Cousin Carl Edwards will be on Race Hub

cheesepuffs said:
Beloved Ford? He got a Roush deal, he wasn't seeking out to drive a Ford. Same with JGR drivers, or any racecar drivers - they just want the best equipment and best pay they can get. None of the drivers actually care what manufacturer branding is on the car, they're just a paid ambassador.
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I don't agree. While there are some examples of that....Harvick is one....there are those who are deep into their manufacturer for a lot of reasons. Now, don't get me wrong, I would agree that manufacturer loyalty would be different for a driver than some cool dude in a TRD hat, but that loyalty exists. Let's take KFB for example, while I cringe every time I see him in his custom Chevy truck, Toyota is deep into KBM both with technical assistance from TRD and feeding drivers from the Driver Development Program. The argument could be made that this is part of his "pay," but this is a different level of OEM loyalty.

Carl was deep with Ford, and Toyota knew it. When he came, he was allowed to come to the terms of his PSA on his own timeline per David Wilson. Toyota knew that Carl was not the face of Toyota, but of Ford. Carl had relationships there, and he went where he could win and, yeah, make a ton of money as Roush was in the midst of a fire sale. Carl's timer on Cup tolerance had been ticking for quite some time I think. He was looking for the ultimate exit show.
 
Greg said:
No amount of money or creature comforts will ever buy you more time.
Maybe Carl just saw the faces and eyes of his two little children that needed him more than his own personal ambitions.
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Did those kids go with him as he sailed the world? Doubtful. He still has personal ambitions.
 
jaqua19 said:
And that there, imo is enough to put away all the conspiracy nonsense about why he left.

Another Championship lost certainly stung, but at the end of the day, he probably was satisfied, realized he can afford what he wants, and just wasn't enjoying racing at the cup level.


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I cannot imagine a HOFer satisfied with second. Can't see Dale Sr. ever feeling this way. Carl is his own man, and as I have stated, a complete enigma. His priorities are elsewhere which makes it good that he is elsewhere.
 
Revman said:
I don't agree. While there are some examples of that....Harvick is one....there are those who are deep into their manufacturer for a lot of reasons. Now, don't get me wrong, I would agree that manufacturer loyalty would be different for a driver than some cool dude in a TRD hat, but that loyalty exists. Let's take KFB for example, while I cringe every time I see him in his custom Chevy truck, Toyota is deep into KBM both with technical assistance from TRD and feeding drivers from the Driver Development Program. The argument could be made that this is part of his "pay," but this is a different level of OEM loyalty.

Carl was deep with Ford, and Toyota knew it. When he came, he was allowed to come to the terms of his PSA on his own timeline per David Wilson. Toyota knew that Carl was not the face of Toyota, but of Ford. Carl had relationships there, and he went where he could win and, yeah, make a ton of money as Roush was in the midst of a fire sale. Carl's timer on Cup tolerance had been ticking for quite some time I think. He was looking for the ultimate exit show.
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This is delusional. Kyle Busch does not have a "different level" of brand loyalty to Toyota. Everything about this is a transactional relationship and nothing more. It's business decisions.

I just want to point out that Toyota is a mega corporation that does not know your name or personally care about you. They're just a capitalistic money machine like any other. Where does your inclination to treat Toyota as a family member stem from?
 
cheesepuffs said:
This is delusional. Kyle Busch does not have a "different level" of brand loyalty to Toyota. Everything about this is a transactional relationship and nothing more. It's business decisions.

I just want to point out that Toyota is a mega corporation that does not know your name or personally care about you. They're just a capitalistic money machine like any other. Where does your inclination to treat Toyota as a family member stem from?
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:lurk:
 
Revman said:
I don't agree. While there are some examples of that....Harvick is one....there are those who are deep into their manufacturer for a lot of reasons. Now, don't get me wrong, I would agree that manufacturer loyalty would be different for a driver than some cool dude in a TRD hat, but that loyalty exists. Let's take KFB for example, while I cringe every time I see him in his custom Chevy truck, Toyota is deep into KBM both with technical assistance from TRD and feeding drivers from the Driver Development Program. The argument could be made that this is part of his "pay," but this is a different level of OEM loyalty.

