As if the Chase isn't already a joke; Tony's substitution takes it further

ladyspartan16 said:
No way was Tony not getting a waiver when Kyle missed more races and did.
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Actually, a lot of people in the media and inside the sport were saying Kyle deserved a waiver and Tony didn't because Kyle's injury was on track. Personally, all they'd be doing if that happened is creating another form of judgement call, where NASCAR could decide, "Hey, Kyle Busch's injury is severe, he deserves a waiver" followed by "You know, Kyle Larson could have started the race with his injury, we're not granting him a waiver".
 
i agree that racing 13 of 26 races should not make you chase eliable. at most 4 DNQS would be ok for me.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Stewart got a waiver a few years ago for missing two races. There's a big, HUGE, GIANT difference between missing two races and missing 11 races.

If Kyle Busch had missed two races and gotten the waiver, there would be no outrage. Because, it's realistically possible to win a championship missing two races.

Personally, I think the allowance of waivers should be completely done away with. Drivers should be allowed to miss up to three races if they so choose. If Kyle Busch or Kevin Harvick has clinched a Chase spot before they get to Bristol, that's awesome. And they should be rewarded for their success with a form of "bye week".
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You're entitled to your opinion, of course.

The fact of the matter is that in this format, missing 11 races prior to Richmond is a GIANT disadvantage in terms of both the win requirement and the ability to point your way into the top 30. Please note use of italics. I realize you disapprove of the current championship structure. That matters very little. For teams and drivers, everyone is in the point lead before the green flag drops at Daytona. Everybody knows what they have to do after that.

Oh, and I do agree that Mark Martin won the championship in 1990. He had it locked down with 3 races left on his schedule. It's probably reasonable to include him on the WHY IS THERE A CHASE ANYWAY blame list.
 
aunty dive said:
You're entitled to your opinion, of course.

The fact of the matter is that in this format, missing 11 races prior to Richmond is a GIANT disadvantage in terms of both the win requirement and the ability to point your way into the top 30. Please note use of italics. I realize you disapprove of the current championship structure. That matters very little. For teams and drivers, everyone is in the point lead before the green flag drops at Daytona. Everybody knows what they have to do after that.

Oh, and I do agree that Mark Martin won the championship in 1990. He had it locked down with 3 races left on his schedule. It's probably reasonable to include him on the WHY IS THERE A CHASE ANYWAY blame list.
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Kyle proved it's not that hard to make the top 30. He would have even if he didn't win four races. He made it in the top 30 in a month. Any above average driver with an above average car can make the top 30.

Missing races is actually an advantage, physically and mentally. Which is why I said I think people who have locked in their Chase spot at a certain point should be allowed to take a few weeks off to prepare for the Chase. Every other sport allows it. It's called rewarding success.

"Drivers can miss up to three races" does away with the whole medical exemption controversy. And adds a new element. Football teams that clinch a playoff spot fight for a "first round bye" and "home field advantage", because it's an ADVANTAGE to not have to play in the Wild Card Game.
 
aunty dive said:
... Oh, and I do agree that Mark Martin won the championship in 1990. He had it locked down with 3 races left on his schedule. It's probably reasonable to include him on the WHY IS THERE A CHASE ANYWAY blame list.
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Hey, watch that! Blame for the Chase is exclusively a Kenseth effect! ;)
 
4tires17gals said:
i agree that racing 13 of 26 races should not make you chase eliable. at most 4 DNQS would be ok for me.
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This would be like saying the New England Patriots only have to play 10 games and everyone else has to play 16. And if the Patriots go 7-3, they not only go to the playoffs, but get a first round bye. Even though a seven win season couldn't get anyone else in the playoffs.

I hate what happened to Kyle at Daytona. But I will never agree with the Chase exemption because it opened up a huge can of worms. The "Greatest comeback in sports history" headlines aren't worth damaging the long term integrity of the sport.

I was actually a defender of this new Chase format until all that went down. NASCAR proved all the critics right letting him in. And now Tony could get in? LOL.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Kyle proved it's not that hard to make the top 30. He would have even if he didn't win four races. He made it in the top 30 in a month. Any above average driver with an above average car can make the top 30.

