Bad Timing For Some Drivers

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fastfordfan

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NASCAR is still basking in the glory of a scintillating conclusion to the 2011 season, and will be for quite some time.

But just as there is a silver lining with every bit of bad news, there’s often a black cloud hovering on the horizon as well.

The black cloud NASCAR is facing going into the offseason is not new. It’s one it has faced before and will again.

While NASCAR fans celebrate Tony Stewart’s improbable championship and a thrilling 2011 season, Sprint Cup teams are shutting down, crewmen are looking for work and talented drivers are pondering their futures.

It is a common theme these days in the topsy-turvy world of sports, especially among industries that rely so heavily on corporate sponsors.

At least four Sprint Cup teams are shutting down due to a lack of sponsorship – Richard Childress Racing’s No. 33, Roush Fenway Racing’s No. 6 and the two Red Bull Racing teams.

What is particularly frightening is that two of those organizations – RCR and Roush – field elite teams that are consistently among the best in the sport. Both are championship-caliber groups that win races and feature high profile, all-star drivers, yet they are being forced to cut back from the maximum of four Cup teams to three.

RCR’s No. 33 is going away because driver Clint Bowyer left for Michael Waltrip Racing and it has not been able to find sponsors to replace General Mills, which is moving to Jeff Burton’s RCR team and cutting back its involvement.

Roush is in a similar situation. UPS, which had sponsored David Ragan’s No. 6 team the past three years, also is cutting back its sponsorship commitment, becoming an associate on Carl Edwards’ Roush team.

Red Bull, which owns Red Bull Racing, is leaving the sport entirely, making its two-car team extinct unless a last-minute investor and sponsors can be found.

Those are four full-time, formerly well-funded Cup teams that are going away, possibly leaving the series short of a full 43-car field next year.

And so far, only one new full-time team has emerged – Bowyer at MWR – and the part-time team that will feature Danica Patrick in a handful of Cup races for Stewart-Haas Racing next year.

The loss of teams and sponsors is a harsh reality the sport faces each year.

But this year’s cutbacks bring even more bad news.

With the loss of those teams, coupled with other driver shuffling, three former Sprint Cup winners are currently without rides for next season.

Ragan (Roush), Brian Vickers (Red Bull) and David Reutimann (MWR) have each won races in recent years. Vickers and Reutimann both have two career victories while the 25-year-old Ragan won his first Cup race this year.

Yet Ragan lost his ride when UPS decided not to return. Though he might have been released anyway given his struggles in five years with Roush, the lack of sponsors certainly doomed him. His first career victory this season did little to save his job.

Vickers, who won a race and made the Chase in 2009, likely would still be with the Red Bull organization if it could find investors and sponsors to keep the operation running. Instead, the former Nationwide Series champion, still just 28, is looking for a ride.

And Reutimann might be the saddest case. He landed his first Cup ride at age 37 in 2007 and won a race in both 2009 and 2010, finishing in the top 20 in points both seasons.

But Reutimann and his MWR team struggled this season, and Reutimann was released to make room for Bowyer, who signed with the team instead of returning to RCR.

Three recent winners, and three drivers with the talent and potential to win again, yet all three are looking for work and have few prospects, particularly at the Sprint Cup level.

But it doesn’t end there.

Two of the top young stars in the sport – Ricky Stenhouse Jr. and Trevor Bayne – also don’t have confirmed rides yet for next season.

Bayne shocked the racing world by winning the Daytona 400 at age 20 this year. Stenhouse, 24, won the Nationwide Series championship. Yet neither have full-time commitments for next year.

Roush has promised Stenhouse that he will have some sort of ride next season – probably in the Nationwide Series – but nothing is certain yet.

Bayne may have a Nationwide ride, or he may not. He will likely run a partial Cup schedule with Wood Brothers Racing again next year, perhaps sharing that ride with Stenhouse.

Both young drivers showed tremendous potential this year. Edwards predicts that Stenhouse will be a Sprint Cup star, and possibly a Cup champion, one day. Bayne already has won NASCAR’s biggest race.

Together, they could give NASCAR two new, young, rising stars. Yet, due to a lack of sponsorship, their futures also are uncertain.

