Bigger accomplishment - 5 Time Consecutive Champion or 85 wins?

5 Time Consecutive or 85 wins

  • 5 Time

    Votes: 16 45.7%

  • 85 Wins

    Votes: 19 54.3%
  • Total voters
    35
buckaroo said:
We've seen it happen many times before when a team who doesn't have the best record win the title. Same for racing. But think about why the Chase was invented in the first place. It was the luckiest driver who won the title, certainly not the driver who won the most races. I can remember many years ago when well into the season, Dale Earnhardt, who had yet to win that season, told a reporter the he'd win the championship, even if he had to 2nd them to death. Now wouldn't that have made a few fans mad? And that was under the old system.
Click to expand...

And refresh my memory, how many titles did Earnhardt win without winning a race in that season? No disrespect intended but I think the idea that it was the luckiest driver that won the title is pure BS. It was the best driver over a long season of racing. This isn't a stick and ball sport where the title is based only on wins. You know that, You've been around a while.

The Chase was created for one thing and one thing only..... ratings. And it's failed miserably. It was such a drastic change that there was no way they could ever change back and save face. The only thing to do is to tweak it to the point where it is pleasing to most but not all fans. Every other year a new number of participants or a new gimmick are added to try to enhance a flawed idea. It would work perfectly if this were simply a win or no win situation like other sports but auto racing is like no other sport.
 
Dale Earnhardt never Won a Championship with out Wining a race?????? Am I missing something?

Matt Kenseth came closest to wining the championship without wining a race with only 1 Win in 2003.
 
buckaroo said:
Ya gotta get over the new format. Changes happen in every sport and while there are the "purists" who will never get over the changes, the sport moves on. How many purist baseball fans like the DH? Wild Card playoff teams? Wild Card in any sport? We've seen it happen many times before when a team who doesn't have the best record win the title. Same for racing. But think about why the Chase was invented in the first place. It was the luckiest driver who won the title, certainly not the driver who won the most races. I can remember many years ago when well into the season, Dale Earnhardt, who had yet to win that season, told a reporter the he'd win the championship, even if he had to 2nd them to death. Now wouldn't that have made a few fans mad? And that was under the old system.
Click to expand...

And what's wrong with that? If you can consistenly do well, no matter if you don't win a race and you have the most points, you should be the Champion. The Chase is a gimmicky way of creating drama, by rewarding everyone with something they shouldn't be getting.You want a playoff system in Nascar, take the top twelve and have them race only against each other. That would be like the other sports, they don't have a "playoff" while they are competing against ALL the other teams at the same time! The Chase was a joke from the start and it's credibility is diminishing every year with all the new tweaks they put into it every year. Nascar will never be able to compete with the NFL and NCAA in the fall. They need to get over it, accept it, put a better product on the track every week, and then maybe they would get some of their fans back and attract new ones. The Chase is not the answer.
 
dpk, excuse me, but how many drivers do you know that say they are points racers? None, though many of them are, especially at the end of the season. Yep, the champ is the one who has been the best/most consistant ALL year long. You can go ahead and say that JJ wasn't the most consistant driver all year long, but I beg to differ with you on that. The last year before the Chase, Matt Kenseth won the title especially because he was the luckiest driver on the circuit. Remember what the King said..."I'd rather be lucy than good". Racing is a crap shoot at times and there are many races throughout the year where the best driver doesn't win the race. How many times have we had threads where a driver wins a fuel race? How about a rain shortened race? And the Chase doesn't always go to the driver with the most wins. Remember when Kahne had 6 wins and didn't make the Chase?

Yes, I'm an old timer when it comes to racing, but I've kept up with the times. I know that I can't do a damned thing about how it's run and I also know that I can turn the damned TV off and quit griping about what I don't like. Compare your reply to mopar's. If you take my opinion, your's and mopar's, there are three differing opinions of where NASCAR is today.
 
buckaroo said:
dpk, excuse me, but how many drivers do you know that say they are points racers? None, though many of them are, especially at the end of the season. Yep, the champ is the one who has been the best/most consistant ALL year long. You can go ahead and say that JJ wasn't the most consistant driver all year long, but I beg to differ with you on that. The last year before the Chase, Matt Kenseth won the title especially because he was the luckiest driver on the circuit. Remember what the King said..."I'd rather be lucy than good". Racing is a crap shoot at times and there are many races throughout the year where the best driver doesn't win the race. How many times have we had threads where a driver wins a fuel race? How about a rain shortened race? And the Chase doesn't always go to the driver with the most wins. Remember when Kahne had 6 wins and didn't make the Chase?
Click to expand...

I'll certainly agree to disagree with you on that. You call it luck, I call it hard racing. Pre-Chase this sport had always been based on the best driver over a season long battle. For the most part that was lost with the implementation of the Chase.

Here's what I call luck..... 2004 - A driver 7th in points after 26 races, 293 points out of the top spot has his points deficit wiped out to a mere 30 points before a ten race shootout. He goes on to win the title by 8 points over his closest competitor. In actuality he scored 247 points less than the best driver that season. That's luck. That's the Chase. I don't like it but I have to live with it.

Oh, and Kasey Kahne..... He did make the Chase in 2006, the year he won 6 races. 5 of those 6 wins he won leading up to the Chase and one race was won during the Chase. He didn't do crap but he did make it.
 
Championships trump wins.
Theres a reason we refer to Jeff and Jimmy as 4 time, and 5 time, and not 85 time, and 54 time.
 
IMHO there's no answer that's more correct than the other. Winning 85 races is a major accomplishment. So is winning a championship 5 times. Winning 5 consecutive championships steps that accomplishment up a notch.
Is winning 5 in a row mo' better than winning 7 over 14 years?

This is a apples to oranges debate.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Oh, and Kasey Kahne..... He did make the Chase in 2006, the year he won 6 races. 5 of those 6 wins he won leading up to the Chase and one race was won during the Chase. He didn't do crap but he did make it.
Click to expand...

Yeah he squeaked in at Richmond then I think got wrecked at Dover and it was over.
 
Winning the championship is a great feat, but more individual race wins is more important, look at all the notoriety that Micheal Waltrip got when he got the fraudulent win at Daytona a few years back, you remember they gave him the win due to rain, even though there are lights at Daytona. and there was plenty of time to finish the race,, guess it is your name that sometimes gives you the advantage.
 
man i hate voting for jj but i don't deny his talent. you win 5 championships and there's bound to be a few wins in there. i look for him to end up 2nd on the all time winners list before he's done.
 
SlowNeasy said:
man i hate voting for jj but i don't deny his talent. you win 5 championships and there's bound to be a few wins in there. i look for him to end up 2nd on the all time winners list before he's done.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure he'll be able to surpase David Pearson with 105 Wins. Looking at J.J.s first 10 years with 54 so far, it's possible?
However I doubt J.J. will run for more than another 10 years and I've noticed drivers tend to fall off in the second half of their career. J.J.s always been more of a consistency driver than a Win at all cost driver butt who knows he could go on a Run anytime?
 
katiespapa said:
So who will be the next driver to win 5 in a row?
Click to expand...

I have no idea. It may never be done again, but that still doesn't mean that it would mean as much as winning it over the course of an entire season.

There is definitely more luck involved in winning a title under the playoff format. Under the old system, if you had a bad race or got caught in someone else's mistake and had your car totaled you still had 30+ races to make up the ground. If it happens in the playoffs, it is much harder to recover from. So simply having these things happen to several of your competitiors instead of you, has a much bigger impact on who wins a title now. Again, Jimmie has done what is required under the current system and it isn't his fault that NASCAR changed one of the best things about the sport.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom