Bring Our People Home!

kat2220

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Enough is enough. Please don't turn this into another Vietnam or Korea. This should not be our war.


BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A roadside bomb blast in the flashpoint Iraqi town of Falluja on Sunday killed two U.S. civilian contractors working for the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers and wounded one other, a Corp spokesman said.

After the bomb blast jubilant Iraqis danced on the flaming wreckage of the contractors' vehicles, witnesses in Falluja said.

Sixteen U.S. soldiers were also killed in Iraq on Sunday, 15 when a helicopter was shot down and one in a Baghdad bomb blast.
 

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We just need to finish the job, go door to door and take every weapon we find. Obviously our declared victory was B.S.
 
How do you fight a war if you don't know who your fighting,
 
This is becoming almost like Somalia, today 13 soldiers died when their Chinook was shot down, it's ridiculous, there are bombings and attacks on our soldiers. It's not foreign terrorists that are doing this, it's the Iraqi people, they dont want us there and they will never a slave to any foreign power.

This isnt progress like Bush says, if this is progress, then we dont want anymore of it. Please, pull out now while you can Mr. President. There is no good news, only bad.

Pull out our troops now, I dont want to see anymore of our men and women die, I dont want to see anymore fall into harms way.

Enough is enough.
 
Stay the course, Mr. President!

Finish the job that we set out to do!

If we pull out now, thousands will die.
 
We are wasting our time in Iraq. Iraq will never be a democracy. Look at other arab countries not one democracy. The Arab nations are govern by religon. And in their religon there is no room for democracy. In their religon based goverment only a chosen few have rights. If you are not one of the chosen few and buck up against the system then your a dead man or woman which ever comes first. Women have little or now rights. If your not Arab your a infidel. and your life don't matter anyway. :(

But on the other hand. If we pull out now. It wont be 6 months before Saddam and his thugs will be back in control and we will be right back where we started from.
 
what happened to the brits, why is only our guys dyin over there, there is always going to be troops over there now, just like korea and othr parts of the world. We should'nt of declared victory so soon, should of done more of cleaning house, gotta find saddam, as long as they think he's alive they have something to fight for.
 
The Brits are over there also and fighting and dying, most of news we hear is from the Amerian sector, the Polish and the British control the other sectors in Iraq. Some of the news I hear is that the British are losing just as many as the Americans are and are encumbered in the same situation.
 
What you people don't realize is the big picture . If we pull out now the sitaution will only become more grave than it was before the war. No one ever said this was going to be easy, fighting terrorism will take decades, it is not a 6 month fight. If we had done something like this back in the Clinton era we would have been that much more ahead of the game,but we stood back and pretty much did nothing. I applaud the pesident for standing up to the World , not backing down from criticism. We tend to only hear the bad things happening in Iraq.....we don't get much of the good news ( schools reopened, hospitals up and running,power back on, infrastucture being repaired) Most of the people in Iraq are very glad we are there. Those that aren't are all connected to Saadam. Once he is eliminated a lot of the organizational aggression towards our troops will not exist. Stay the course Mr. President.....God forbid another Democrat gets into office in 2004!
 
Mophar, you are right on the mark!

This is a long term fight against terrorism and fanaticism. If we turn our backs and walk way, we might as well decide to be a 2nd rate nation.

I am an unaffiliated political conservative and no big fan of George Bush, but he is doing what should have been done 10 years ago. Right now, I'd vote for him again because the other party has nothing to offer but fear and their constant playing of American citizens against each other. There is no vision!

Freedom is not free! Better to die fighting to be a free man rather than live as a slave!
 
Originally posted by Mopardh9@Nov 3 2003, 04:34 AM
What you people don't realize is the big picture . If we pull out now the sitaution will only become more grave than it was before the war. No one ever said this was going to be easy, fighting terrorism will take decades, it is not a 6 month fight. If we had done something like this back in the Clinton era we would have been that much more ahead of the game,but we stood back and pretty much did nothing. I applaud the pesident for standing up to the World , not backing down from criticism. We tend to only hear the bad things happening in Iraq.....we don't get much of the good news ( schools reopened, hospitals up and running,power back on, infrastucture being repaired) Most of the people in Iraq are very glad we are there. Those that aren't are all connected to Saadam. Once he is eliminated a lot of the organizational aggression towards our troops will not exist. Stay the course Mr. President.....God forbid another Democrat gets into office in 2004!
Given this boards very conservative stance on the issues, I am inclined to disagree. My brother is a soldier in the U.S Army and I've really come to respect and find friends and acquaintances within the 375th Chemical Company he's in. I love my country, I love the armed forces, I just dont like what the President is using them for and what the President has done over the past few months.