Missing races is actually an advantage, physically and mentally. Which is why I said I think people who have locked in their Chase spot at a certain point should be allowed to take a few weeks off to prepare for the Chase. Every other sport allows it. It's called rewarding success.

"Drivers can miss up to three races" does away with the whole medical exemption controversy. And adds a new element. Football teams that clinch a playoff spot fight for a "first round bye" and "home field advantage", because it's an ADVANTAGE to not have to play in the Wild Card Game.
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Kyle did not get into the top 30 in a month. Kyle proved that he's Kyle. Nothing more.

The 11 races he missed advantaged him mentally and physically? Sorry ... he had bones sticking out of his leg. Taking a few weeks off after securing a spot will never fly ... too much corporate money on the table.

3 is easier than 11.
 
ToyYoda said:
Newman had just as much to do with it for finishing 6th in points despite winning 8 races that year.
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Penske cars used to be so inconsistent man. I remember when Rusty Wallace was winning eight or more races a year and never got close to Earnhardt in points because of DNFs. You know, back when NASCAR had a legitimate championship format and consistency mattered.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Penske cars used to be so inconsistent man. I remember when Rusty Wallace was winning eight or more races a year and never got close to Earnhardt in points because of DNFs. You know, back when NASCAR had a legitimate championship format and consistency mattered.
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I was happy to see Kyle win the championship last year under the rules that were in place. Having said that, if they scrapped the current chase format tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear. Well, a few tears of joy maybe.
 
aunty dive said:
Kyle did not get into the top 30 in a month. Kyle proved that he's Kyle. Nothing more.

The 11 races he missed advantaged him mentally and physically? Sorry ... he had bones sticking out of his leg. Taking a few weeks off after securing a spot will never fly ... too much corporate money on the table.

3 is easier than 11.
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"Kyle proved he's Kyle".

Do we have to go through this, again? I don't know how many times, since 2006, I've said Kyle Busch is the most talented driver in the history of the sport. That's why it only took him six races to make it in instead of 12, even with a few DNFs. Gibbs and company did the math and exploited that Chase waiver. They came to the conclusion that, if Kyle Busch and ran mediocre (because they feared he wouldn't be 100 percent), he could come back at Charlotte and still make the Chase if he lucked out and got a win (again, operating under the fear he wouldn't be 100 percent).

In other words, Gibbs knew that, he could 15th place or 20th place his way into the Chase if he returned for the 600. Because, it's not that hard to crack the top 30 when the guys who run about 26th on back in points are generally either 35th place cars or start-and-park cars.
 
ToyYoda said:
I was happy to see Kyle win the championship last year under the rules that were in place. Having said that, if they scrapped the current chase format tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear. Well, a few tears of joy maybe.
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Harvick won in 2014 and the way I feel about it, since Jeff Gordon fans love to cry about it all the time, is that Harvick just won the championship the welfare points system stole from him in 2010.

IMO, GIVEN THE RULES IN PLACE, the right guys have won both times.

Kevin Harvick was always going to win the Homestead Bowl in 2014. And plenty of people knew, when Kyle made the Chase, he'd win the Homestead Bowl in 2015.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
"Kyle proved he's Kyle".

Do we have to go through this, again?
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No ... if you'd prefer not to.

You've been around racing a long time. Long enough to know how far railing against this system is going to get you. Every race series, race team and race track you cover has something in common with NASCAR. Every one of those entities knows the game before the season starts. The chips fall where they fall and while that's going on in the Cup Series, many people, myself included, find it highly entertaining. We realize that others don't agree.
 
aunty dive said:
No ... if you'd prefer not to.

You've been around racing a long time. Long enough to know how far railing against this system is going to get you. Every race series, race team and race track you cover has something in common with NASCAR. Every one of those entities knows the game before the season starts. The chips fall where they fall and while that's going on in the Cup Series, many people, myself included, find it highly entertaining. We realize that others don't agree.
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Now you're doing mental gymnastics to ignore my points.

Kyle played with the rules that were given to him. The word "exemption" means he is exempt from certain requirements. Meaning, he had a different set of rules to play with. And that's the problem. Furthermore, NASCAR actually considered exempting him from the top 30 requirement, and I still suspect that, if he hadn't have made the top 30, they would've let him in the Chase anyway.