After winning the Nationwide championship, Stenhouse should have sponsors lining up to back him as he defends his title next season, or to follow him to Cup.

And that the 2011 Daytona 500 winner – one with the character and youthful exuberance to attract a legion of fans – can’t find sponsors is a significant black mark against the sport and its marketing prowess right now.

NASCAR has a lot of positive momentum right now and a lot of good things going on.

But until the economy turns around and sponsors start flocking to the sport again, there will continue to be a dark cloud hanging over some of its drivers and teams.



http://www.scenedaily.com/blogs/jef...-a-sign-that-NASCAR-still-faces-problems.html
 
Ragan and Vickers had 5 years or more to prove they have what it takes and they failed. I feel bad for the way Waltrip ambushed Dave, but he was lucky to ever make it to cup.

I think that the only way to keep 43 cars on the track for the whole race is to increase the teams share of TV money. 70% to the tracks and just 20% to the teams leaves too big of a bill for sponsors.

We haven't had 43 cars actually racing all day for a few years now. Perhaps it's time to stop paying S&P's so the rest of the field gets more purse money. There are also a bunch of things nascar could do to cut costs and level the playing field, but they wont.
 
18 different winners in points paying races this season. 10 different racing organizations. It's hard to think that it could get that much more of a level playing field than that. It's racing. It hasn't changed. There are the haves and the have nots. It's like that at all levels of racing.
 
18 different winners in points paying races this season. It's hard to think that it could get that much more of a level playing field than that. It's racing. It hasn't changed. There are the haves and the have nots. It's like that at all levels of racing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only race winners not with a fully funded, top organization, was Regan Smith and Trevor Bayne.

I would say things are fine with the top 20 or 30 teams, because 20 or more of those are part of the 6 or 7 organizations that won 34 of the 36 races this year.

I don't have a problem with any of this, but if NASCAR want's 43 cars racing, something will have to change. None of the other big racing series have 43 cars on the track because of money. Personally, I think the sport would be better with 30 competitive teams and a few others trying to break into the sport while running the whole race. That would mean more purse money for all the teams, which would give startups a better chance of having some success and getting a sponsor.

Perhaps ending the top 35's guaranteed starting position and giving purse money to just the top 30 finishers is an option.
 
You are right, DP. In a sport that is so reliant on Corporate Dollars, things become quite unsettled when the corporations choose not to spend the money, or decide to spend it in a different fashion.

It's not just NASCAR either. We just learned that the legendary Indycar team of Newman-Haas is shutting down due to lack of sponsorship too.

Things are going to get worse before they get better, I am afraid...

Expect more empty seats in grandstands too, as fans struggle to justify spending their money on travel, hotels and race tickets.

NASCAR may even be forced to reduce the size of the starting field due to a lack of competitive entries. I hope that we don't see more Start&Parkers but I am afraid that we will see more of them in 2012...
 
To add to that IMO you need to throw out 4 races because anybody on the lead lap can win the race you know the ones i'm talking about
 
They should still stage them.
Just make them non-points exhibition races.
Run for the cash!
 
Perhaps ending the top 35's guaranteed starting position and giving purse money to just the top 30 finishers is an option.

I've never been a big fan of the top-35 rule either but I'll tell you what..... your idea of only paying out purse money to the top 30 will sure reduce the field real quick. If these teams are struggling to make ends meet now running as S&P's, imagine when they're not earning any money.
 
I've never been a big fan of the top-35 rule either but I'll tell you what..... your idea of only paying out purse money to the top 30 will sure reduce the field real quick. If these teams are struggling to make ends meet now running as S&P's, imagine when they're not earning any money.

Exactly my point. Good bye to S&P's soaking up money and providing no entertainment value. 43 car max, but start with as few as 30 cars. Startups will come to race a part time schedule because their share of the purse will be larger.

Allowing teams to start a race with no pit crew is rediculous. It's time to end the farce of the 43 team requirement. It hurts the teams that want to race.
 
NASCAR is just going through a contraction, which will happen to any venue that relies on sponsorship to keep things running. You'll never see this kind of stuff happen in the NFL, or the MLB, etc.
 