Firstly, I dont think the Iraq people really like what we are doing in Iraq, if they like us, why are they killing our troops? Why are Iraqi men, women and children taking up weapons and killing our troops? There is no good news from Iraq, was there any good news from Somalia? No, was there any good news from Vietnam? No, because we were getting attacked constantly. There is no good news from Iraq, those schools, hospitals and homes, can they replace the human lives we are losing right now? Hell No. We cant even build homes, schools and hospitals at home the way things are going. And there are Republicans who think that incidents like suicide bombs and attacks on American Soldiers are "progress"

Ha, I loathe the person who says that's progress and that person is President Bush. The Administration could build all the schools, hospitals and things they want and tell their buddies like Scarborough, Hannity and O'Reilly to brainwash the media and public into thinking that Iraq is a happy go-lucky place with leprauchauns dancing about and pots of gold laying in the hills. We may have crushed the Iraqi Army and pushed Hussein out, but now the Iraqis are rebelling, now we're in a quagmire and men and women of our armed forces are being killed every single day, we're not hunting them anymore, it's us that are being hunted, one by one. Bring back any memories of Vietnam? Somalia? I think Bush cant accept the fact that he's dug the American public into a hole it wont get out of within the forseeable future and will cover it up by landing a lousy f-18 on some damn carrier and saying "The war is over." You cant help but just laugh at the man.

Bring our troops home, you've crushed Hussein now, you've settled your score Bush, now bring our troops home, let the other countries and the UN deal with it. Besides, the Iraqis will never ever accept American democracy one way or another. He can still make up with our allies whom he pissed off during the war. and ask them to help in rebuilding in Iraq.

However, if things go as they go, I hope someone replaces Bush, and it better happen soon. :salute:
 
I have to agree with Happy. I don't know how the Bush administration can declare mission accomplished in this situation. More soldiers have died since the end of "war". I know that we DO NOT control certain areas of Iraq. The soldiers face 20-30 attacks a day. Its a war zone. Nothing has changed from the first day of the invasion to present. I know a few people who have been there and have come back. They say the people there cannot be trusted. You have them saying they love America, then go back in there houses and polish thier rifles.

I support the war, but I think we were way too nice. It is being run as a politically correct war and that is wrong. The people in that region do not value human life as we do. They still chop off arms for stealing. They still throw people off buildings, run them over with tanks. We courtmartial a colonel who shoots a bullet next to an Iraqi prisoner who knows of plans to attack American troops.

Like I said, I support the war, support our troops, but I do not like the way the administration us handling this. But what choice do we have?
 
Everybody has a opinion. Some for Bush some against. But the real opinion will be voiced at the ballot box next Nov. That is the only one that really matters. :D
 
amen mopar, but I'm afraid bush will not get reelected and a democrat will get in office and screw things up, Yea I can hear you bush-haters now "bush is doing a pretty good job scrwing things up now, Well I hate to tell ya but he's tryin to fix the screw-ups clinton did.
 
Yeh right on on the Clinton screw ups...as for the "war is over thing" Bush had nothing to do with that. It was the people on the ship that put that sign up! Once again i humbly disagree with those people that think a Democrat can actually do a better job. Yes there are some very good things happening in Iraq....it is the biased media that only portrays the bad in news and tends to over inflate the negativity. To all you Democrats out there ,who in your Party could do the job ....there isn't a credible candidate out there running right now. Do we really want to return to Clinton era....if Hillary decides to run, which by all indications she just might? All i can say is think about all the screw ups in the Clinton presidency....one that comes to mind is China.....all the info that got out that shouldn't have and now China has it. I could go on for days , but all i have to say is we made the Mistake back in '92 , the nation thought the same thing about Senior Busch.....it sure the hell wasn't any better off when Clinton got elected. ;)
 
Credible candidate? What about John Kerry who actually had active military duty? Or former Army General Wesley Clark, both men who actually served in Vietnam and had meritorious tours of duty?

I for one think the nation is better of with either a Republican or a Democrat, as long as it's neither of the Shrubs who've screwed up more times than Tony Stewart's Engine Department. What screw ups in Clinton's presidency? Last I checked lying about cheating is a lot better off then lying to the country about getting American Soldiers killed and "getting the job done"
 
Heres some news from MSNBC:

31 DEAD IN A WEEK

The latest confirmed U.S. military fatalities bring to at least 31 the number of soldiers killed in action in the first week of November. The largest tally came when an Army Chinook helicopter was shot down last Sunday.

On Thursday a soldier injured in the crash died, taking the death toll to 16.