Carl was deep with Ford, and Toyota knew it. When he came, he was allowed to come to the terms of his PSA on his own timeline per David Wilson. Toyota knew that Carl was not the face of Toyota, but of Ford. Carl had relationships there, and he went where he could win and, yeah, make a ton of money as Roush was in the midst of a fire sale. Carl's timer on Cup tolerance had been ticking for quite some time I think. He was looking for the ultimate exit show.
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Dale Earnhardt and Chevy comes to mind. Also Gordon and Chevy etc.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Dale died blocking for P3. It happens.
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That was probably the only time Dale actually WAS satisfied with 2nd OR 3rd, because it was his car, and his son. I believe he could have easily beat them if he wanted to (and obviously probably would still be alive if he had).
 
Dale Sr. was a GM guy, Dale Jr. is a GM guy, Jeff Gordon is a GM guy, Jimmie Johnson is a GM guy. Yates was all Ford, Roush is all Ford, the Woods are all Ford. I truly think there are guys that are still brand loyal, but everyone has their price. Look at Tony jumping to Ford and Carl jumping to Toyota. If business and loyalty don't mesh, business usually wins.

I agree with Rev as far as Carl is concerned. That guy was hardcore Ford but at the end of his career, getting a title shot was more important than his ties to Ford. If he intended on racing for another decade, I don't think he would have signed with Gibbs. I think he would have stayed at Roush until a better ride with another Ford team opened up.
 
I'll agree to it if DW comes back to say Concrete Karl...q...q.....diiteyheeeeeeeeee
 
2 Sweet said:
Dale Sr. was a GM guy, Dale Jr. is a GM guy, Jeff Gordon is a GM guy, Jimmie Johnson is a GM guy. Yates was all Ford, Roush is all Ford, the Woods are all Ford. I truly think there are guys that are still brand loyal, but everyone has their price. Look at Tony jumping to Ford and Carl jumping to Toyota. If business and loyalty don't mesh, business usually wins.

I agree with Rev as far as Carl is concerned. That guy was hardcore Ford but at the end of his career, getting a title shot was more important than his ties to Ford. If he intended on racing for another decade, I don't think he would have signed with Gibbs. I think he would have stayed at Roush until a better ride with another Ford team opened up.
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Jimmie is such a GM guy that he's driving a Honda this year in IndyCar instead of a Chevy. Carl was such a Ford loyalist that FoMoCo offered him Ford stock as part of an offer to stay at Roush and he still didn't take it.

Regarding Jeff and Dale Sr and Jr, Dale Sr was close to leaving RCR to drive the 88 Ford Quality Care Thunderbird in the 90s. Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr like GM because GM paid/pays them bundles of money. If Junior had moved to Gibbs instead of Hendrick and then Gibbs went to Toyota still then Junior would be a Toyota guy. That's just how it is. Look at Mark Martin and how he seemed like a dedicated Ford guy too, until better opportunities came knocking and then funny how it doesn't matter anymore.

The drivers are not "fans" of a brand, they are paid professionals. They do not love Ford or GM or Toyota, they create a symbiotic relationship with a brand that benefits both of them for a period of time defined by a contract. Look at Tony Stewart taking Ford's money to switch his team over from Chevy. Again, a GM guy until the money comes flowing and the opportunity is better. It's just business and marketing, nothing more.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Jimmie is such a GM guy that he's driving a Honda this year in IndyCar instead of a Chevy. Carl was such a Ford loyalist that FoMoCo offered him Ford stock as part of an offer to stay at Roush and he still didn't take it.

Regarding Jeff and Dale Sr and Jr, Dale Sr was close to leaving RCR to drive the 88 Ford Quality Care Thunderbird in the 90s. Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr like GM because GM paid/pays them bundles of money. If Junior had moved to Gibbs instead of Hendrick and then Gibbs went to Toyota still then Junior would be a Toyota guy. That's just how it is. Look at Mark Martin and how he seemed like a dedicated Ford guy too, until better opportunities came knocking and then funny how it doesn't matter anymore.

The drivers are not "fans" of a brand, they are paid professionals. They do not love Ford or GM or Toyota, they create a symbiotic relationship with a brand that benefits both of them for a period of time defined by a contract. Look at Tony Stewart taking Ford's money to switch his team over from Chevy. Again, a GM guy until the money comes flowing and the opportunity is better. It's just business and marketing, nothing more.
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They’re brand loyal as long as the checks keep coming and getting cashed. And there is nothing wrong with that, big time racing is a business.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Jimmie is such a GM guy that he's driving a Honda this year in IndyCar instead of a Chevy. Carl was such a Ford loyalist that FoMoCo offered him Ford stock as part of an offer to stay at Roush and he still didn't take it.