NASCAR needs a spending cap for the teams. The amount of money the top teams pour into stuff like windtunnels and over the top and really not necessary for good racing.

A spending cap would make sponsorship much more affordable.
 
I think it's time for NASCAR to look into having two-day programs, meaning practice and qualifying the first day and the race the second day. This would help cut down costs for the teams. They don't need to be at the track for three days.
 
I think it's time for NASCAR to look into having two-day programs, meaning practice and qualifying the first day and the race the second day. This would help cut down costs for the teams. They don't need to be at the track for three days.

Good point. But if they are traveling to California or New England, for example, shortening the schedule by 1 day wouldn't be a huge cost savings, y'know.
 
NASCAR is just going through a contraction, which will happen to any venue that relies on sponsorship to keep things running. You'll never see this kind of stuff happen in the NFL, or the MLB, etc.

Stick and ball is heavily subsidized by the cities that practically build their stadiums. Then the teams share the TV and keep the gate money. In nascar, track owners get 70% of TV money and put a small portion of the gate toward the purse. nascar keeps 10% of TV money, and have Sprint pay into the purse. They sprinkle in 20% of the TV money and sit back while teams find sponsors willing to pay for the show. It's THE most inequitable formula in sports. IF nascar was willing to share the TV cash and make team ownership a money making business, we would probably have enough teams for 2 divisions, and then we could have some real playoffs.

NASCAR needs a spending cap for the teams. The amount of money the top teams pour into stuff like windtunnels and over the top and really not necessary for good racing.

A spending cap would make sponsorship much more affordable.

I think it's time for NASCAR to look into having two-day programs, meaning practice and qualifying the first day and the race the second day. This would help cut down costs for the teams. They don't need to be at the track for three days.

I would rather see rules changes than a full team spending cap. nascar ended testing to lower costs, but the big boys spent $3 million on 7 post and 20 engineers to run the thing. All they did was shift the cost of testing from nascar and track owners to the teams.
 
Well here is a new one they missed:

Hamilton Means Racing plans to make Cup debut in 2012: Hamilton Means Racing, a team created by four principal owners with various levels of involvement in NASCAR, have announced their intentions to go NASCAR Sprint Cup Racing in 2012. Dell Hamilton, Jimmy Means, Arash Khorsandi and Kelly Owen will team up and look to make their first start in the Cup series at Daytona in February. The team is still reviewing their options for the driver of their newly formed #52. Recruiting talented individuals available in NASCAR and obtaining additional equipment vital to the team's effort, is the focus of the group at this point. Their plans are to operate from Means Motorsports race shop located in Forest City, NC alongside his fulltime Nationwide team. Means, no stranger to the NASCAR scene, has many years of experience as a Driver/Owner with 455 starts in the Cup series dating back to 1973. He has also owned and managed the #52 Nationwide team for the past 10 season since retiring as a driver. Hamilton Means Racing is hoping to secure additional partnerships and sponsors based on the relationships that Means, aka "Smut", has developed within the sport.
Hamilton, a businessman from Chattanooga Tennessee, operates Crusader Staffing who has been, and will continue to be, a longtime supporter of MacDonald Motorsports in the NASCAR Nationwide Series. Hamilton is excited about his role in the startup of HMR Racing, and stated "after researching what it takes to be competitive in NASCAR's top series, we are ready to get going and establish our team in the series." Owen and Khorsandi, Floridian natives, longtime friends and fans of the sport, see this opportunity as a way to fulfill a lifetime dream of being involved in the operations as well as creating new relationships in the sport of NASCAR. Owen entered the sport as a sponsor and has been involved with operations at Means Motorsports dating back to the summer of 2010. The two say they are aware of the obstacles ahead of them but look forward to the challenge.(Crusader Racing PR)(12-1-2011)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only race winners not with a fully funded, top organization, was Regan Smith and Trevor Bayne.

I would say things are fine with the top 20 or 30 teams, because 20 or more of those are part of the 6 or 7 organizations that won 34 of the 36 races this year.