In addition, two American civilians working for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and a Polish officer died in attacks over the past seven days.

Since U.S. President Bush declared major combat over <_< on May 1, 146 soldiers have been killed in action in Iraq.

If Friday’s helicopter incident is confirmed to have been an attack, it would be the third U.S. chopper shot down in two weeks.

On Oct. 25, guerrillas brought down a Black Hawk in Tikrit with a rocket-propelled grenade. The helicopter made an emergency landing, and all five crew members escaped before it was engulfed in flames.

The spate of attacks in the past week in Mosul, Iraq’s third-largest city, has raised concerns among U.S. military commanders that the insurgency is spreading into that region from its main stronghold in the so-called Sunni Triangle, to the west and north of Baghdad.

The city is close to the semiautonomous Kurdish areas that lie between it and the Turkish border
 
31 dead in a week? Man, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better!
 
So what is your point ? 31 dead is a shame , but this is a war! People die in a war, it is going to happen....take our people out of there and it will be just like Afghanistan when the the Russians left. All sorts of terrorists will claim a stake there. Kerry isn't a good candidate IMO, just because he had militarty experience does that mean he knows what he is doing? Clintons' foreign policy was horrible , look at the mess he got us into in N.Korea,he not only lied he was tied to many illegal business dealings...fine upstanding citizen...lol! Busch will finish what he started, then it will be on to the other countries that harbor and encourage terrorist. Do you Dems out ther really think they will go away if we just ignore them like Clinton did??? This type of thinking resulted in 9/11. Like i said before this isn't going to take just a few years to clean up, it most likely will take decades, but it needs to be done so our children and their children alike can live in freedom and not have to fear another 9/11 !!
 
This is a war, I know yes and I understand the point you are making and some points I agree with others I particularly dont, people die in war. But these soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines are dying because of the failed policies of our President. We dont have help from our foreign allies because Bush told them to kiss off. It's a quagmire, and we're in it for the long haul, we're getting involved more overseas then we are at home with this administration. The point I'm making is, many soldiers are dying each and every day while President Bush says "mission accomplished" and "this is only progress"

Clinton's Foreign Policy was a shame? Look at Bush, he and Cheney have had illegal business dealings, he pissed off the entire U.N convention, Russia hates us, the French hate us, the Chinese hate us, the only country we have thats definitely on our side is Cameroon, which in its entirety has only a 10 man army. Now Halliburton, Cheney's company is allowed into the country of Iraq and begins jacking up oil prices, thats a helluva lot worse business dealings to me. If Clinton's foreign policy was horrible, then Bush's is a helluva lot worse. As for the freedom part, dont get me started, yes our men and women are fighting for freedom I agree with that, but this administration is undermining their sacrifices by it's new patriot act and witch hunt for arabs who a majority of them are innocent or havent even been given a fair trial. The actions of the administration remind me of the Joseph McCarthy era. We have a lesser rights now then we did coming into the war.
 
Wow Happy i respect your opinion,but i think you are very misguided. It is OPEC who controls the price of oil in the world not the Busch administration. Do you really think the French would help in this situation, possibly just like they did before huh....selling all those weapons to Iraq, they were only in it for the money. A witch hunt for Arabs, i don't quite understand that statement, we are hunting terrorists some may be Arabs ....does that eqivocate a witch hunt? Explain to me how we have lesser rights now? We are fighting to keep our rights and our freedom. I'm not going to argue this to exhaustion, but i will say 1 more thing. Allowing another democrat into the Presidency will hurt this country to the point where it may not recover.
 
Originally posted by Mopardh9@Nov 7 2003, 12:03 PM
Why you staying out of it Bowtie?
Because people with the views of Happy are the reason that the country is in this mess to begin with and like you said that is an arguement that has ben hashed over and over as long as there has been political parties and there is no winner so I just try to stay out of them.
 
It's clear to me that bowtie has blinders on,Bush is a freaking puppet to Cheney.
235070-S-1.jpg


Hey bowtie have you ever heard of the Project for a New American Century? Know who it's members are? What the statement of principles are? I think you need to go take a look.
 
