sloggie
Racing I will teach you
It's pretty obvious to most of the hardcore fans that the first 300 laps don't mean much of anything with all the lucky dogs and waive arounds. I'm sure the young folks realize that too, and are turned off by it.
Bruton Smith: NASCAR may have to scrap the Chase
- Thread starter HoneyBadger
- Start date
It's pretty obvious to most of the hardcore fans that the first 300 laps don't mean much of anything with all the lucky dogs and waive arounds. I'm sure the young folks realize that too, and are turned off by it.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
Every lap matters. 
What do you suggest? Should there just be a 30 lap shootout each week? If people out there are that bored with racing, maybe this sport isn't for them.
What do you suggest? Should there just be a 30 lap shootout each week? If people out there are that bored with racing, maybe this sport isn't for them.
sloggie
Racing I will teach you
Every lap does matter. It's just that the first 80% mean very little, and the last 20% mean a lot. There are too many times that guys go two laps down, get a waive around, a lucky dog, and are back on the lead lap.Every lap matters.
I don't think there is a magic bullet for this problem. I would get rid of the lucky dog rule, and I would have the lap not count for waive arounds. I don't know if either is viable.
Think long and hard on this, because this is exactly what the young folks are doing. They watch, get bored, and decide this isn't the sport for them.
Without a fix, NASCAR heads the same route as Open Wheel Racing.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
While the lucky dog rule is relatively new but the act of awarding the lap back isn't. It pretty much always been a charitable position to get that lap back. Before the rule they never really raced for it; the leader allowed it. He would slow down to let those guys back onto the lap. It's all who you knew or who wasn't pi$$ed off at you.
Again, if they are bored with the laps, this sport is not for them and it never was.
Open wheel racing..... Don't they have an exclusive with Versus? They don't have the same amount of fans but yet they seem to exist. If the sport has to be knocked down a few pegs or more, so be it. It existed quite well years ago before the influx of ADD fans and it'll be around after they are gone. I can complain as much as the next guy about empty seats or declining ratings but maybe, just maybe the sport is going through the self adjustment that it needs. Bruton and the likes overbuilt. Maybe we need to get back down to size?
Again, if they are bored with the laps, this sport is not for them and it never was.
Open wheel racing..... Don't they have an exclusive with Versus? They don't have the same amount of fans but yet they seem to exist. If the sport has to be knocked down a few pegs or more, so be it. It existed quite well years ago before the influx of ADD fans and it'll be around after they are gone. I can complain as much as the next guy about empty seats or declining ratings but maybe, just maybe the sport is going through the self adjustment that it needs. Bruton and the likes overbuilt. Maybe we need to get back down to size?
S
SST55
Guest
Go a lap down you stay a lap down, unless you race your way back to the lead lap.
Seems like every 'improvement' brain's made has been "detrimental to the sport..."
Seems like every 'improvement' brain's made has been "detrimental to the sport..."
sloggie
Racing I will teach you
The Versus broadcasts get between 100,000 and 200,000 viewers. Shows like "Hannah Montana" reruns and "Spongebob Squarepants" routinely get hire ratings. The only reason it still exists is that the Hulman family was willing to absorb million in losses to protect the Indy 500. It's pretty bad, and it's questionable if Indy care will survive.
They hired away the CEO of a Rodeo series to turn things around.
M
Mopardh9
Guest
Yep...agreed, shorten the races, we've bantered this around for awhile, seems to me to be the logical solution.
M
Mopardh9
Guest
Car counts continue to dwindle too, last time I watched an Indy car race other than the 500, the stands were not even close to being a quarter full. How they pay all the purses, employees of Indy Car, and all the safety workers is beyond me. It has to be losing money?
Whizzer
Gig'em
Fans drive the sport but it was fans who whined when Matt Kenseth became the champion without winning a race. Now, we have the chase, new points system, and toss in the guaranteed, provisional and past champion starting positions, the lucky dog, and these are all things adding to the loss of and disappointment of long time fans.
Want to race? Qualify on time. Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart or Kevin Harvick can't make the field on time, go home! And why should Terry LaBonte (1996) or Bill Elliott (1988) get preferential treatment for winning a championship fifteen or twenty-three years ago. If you start 42 cars, make 42 cars qualify on time.