Kyle deserves credit for exploiting it and winning the championship. I knew he would win it.

The medical exemption was to protect drivers from missing the Chase if they missed a race or two because of a concussion or a minor injury. It was not designed with the intent of letting someone miss 11 races.

I'm saying, NASCAR should just write a rule that says drivers can miss up to a certain number of races for any reason if they so choose -- which is, ironically, something drivers and teams have wanted for 15 years.

But that's just too simple. Just like having a restart line instead of a gigantic restart zone the size of a football field, is too simple. NASCAR seems to like to overcomplicate things and have a rulebook that leaves a lot of things open to "judgement calls" and "discretion". Which is fine, it's their playground. I just don't like it. I believe the rules in racing should be black and white and think there should be more common sense.
 
aunty dive said:
Kyle did not get into the top 30 in a month. Kyle proved that he's Kyle. Nothing more.

The 11 races he missed advantaged him mentally and physically? Sorry ... he had bones sticking out of his leg. Taking a few weeks off after securing a spot will never fly ... too much corporate money on the table.

3 is easier than 11.
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Lol beat me to it.
 
I don't know why all the fuss. If there is an exemption then drop the rule.
The only rules that apply are you must be in the top 16 in points OR have won a race. Then you must earn your advancement to be in the top 4 at Homestead.
Nothing else matters so why try and change all the rules? Rules are meant to be broken, just ask any kid.:sarcasm:
 
Revman said:
.....and snapping your leg in half in addition to crushing your foot only adds to that physical and mental advantage. That line of thinking has already been destroyed IMO.
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Nothing improves performance more than bones sticking out of ones flesh :rolleyes:
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Now you're doing mental gymnastics to ignore my points.

Kyle played with the rules that were given to him. The word "exemption" means he is exempt from certain requirements. Meaning, he had a different set of rules to play with. And that's the problem. Furthermore, NASCAR actually considered exempting him from the top 30 requirement, and I still suspect that, if he hadn't have made the top 30, they would've let him in the Chase anyway.

Kyle deserves credit for exploiting it and winning the championship. I knew he would win it.

The medical exemption was to protect drivers from missing the Chase if they missed a race or two because of a concussion or a minor injury. It was not designed with the intent of letting someone miss 11 races.

I'm saying, NASCAR should just write a rule that says drivers can miss up to a certain number of races for any reason if they so choose -- which is, ironically, something drivers and teams have wanted for 15 years.

But that's just too simple. Just like having a restart line instead of a gigantic restart zone the size of a football field, is too simple. NASCAR seems to like to overcomplicate things and have a rulebook that leaves a lot of things open to "judgement calls" and "discretion". Which is fine, it's their playground. I just don't like it. I believe the rules in racing should be black and white and think there should be more common sense.
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If Kyles car had happened to have a flat tire or go down a cylinder at Homestead he WOULDN'T have won it
 
Kyle18fan said:
go down a cylinder at Homestead
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Bite your tongue. ;) That was a Chase Spec motor. They don't do that. I mean, not Chase Elliott, but Chase, as in the Chase that everybody hates....which is not Chase Elliott.
 
Revman said:
Bite your tongue. ;) That was a Chase Spec motor. They don't do that. I mean, not Chase Elliott, but Chase, as in the Chase that everybody hates....which is not Chase Elliott.
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Chase should change his name
 
I think the relief driver rule either needs to be changed to whoever finishes a race gets points/credit OR not allow driver changes mid-race at all.
 
Zeck said:
I think the relief driver rule either needs to be changed to whoever finishes a race gets points/credit OR not allow driver changes mid-race at all.
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Keep the relief driver. Split the points based on the percentage of laps driven. The one who completed the most laps gets credit for the finishing position.

Anybody know how many times a relief driver has won? I recall one in the Nationwide series a few years ago(Almirola start, Hamlin finish?), but that's the only one I know of.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Keep the relief driver. Split the points based on the percentage of laps driven. The one who completed the most laps gets credit for the finishing position.

Anybody know how many times a relief driver has won? I recall one in the Nationwide series a few years ago(Almirola start, Hamlin finish?), but that's the only one I know of.
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I believe the last time it happened in Cup was the 1977 Talladega 500 when Darrell Waltrip relieved Donnie Allison and drove to the win.
 
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