Originally posted by bowtie+Nov 7 2003, 10:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bowtie @ Nov 7 2003, 10:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Mopardh9@Nov 7 2003, 12:03 PM
Why you staying out of it Bowtie?
Because people with the views of Happy are the reason that the country is in this mess to begin with and like you said that is an arguement that has ben hashed over and over as long as there has been political parties and there is no winner so I just try to stay out of them. [/b][/quote]
No Bow, not my views that are putting the country into a craphole, it's yours and Bushs. It's Bush that made our American soldiers die for nothing, die in a desert with no hope, why do conservatives blame democrats for their problems? Dont know why. Damn republican whiners I guess, cant face up to the fact that they said "mission accomplished" yet American soldiers continue to die. Bowtie, you're the one thats blinded here and its people like you that got this country in it's mess to begin with. Nice insult by the way, do you do that all the time when youre faced with an argument, or is it a conservative thing? Last I checked my views didnt support getting American soldiers killed for a worthless cause.
 
Originally posted by Happy29+Nov 7 2003, 09:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Happy29 @ Nov 7 2003, 09:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by -bowtie@Nov 7 2003, 10:16 AM
<!--QuoteBegin--Mopardh9
@Nov 7 2003, 12:03 PM
Why you staying out of it Bowtie?

Because people with the views of Happy are the reason that the country is in this mess to begin with and like you said that is an arguement that has ben hashed over and over as long as there has been political parties and there is no winner so I just try to stay out of them.
No Bow, not my views that are putting the country into a craphole, it's yours and Bushs. It's Bush that made our American soldiers die for nothing, die in a desert with no hope, why do conservatives blame democrats for their problems? Dont know why. Damn republican whiners I guess, cant face up to the fact that they said "mission accomplished" yet American soldiers continue to die. Bowtie, you're the one thats blinded here and its people like you that got this country in it's mess to begin with. Nice insult by the way, do you do that all the time when youre faced with an argument, or is it a conservative thing? Last I checked my views didnt support getting American soldiers killed for a worthless cause. [/b][/quote]
I dont know why Hap, but these guys throw out insults whenever they know theyre losing a debate. :p
 
I regret the fact that I will be exactly nine days too young to help vote the "President" (If you want to call somebody who didn't recieve the majority of the votes by that name) out of office.
 
Time to break down one of Mopardh9's post :dual9mm:

"Wow Happy i respect your opinion,but i think you are very misguided. It is OPEC who controls the price of oil in the world not the Busch administration. Do you really think the French would help in this situation, possibly just like they did before huh....selling all those weapons to Iraq, they were only in it for the money."

Who put Sadaam in power? Who sold weapons to Iraq to kill Iranians during the war between those two countries? Who then sold weapons to Iran to kill Iraqis? :salute:

"A witch hunt for Arabs, i don't quite understand that statement, we are hunting terrorists some may be Arabs ....does that eqivocate a witch hunt?"

How is this relevant to the war in Iraq? Even the White House has said that there is no connection between Al Qaeda, the 9/11 attacks and Sadaam's regime.

"Explain to me how we have lesser rights now? We are fighting to keep our rights and our freedom."

Lesser Rights? You bet. Have you read about the Patriot Act? I don't want to explain it all so here is a link to the whole thing http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html .

"I'm not going to argue this to exhaustion, but i will say 1 more thing. Allowing another democrat into the Presidency will hurt this country to the point where it may not recover."

I actually agree with you. I despise political parties, all they do is ensure that representatives vote for what benifits their party, not vote for what is best for their constituents. What this country needs is a viable third party candidate to rally around and take back what was stolen and is rightfully ours: THE WHITE HOUSE.
 
Ok i never insulted anyone here so lets get that out of the way first. Gordon24fan: GW didn't sell weapons or put Sadaam in power, true America helped do those things in the past,kind learned our lesson there. As far as the Patriot act : that is to help insure we will have freedom in the future i for one don't have a problem with it ,why would i ....it is enacted to deter terrorism. The way i look at it i have nothing to hide so what is the big deal. There happens to be terrorists in Iraq that are Arabs,so that is why it is relevant to what is going on in Iraq. A viable third party candidate won't happen....i'm all for different opinions and views on how this country should be run as long as it isn't liberal. Like Bowtie said, the younger people of this board just don't seem to understand . Hopefully you guys will see the light one day. :D :cheers:
 
Oh yeah and the conservative view of things is correct? B.S
All the cons want is a police state, oil and death. Hopefully someone kicks out this "compassionate conservative" cowboy, more like a compassionate loon out of the White House. Right is wrong, left is right :) .

Anyway, Happy, what will the conservatives call you next ?
 
Originally posted by Coffee Warlord@Nov 8 2003, 10:47 AM
Oh yeah and the conservative view of things is correct? B.S
All the cons want is a police state, oil and death. Hopefully someone kicks out this "compassionate conservative" cowboy, more like a compassionate loon out of the White House. Right is wrong, left is right  :) .