And that silly lucky dog rule. What a bunch of crap. Half the fun of watching a race was to see a fast car or wily driver fight to get their lap back.
NASCAR is coming full circle. Track owners got too greedy charging more for tickets and parking. They built more grandstands thinking, "if I build it they will come." But they didn't come. It is to big and to expensive. NASCAR began dying when the likes of Jimmy Means, Dave Marcis and Brett Bodine were forced out of the sport. The independent competitor no longer stands a chance and all the recent changes are making NASCAR less inviting to both new and old fans.
Want to race? Qualify on time. Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart or Kevin Harvick can't make the field on time, go home! And why should Terry LaBonte (1996) or Bill Elliott (1988) get preferential treatment for winning a championship fifteen or twenty-three years ago. If you start 42 cars, make 42 cars qualify on time.
And that silly lucky dog rule. What a bunch of crap. Half the fun of watching a race was to see a fast car or wily driver fight to get their lap back.
NASCAR is coming full circle. Track owners got too greedy charging more for tickets and parking. They built more grandstands thinking, "if I build it they will come." But they didn't come. It is to big and to expensive. NASCAR began dying when the likes of Jimmy Means, Dave Marcis and Brett Bodine were forced out of the sport. The independent competitor no longer stands a chance and all the recent changes are making NASCAR less inviting to both new and old fans.
M
Mopardh9
Guest
VaDirt
Dirt Track Fanatic
Kenseth didn't win the champioship without winning a race. He won once. Almost as bad, but he did at least win one.
Agreed. Although I do beleive that one (two at the most) provisional should be available for someone who's, say, in the top 10 in points and either just has a bad run or a mechaincal issue or something else that hampers his qualifying lap.
Yup, that's the main reason you see so many empty seats. During the growth of the 90s, the track owners built bigger grandstands, the rich car owners built bigger teams. Prices of competition and admission went way out of reach. And here we are...
Bucky Badger
Go Kyle Go
buckaroo
Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Yep, fans do drive the sport, but sponsors are the ones who pay for it. As I said before, you have to satisfy both for the sport to flourish. Scene Daily has a great article on this subject... http://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles/sprintcupseries/Fixing_NASCAR_A_plan_for_re-energizing_NASCARs_fan_base_revitalizing_growth_of_the_sport.html It's going to take a while before any of this is fixed. New fans, old fans, and keeping them is the problem. But keeping teams is as important as the fans.
S
speedwayphoto
Guest
personally its a funny situation.... the competition is better, more cars capable of winnin, etc, yet the fans are fallin off. Personally I say give it a few years.... then all the fad riders that liked NASCAR has moved on, the get rich quick sposors are gone, and maybe Brian will sober up, or turn over the reigns.... then the sport will be back to those who loved it.... and did it for the love. And maybe, just maybe, Detroit will build a car to stand up for itself...... until then, yea, I will still watch.... but I will be goin to more dirt races.
1
#17D500winner
Guest
There's still no guaruntee that a winless driver wont be the champ nor does the driver with the most wins get the cup - as we've seen lately.
Jamie Macmurray wins 3 times last year and doesn't even make the chase and the claim is that there's more emphasis on winning?
Jamie Macmurray wins 3 times last year and doesn't even make the chase and the claim is that there's more emphasis on winning?
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I guess that's why they made the Jamie McMurray rule for the upcoming season.
As far as a winless driver winning the championship..... If/when it ever happens, rest assured that they'll get the pencil out and write up that new rule too.
Whizzer
Gig'em
Just because Roger Penske was a leading critic doesn't mean he propelled the issue to the forefront. NASCAR had been investigating potential changes for some time as fans wanted more excitement. The change was implemented in response to fans whose howls of protest after Kenseth was crowned champion. NASCAR made the change for the fans more than to pacify Roger Penske.
buckaroo
Here kitty, kitty, kitty
As I mentioned earlier, the fans more than likely were the reason for the change, and now they are howling that they want the old way back. Hard to satisfy all the people.