I have been able to follow along on Wikipedia.
He also leans way too heavily into the “I am a real race fan because I hate the playoffs.” I have never found his analysis on the playoffs to be sufficient to support his conclusions, especially when he makes videos with inflammatory titles that say that NASCAR is chipping away at the “dam of legitimacy.”
Just my opinion.
The value equation is just not there for sedans. Pre-2005, an SUV was a gas hogging V8 aerodynamic box with wheels. The fuel economy benefits aren't worth it for many people anymore. Sedans don't suck, SUV's just got better and cheaper than they once were.
Mispeedway15
Team Owner
- Joined
- May 22, 2016
- Messages
- 5,256
- Points
- 793
Let’s not forget pickups used to be actual work vehicles. For any car with high end tech, you had to get the sedan. Now these trucks are absolutely loaded up. Also gas is pretty cheap, it’s at a similar level to where it was in 2005 by dollar! Think about that, the CPI is 65% higher than it was in 2005 and yet gas is about the same.
IMO also there is little reason for an ICE sedan anymore.
That depends a lot on where you live. Regardless, will it stay cheap for the five (six?) years it takes to pay for it?
Most of them are a couple of missed payments from disaster...but gas is cheap lol.
Revman
Pushing the limits for better.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2014
- Messages
- 16,400
- Points
- 1,033
Chevy no longer races a car in production, and you post about relevance? You sure are high maintenance.
MRM
Team Owner
The so-called war on cars is from the green energy people that want everything to be electric. Some of the CEO's of the car companies share that vision (GM is one). But with sales not good with electric vehicles, some of the companies are backing off their stance to be 100% electric. Since people that drive a car want something gas-powered with some umph, that's why the car was in their crosshairs. Remember, GM killed Pontiac because they were more performance oriented and because they sold more Buicks in China. Heck, even Dodge backed off the new Charger being a fully-electric car. At some point, they'll figure out people want gas-powered cars or at least a hybrid.
Appears to be a case of where you get your news from it appears.
Record EV sales lead GM, Ford to 8% increases in Q3 U.S. auto sales
- Ford said sales of all-electric vehicles increased by 30.2% during the period to a fresh quarterly record of more than 30,600 units.
- General Motors and Hyundai said EV sales more than doubled during the quarter.
- EV sales during the third quarter are expected to be a record, ahead of federal incentives of up to $7,500 ending in September.
- https://www.cnbc.com/2025/10/01/third-quarter-us-auto-sales.html
Hybrid/electric sales are rising faster then all electric.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
These aren’t the people I’m talking about.
And people who have trucks as work vehicles and griped about gas prices didn’t bother me because their complaints were legit.
I got so tired of people who bought a Chevy Silverado 9500 XL Triple Diesel Dual Exhaust Earnhardt Edition complaining about gas while saying people who drove Toyotas weren’t real men.
Zerkfitting
Team Owner
The only sedan GM produces is a Cadillac. Ford disguises the Mustang as a sedan for NASCAR. I think the most common engine these days is a 4 cylinder (I don't want to hear a 4 cylinder engine in a NASCAR). It might be time to move towards an IMSA body where the engine manufacturer is prominent.
virtualbalboa
driver of corey day bandwagon since 2022
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2023
- Messages
- 1,493
- Points
- 223
Modern trucks are more personal luxury vehicles than functional work vehicles and everyone on earth knows it not the least of which is anyone who has any relationship to procurement for construction whatsoever.
MRM
Team Owner
Electric sales were good up until the $7,500 rebate expired. Now, they are down. Either way, as long as gas prices continue to fall, most people won't be giving up their gas-powered vehicles for an electric one.
Interesting term...giving up. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy an electric vehicle or a hybrid. Just because one administration is doubling down on fossil fuels while the rest of the world is moving in the other direction doesn't make it so.
In 2024, renewables generated about 40.9% of the world’s electricity (including hydro, wind, solar, etc.).
DIDIT
Old School Fan
Curious as to your thoughts why “at the moment, most people can’t afford to replace an existing vehicle?” Was there a better time when folks could buy a car? When do you think that was? Just making conversation.
I'll get back with you Friday. It's late (by my standards) and I have an early start to a full day of birding tomorrow.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
New car prices and even used car prices are through the roof. Repossessions are at the highest level since the height of The Great Recession.
There are a multitude of factors, the biggest being the reckless decision the American people made on November 5, 2024.
The United States economy is in a bad place, a REALLY bad place. Stagflation is about as bad as it gets, though it will never officially be acknowledged by the Ministry of Misinformation or State Media.
Stock prices of Advance, O'Reilly, and AutoZone are up this year between 10% and 25%. This usually indicates people are spending to keep older vehicles running instead of buying new ones.
DIDIT
Old School Fan
What I find interesting is how many BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, etc cars are being driven. I remember a day when you would be excited just to see one. Heck these days a Cadillac is nothing. I suspect some folks get in over their head. I can’t really speak to where the economy is these days other than everyone I know are doing just fine.
HoneyBadger
Kelsey Mitchell fan account
Well, it's bad.
This is from AXIOS, just today:
1 big thing: Why Main Street's pain matters
The economic fortunes of mom-and-pop businesses are diverging from those of their larger counterparts — a pre-existing gap that now appears to be getting bigger, faster.
Why it matters: The evidence is in the private-sector labor market, that in recent months, has been propped up by large companies as smaller firms — typically responsible for 40% of U.S. employment — shed workers.
The big picture: Larger businesses have been able to adapt to a tough economic backdrop — historic tariffs, high interest rates and a more cautious consumer — in ways far more challenging for small companies with fewer resources.
- "It's evident that medium and large firms are better positioned to weather what's going on," said ADP chief economist Nela Richardson.
- "They can set prices, they can change suppliers. They can hire contractors instead of permanent employees in a more sophisticated way. They can hire globally, not just in their local region. They have more tools in the toolbox," Richardson said.
- As we mentioned yesterday, the private sector shed 32,000 jobs in November, according to payroll processor ADP. Small firms — those with fewer than 50 employees — accounted for all of the losses.
- Those businesses reported a net loss of 120,000 jobs, the most small businesses have cut since the pandemic's onset. Larger businesses grew, but not enough to offset the cuts elsewhere.
- "The natural reaction is to cut costs elsewhere and we know that labor is their biggest cost," Boockvar added.
- Subchapter V filings, which allow firms to shed debt faster and cheaper, are up 8% from last year, according to data from Epiq Bankruptcy Analytics.
- Chapter 11 filings — a process used by larger businesses — are up roughly 1% over the same time frame.
- One bright spot: Despite that pain, applications to start new businesses — ones likely to employ other people — remain notably higher than in pre-pandemic times, according to the latest data available from the Census Bureau.
- That hints at a debate among monetary policymakers, who are trying to gauge how much weak jobs growth is a byproduct of fewer available workers.
- But ADP had earlier told reporters that small businesses generally had less demand for workers — not that staff weren't available for hire.