Anyway, Happy, what will the conservatives call you next ?
The conservatives will probably say I should contract AIDS and die. :lol:

The conservatives have done a lot of things over the years like limit free speech, try to ban abortion, try to bomb certain third world countries and everywhere else, now theyre trying to limit everything.

Now certain members of this forum who are conservative are trying to limit my freedom of speech on the board. They think the liberal or moderate view is out of touch with the American people, and my views and myself will suffer as a consequence of it. However, how many more votes were there for Gore than Bush in 2000?

Tell me, am I so out of touch that 50 million others agree with me? What about a couple of other distinguished members of this forum? I feel like Michael Moore, after September 11th his books release was limited because of "the country is behind Bush" now, Michael Moore's books are more popular than ever. Why? Because America will never become a slave to the evils of the conservative wing. The American people may not know whats going on all the time, but one day they will rise to the occasion and defend their rights on Capitol Hill.

The truth is, like Michael Moore and many others I am angry that 3000 people died on September 11th and more in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq so President Bush could turn this entire country into New Texas, and turn Iraq into Neo Houston. I didnt know them, but now their sacrifices have been turned into an excuse for Bush to undermine our rights, our freedom, our privacy. Now I'll be labeled a "traitor" or a slanderous person because I am a moderate leaning towards the left? Thats the most BS statement Ive heard, and it comes from members of this forum which I am apart.

I am more patriotic than any of you. Anyone whos on the democratic party is as patriotic as any of you and I hope you all understand that. God bless our Troops, God Bless our Country and God bless America.
 
This debate has been going on since America was a baby and will contimue to go on. The Electoral Collsage elects the Presdent not the popular vote. It has happen before that a Presdent has been elected and not have the popular vote. Just a thought. :D
 
Happy, Warlord, I did not see anyone call you anything other than young, which you are. I am a democrat. albeit a conservitave one and I take great offense to your "more patriotic than any of you" statement. how dare you assume that you are more anything than anyone else here! This war is absolutly necessary. Sept. 11, 2001 is the proof. this was not the first attack on Americans, it was not even the first attack on our own soil, remember the first trade center attack? how many destroyed Buildings and dead bodies do we need before we defend ourselves? if we do not stop the terrorist now, we never will be able to.

Now before you start informing me how wrong I am, just take into concideration that I have an extremely biased point of view. first, of the thousands of people murdered on 9-11-01, 343 were Firefighters. 22 of those Firefighters were personal friends of mine. the devistation was so complete at the trade center that we could not even find all my pals. one we only found his hand lite. if I ever go back to N.Y. I will have alot more time for sight seeing now, thanks to mr. sodamn insane and his group. This has left me Angry, Bitter, Sad, Helpless, and quite intolerant of those who want to go back to the way it was prior to 9-11. those days are gone. we are at war. and while I do not agree with most anything else that Dubbya has done, this war against those who would drive up my street and shoot me because I am an American if they could has all my support as do all the Armed Forces Personell.

Now, the second reason for my bias is that I am a Firefighter in an urban area. I see alerts and warnings for chemical agents and possible acts that are expected almost daily. if you think that there has been no activity in our country or even in other countries (outside of Iraq) you are incorrect. the terrorist have painted a target on us and intend to hit the bullseye.

Now that I have vented a little, let me say this. I do not agree with your opinion. however I do absolutly admire your interest in topics such as politics and current events at your young age. I see too many young citizens who will not even bother to vote! so, keep an open mind boys, and remember, more flies are cought with honey than vinigar.
 
Don't forget the bombing in Bayruit (sp) where we lost over 200 men. and the USS Cole. :angry:
 
Beirut, the year it was I forget on that one. We lost the USS Cole when it was refueling off of Yemen in 2000.

Really, I could care less about my age. It's not age that determines and dictates your beliefs. Bill Press is damn well old, he's a democrat, there are many people of all ages who are democrats or liberals or moderates for that matter.

But I meant to say democrats and liberals are just as patriotic as any of you I didnt mean to promote myself or the democrats any higher than anyone, I meant to prove that theyre also patriotic and loyal to the country and many have also fought and died serving the country, but in my previous posts I meant to combat they how other members of this forum and some conservatives demean the liberals and moderates of todays society. Some conservatives on the forum, not all however always think theyre right and that their opinion is the only one that matters, and anyone else who differs in opinion they either throw an insult at or dismiss their opinion as stupidity.

Well, I'm done as far as this threads concerned. I'll let you all debate it to yourselves, I'm not sorry I ranted on, I'm only defending my values however I understand the people on the other end of the political spectrum defended theirs as well, however they couldve done it without throwing out an insult in the middle of a political debate, so I'm done as this threads concerned.
 
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