Regarding Jeff and Dale Sr and Jr, Dale Sr was close to leaving RCR to drive the 88 Ford Quality Care Thunderbird in the 90s. Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr like GM because GM paid/pays them bundles of money. If Junior had moved to Gibbs instead of Hendrick and then Gibbs went to Toyota still then Junior would be a Toyota guy. That's just how it is. Look at Mark Martin and how he seemed like a dedicated Ford guy too, until better opportunities came knocking and then funny how it doesn't matter anymore.

The drivers are not "fans" of a brand, they are paid professionals. They do not love Ford or GM or Toyota, they create a symbiotic relationship with a brand that benefits both of them for a period of time defined by a contract. Look at Tony Stewart taking Ford's money to switch his team over from Chevy. Again, a GM guy until the money comes flowing and the opportunity is better. It's just business and marketing, nothing more.
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Hell, Jimmie is so Hendrick Motorsports that his sponsor is now Carvana - a direct competitor to all of the Hendrick car dealerships.

Money talks.
 
Snappy D said:
They’re brand loyal as long as the checks keep coming and getting cashed. And there is nothing wrong with that, big time racing is a business.
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And that's what some fans can't get through their heads is that the professionals within the sport do not view these things the same as the spectators do.

The brand loyalty where fans pick manufacturers or brands of different products (say Coke vs Pepsi) based on what patches are on certain drivers firesuits means nothing. It doesn't mean Jeff Gordon loved Pepsi. Heck, he had a Coke deal early on in his Cup career, maybe only for '93. It's that Pepsi won the bid with him and his management, so they get the patch on the firesuit.

Fans sometimes carry this loyalty around like it's some type of identity, but that means their identity is based on what, the marketing budget of one company accommodating a driver where another company's marketing budget couldn't accommodate that driver that year? It's all just cold corporate transactions made up to *look* like a driver is part of the "family" of that brand and really cares. It's PR fluff, all of it. I'm just putting it out there because it's the truth that some people, lots of NASCAR fans in general, don't seem to understand.

Also with the manufacturer loyalty, it needs to be pointed out I guess that the folks running the TRD program in Costa Mesa have nothing to do with the production of Toyota street cars. Roush-Yates engine builders have no connection to the Mustang you can buy at the dealer, and so on. I'm sure the TRD people are cool, and the Ford Performance people are cool, and the Team Chevy people are cool too. It doesn't have to be so "us versus them". And eith the teams themselves too, those employees move around, for example SHR has (or at least had as of a few seasons ago) a lot of the old DEI staff. Those people didn't reject a job with SHR just because they had previously hung Chevy bodies.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Jimmie is such a GM guy that he's driving a Honda this year in IndyCar instead of a Chevy. Carl was such a Ford loyalist that FoMoCo offered him Ford stock as part of an offer to stay at Roush and he still didn't take it.

Regarding Jeff and Dale Sr and Jr, Dale Sr was close to leaving RCR to drive the 88 Ford Quality Care Thunderbird in the 90s. Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr like GM because GM paid/pays them bundles of money. If Junior had moved to Gibbs instead of Hendrick and then Gibbs went to Toyota still then Junior would be a Toyota guy. That's just how it is. Look at Mark Martin and how he seemed like a dedicated Ford guy too, until better opportunities came knocking and then funny how it doesn't matter anymore.

The drivers are not "fans" of a brand, they are paid professionals. They do not love Ford or GM or Toyota, they create a symbiotic relationship with a brand that benefits both of them for a period of time defined by a contract. Look at Tony Stewart taking Ford's money to switch his team over from Chevy. Again, a GM guy until the money comes flowing and the opportunity is better. It's just business and marketing, nothing more.
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I don't disagree with what you are saying. My point is that relationships are developed, and all things equal, people will stick with what they know.

I bet Jimmie isn't driving a Honda on the street. I think Dale was using the Yates offer in '95 as leverage; I don't believe there was ever a realistic possibility of him leaving the 3 car. Martin drove GM cars most of his career before landing at Roush. A big reason for Tony leaving JGR was the manufacturer switch. I think Carl would have preferred a ride with Penske or SHR (if they had been a Ford team at the time) instead of switching to another manufacturer. If Penske switched to Chevrolet in a couple years, do you think the Wood Brothers would follow suit? No way in hell.