I don't have a problem with any of this, but if NASCAR want's 43 cars racing, something will have to change. None of the other big racing series have 43 cars on the track because of money. Personally, I think the sport would be better with 30 competitive teams and a few others trying to break into the sport while running the whole race. That would mean more purse money for all the teams, which would give startups a better chance of having some success and getting a sponsor.

Perhaps ending the top 35's guaranteed starting position and giving purse money to just the top 30 finishers is an option.

Correct me if I'm wrong but all of the suggestions to reduce the 43 car field serve to reduce the likelyhood of an underfunded team like Regan or Bayne not increase it. I am all for upstart new teams having a chance to break into the Nascar clique .Bring on the start and parks , bring on some new sponsors, bring on some new faces.
 
Good point. But if they are traveling to California or New England, for example, shortening the schedule by 1 day wouldn't be a huge cost savings, y'know.
This is where the impound rule came from. But fans complained that there was not enough action, and drivers complained of nothing to do.

But it looked good on paper.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but all of the suggestions to reduce the 43 car field serve to reduce the likelyhood of an underfunded team like Regan or Bayne not increase it.

You're wrong. Start and parks would be gone, not teams with funding and technical alliances like Furniture Row and the Wood Brothers. The increased purse share would come in handy though.
 
You're wrong. Start and parks would be gone, not teams with funding and technical alliances like Furniture Row and the Wood Brothers. The increased purse share would come in handy though.

What is there ,maybe 3 of the 43 cars in a race that start and park till they find a sponsor . You would take their last place money and divide it 40 ways amongst the Hendrick cars and the rest giving them beer money , while taking away any chance of new teams getting a foot in the door . No thanks.
 
What is there ,maybe 3 of the 43 cars in a race that start and park till they find a sponsor . You would take their last place money and divide it 40 ways amongst the Hendrick cars and the rest giving them beer money , while taking away any chance of new teams getting a foot in the door . No thanks.

Thanks Ted, I've been trying to convince them of that fact for months....it has'nt stuck.
 
What is there ,maybe 3 of the 43 cars in a race that start and park till they find a sponsor .

Wrong again. the average is 6 or 7 cars out for various 'problems' before 80 laps have been run. Check the race stats. These cars account for around $400,000 in purse money per race. That could mean an extra $10,000 for those 25th through 35th place teams trying to actually race.


You would take their last place money and divide it 40 ways amongst the Hendrick cars.....beer money...

OK, I get it. I'm trying to have an intelligent discussion with the wrong guy.
 
Gates open 6 am Sunday morning. Practice 8 to 12. Race starts 2 pm.

Same schedule for NNW

For the trucks, gates open at noon Friday, practice 2 to 6 pm, race at 8 pm.
 
Sorry , my fault , sorry ... Thought we were talking start and park...sooooo sorry.

You don't understand how start and park works since NASCAR "cracked down" on the practice?


Check the 66 car and tell me they aren't a S&P. There are 10 other examples that you can find if your interested. Don't forget to check laps run.

NASCAR tolerates S&P's because it's the only way to get a full field. It was done out in the open, with Brian Keselowski stating publicly that he was running a Cup S&P to fund his NW car. Fans complained, so NASCAR needed to act like they were doing something about it. Instead of simply saying that teams needed to have full pit crews and buy enough tires to complete the race, they said they would tear down engines of 'suspected' S&P's who left the race for no apparent reason. That's when S&P's started running a few more laps and then retiring with easily faked mechanical problems.

Apparently, it fooled some fans, but S&P still exists. These teams make $3,000,000 doing it with skeleton crews, 1 car, 1 engine and 36 sets of tires.
 
Laps run ? Are you including Carl Edwards 59/200..Pocono ? Junior 45/110...Savemart 350 ? Ambrose 72/267 Homestead ? Ruttiman 49/160 Brickyard ? Trevor Bayne 49/312 and (get this) 4/170 at Kentucky ? Maybe you should make a list of the guys you want to keep in the races .;)
 
FB your a nice guy and all but I don't think you have a clue what it takes or cost to build a team, a car, pit equipment, vehicles to transport it, entry fees, hotel and feeding your crew, hire a driver, buy some tires, fuel etc. Just so you can Hope Like Hell you can qualify into the big race and make a few bucks so you don't completely LOOSE YOUR ASS! If your REAL LUCKY you might even possibly impress someone who might kick in a few more Bucks so you can try again next week.