At the end of the day, business trumps "loyalty" and money/winning is all that matters. I'm not arguing against that. Brand loyalty may not exist to the level that Rev believes, but I think it still exists.
 
cheesepuffs said:
This is delusional. Kyle Busch does not have a "different level" of brand loyalty to Toyota. Everything about this is a transactional relationship and nothing more. It's business decisions.

I just want to point out that Toyota is a mega corporation that does not know your name or personally care about you. They're just a capitalistic money machine like any other. Where does your inclination to treat Toyota as a family member stem from?
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Someone had to say it
 
cheesepuffs said:
Dale Jr, in 2007, owned a Mini Cooper, praised it's good handling, and stated that a McLaren is his dream car:

https://m.lasvegassun.com/news/2007/mar/10/take-five-dale-earnhardt-jr/
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What's your point? He can be a GM guy, and also a rich car guy. The two are not mutually exclusive. I don't think I ever suggested that he is only allowed to like Chevys.

I'm a GM guy, but I drive a Ford every day. Why? Because my employer gave me the free car. If I had a million dollars, I'm sure my fleet would be large and it wouldn't be strictly GM.
 
2 Sweet said:
What's your point? He can be a GM guy, and also a rich car guy. The two are not mutually exclusive. I don't think I ever suggested that he is only allowed to like Chevys.

I'm a GM guy, but I drive a Ford every day. Why? Because my employer gave me the free car. If I had a million dollars, I'm sure my fleet would be large and it wouldn't be strictly GM.
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I wasn't directing that at you personally.
 
The real truth is that most of these guys don’t have a daily driver. They don’t drive themselves often enough.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Beloved Ford? He got a Roush deal, he wasn't seeking out to drive a Ford. Same with JGR drivers, or any racecar drivers - they just want the best equipment and best pay they can get. None of the drivers actually care what manufacturer branding is on the car, they're just a paid ambassador.
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This.

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Revman said:
I cannot imagine a HOFer satisfied with second. Can't see Dale Sr. ever feeling this way. Carl is his own man, and as I have stated, a complete enigma. His priorities are elsewhere which makes it good that he is elsewhere.
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Well that's what I mean by satisfied Rev. Meaning, he got everything he needed out of cup racing. As you said, his priorities were elsewhere at that point. Missing out on those "other priorities" seemed to have been harder to swallow than missing out on a cup title. That's what I meant by "satisfied".

Carl's fire in cup racing died in 2011, imo. I was a die hard Carl Edwards fan, but he wasn't the same confident driver after that. He showed flashes of it in 2016, but ultimately it wasn't enough.

2005-2011 Carl was as elite as you can be without being Johnson or Stewart, and he outdrivers 2014-2016 Carl in equal stuff, imo. 05-11 Carl could stack up against anyone if he had the car.

Carl always had the talent, but I felt he was riding around the last few seasons. 2016 felt a bit like the old Carl, but he wasn't the same confident driver.

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jaqua19 said:
Well that's what I mean by satisfied Rev. Meaning, he got everything he needed out of cup racing. As you said, his priorities were elsewhere at that point. Missing out on those "other priorities" seemed to have been harder to swallow than missing out on a cup title. That's what I meant by "satisfied".

Carl's fire in cup racing died in 2011, imo. I was a die hard Carl Edwards fan, but he wasn't the same confident driver after that. He showed flashes of it in 2016, but ultimately it wasn't enough.

2005-2011 Carl was as elite as you can be without being Johnson or Stewart, and he outdrivers 2014-2016 Carl in equal stuff, imo. 05-11 Carl could stack up against anyone if he had the car.

Carl always had the talent, but I felt he was riding around the last few seasons. 2016 felt a bit like the old Carl, but he wasn't the same confident driver.

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Well said as usual man. Really well said.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
The real truth is that most of these guys don’t have a daily driver. They don’t drive themselves often enough.
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I'm not sure where you are getting this, but my understanding is quite different. PSA's typically come with a car for that very purpose. I'm not sure who is driving them...if they are not driving themselves.
 
jaqua19 said:
This.

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Like I said, I don't agree. Ford wanted to to sell the company to keep Carl, and the first time it worked. I am under no illusion that KFB loves his Toyotas the way I do, but I do believe that there are relationships forged with manufacturers that become important to the drivers...and I don't think that was different for Carl. It was always my understanding that his relationship with Edsel was meaningful to him.
 
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