Where are you coming up with this 3 Million dollar figure anyway?
 
Laps run ? Are you including Carl Edwards 59/200..Pocono ? Junior 45/110...Savemart 350 ? Ambrose 72/267 Homestead ? Ruttiman 49/160 Brickyard ? Trevor Bayne 49/312 and (get this) 4/170 at Kentucky ? Maybe you should make a list of the guys you want to keep in the races .;)

I'm done talking to a guy who skirts questions after reading the proof.

FB your a nice guy and all but I don't think you have a clue what it takes or cost to build a team, a car, pit equipment, vehicles to transport it, entry fees, hotel and feeding your crew, hire a driver, buy some tires, fuel etc. Just so you can Hope Like Hell you can qualify into the big race and make a few bucks so you don't completely LOOSE YOUR ASS! If your REAL LUCKY you might even possibly impress someone who might kick in a few more Bucks so you can try again next week.

Where are you coming up with this 3 Million dollar figure anyway?

Look at the numbers I already posted for the 66 team.

Guys, if you want to have a discussion, use facts. I post a bunch, but you guys want to ignore them and make the same old arguments with nothing to back up what you say. I reall can't understand how Flflash is talking about crew expenses and tires if he actually read what I posted.

The FACTS are that Brian made enough PROFIT on his Cup S&P to fund his NW car.

Enough with the overly emotional arguments guys. Post some facts.
 
No really..I think the fender has something there. CHANGE THE RULES..If you don't run past lap 80 in the Daytona 500 ..you're out for the rest of the season. CHANGE THE RULES! CHANGE THE RULES ! CHANGE THE RULES !
 
I post..

"Enough with the overly emotional arguments guys."

....and this is what I get?


No really..I think the fender has something there. CHANGE THE RULES..If you don't run past lap 80 in the Daytona 500 ..you're out for the rest of the season. CHANGE THE RULES! CHANGE THE RULES ! CHANGE THE RULES !

lol
 
I'm done talking to a guy who skirts questions after reading the proof.



Look at the numbers I already posted for the 66 team.

Guys, if you want to have a discussion, use facts. I post a bunch, but you guys want to ignore them and make the same old arguments with nothing to back up what you say. I reall can't understand how Flflash is talking about crew expenses and tires if he actually read what I posted.

The FACTS are that Brian made enough PROFIT on his Cup S&P to fund his NW car.

Enough with the overly emotional arguments guys. Post some facts.

I guess I've completely overlooked these "Facts" you've somehow came up with and posted somewhere?
Would you please repost the ones that show How Much it cost to get a racecar together a crew together transport them, pay entry fees, fuel, feed and board your guys in preperation for hopefully qualifying your car???
I'm still a little mistified over this $4 million you've came up with also?
 
I guess I've completely overlooked these "Facts" you've somehow came up with and posted somewhere?
Would you please repost the ones that show How Much it cost to get a racecar together a crew together transport them, pay entry fees, fuel, feed and board your guys in preperation for hopefully qualifying your car???
I'm still a little mistified over this $4 million you've came up with also?

Wow. Re-read what I already posted, including the links, then get back to me some facts of your own.
 
Wow. Re-read what I already posted, including the links, then get back to me some facts of your own.

I've read your post and looked at your link and it's still obvious to me you don't know jack about what it cost to operate a race team.
 
I've read your post and looked at your link and it's still obvious to me you don't know jack about what it cost to operate a race team.

OK, so now you know I said $3 million, not $4 million? You also clicked the link, added the $'s and realize I'm right about how much a S&P can make for 36 races?

So, why don't you tell me something? How much does it cost to qualify one car at lets say, Martinsville?

Time to put up or shut up.
 
I just hope the 2012 elections go the right way and the economy quickly rebounds so we have enough sponsors to end the S&P issue.
 
I just hope the 2012 elections go the right way and the economy quickly rebounds so we have enough sponsors to end the S&P issue.

Me too. In the meantime, FlLash has promised to educate me so we can work out a solution together. ;)
 
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