Cup Cars on Road Courses--A Compromise?

Revman

Revman

Toyota Gazoo Racing North America
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Road course racing is fun and different, however, I have always felt that these cars are not engineered to be on road courses, and they look awkward. What are your thoughts, and for those with racing backgrounds, what has been done over the years to make these cars better on these tracks?
 
Revman said:
Road course racing is fun and different, however, I have always felt that these cars are not engineered to be on road courses, and they look awkward. What are your thoughts, and for those with racing backgrounds, what has been done over the years to make these cars better on these tracks?
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I don't know why you feel like that. Nascar has been doing road courses for a long long time. I think when the COT came out the cars were less specialized, then as time has went the cars have become again more specialized. Sonoma has been a race that has drawn alot of excitement in recent years. it has the most contact out of all the road courses. People get mad during the race. Its also seems to be a place where drivers seem to think its a good place to settle and old score with another guy on. the thinking is I owe that guy a wreck lets give him one in a one off race, I will have made my point and it will be the end of it. Watkins glen they do fuel the car from the right side which means the fuel filler has to be moved. I am sure they do other things with weight bias to make it more equal or depending on which direction the course has more turns in.
 
It's kinda groovy-cool. There are these passing zones where they have opportunities to overtake. If nothing happens there, one gets to watch 'em follow one another around until they get to another opportunity. A lap under caution lasts long enough to bake a pizza.
 
The cars are not engineered from the ground up as roadracing missiles, and this "fish out of water" aspect is a large part of the appeal. It is not a contest of roadrace engineering prowess, for that see F1 or GT racing. It is a contest of stock car driving skill on yet another type of track, and that is what makes it exciting and valid.

Personally, I'd like to see three more roadracing circuits on the schedule, including one in Mexico, one in Canada, plus Road America. I'd lose one date at Daytona, one at Talladega, and the All Star show from the schedule to make room.
 
Revman said:
Road course racing is fun and different, however, I have always felt that these cars are not engineered to be on road courses, and they look awkward. What are your thoughts, and for those with racing backgrounds, what has been done over the years to make these cars better on these tracks?
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They look awesome on road courses whatchu talkin bout?
 
Revman said:
Road course racing is fun and different, however, I have always felt that these cars are not engineered to be on road courses, and they look awkward. What are your thoughts, and for those with racing backgrounds, what has been done over the years to make these cars better on these tracks?
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The fact that they aren't engineered to be on road courses is what makes the racing so much fun.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The fact that they aren't engineered to be on road courses is what makes the racing so much fun.
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Fair point, but to me, the engineering is part of the sport. It is indeed fun to watch, but at times it feels like these cars are being asked to do something they don't want to do. From a Crew Chief perspective, strategy is the most significant contribution IMO. Not sure what can be done in the way of in race adjustments to bring a car to life. This communication between driver and CC is such a cool part of NASCAR, and I feel somewhat lost in the driver-centric environment of road racing.
 
They look a little awkward at Sonoma with the big curbing and the slower, more technical nature of the layout they use there, but it's a solid drivers' challenge and fun to watch.

At a place with good flow and high speeds like Watkins Glen and Road America they look badass.
 
Revman said:
Road course racing is fun and different, however, I have always felt that these cars are not engineered to be on road courses, and they look awkward. What are your thoughts, and for those with racing backgrounds, what has been done over the years to make these cars better on these tracks?
Click to expand...
I think they do very well considering their all-up weight on small tire contact patches.
 
Revman said:
Road course racing is fun and different, however, I have always felt that these cars are not engineered to be on road courses, and they look awkward. What are your thoughts, and for those with racing backgrounds, what has been done over the years to make these cars better on these tracks?
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Stock cars are a compromise regardless of the surface. It's not like they're the best configuration for ovals either.
 
Cup cars on ovals are a compromise .............. watch an Indy car go around Phoenix.
Still love watching the big ole heavyweight Nascar cars on the road course.


One can always tune in to an F-1 race and see the same two cars every race with a second and a half advantage a lap on the field
 
FLRacingFan said:
They look a little awkward at Sonoma with the big curbing and the slower, more technical nature of the layout they use there, but it's a solid drivers' challenge and fun to watch.

At a place with good flow and high speeds like Watkins Glen and Road America they look badass.
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Really well said.
 
I always go back to my Kyle racing shopping carts vibe on road courses. Maybe not my favorite genre, but it's Kyle....in a Toyota...racing.....for a win....all in baby. Any track Kyle wins at becomes my favorite track.
 
Do you two, need a moment................to share a Twix ?

:laugh::laugh:
 
tbr7 said:
Nah, thats what almost every other racing series in the world is for. NASCAR is an oval sport plain and simple and it should stay that way.
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If you say so.

I enjoy NASCAR road races - it adds a certain dynamic that we aren't used to seeing. Not saying that NASCAR should be a series of road circuits, but I would love to see the drivers showcase their abilities on road courses more often.
 
Road courses, martinsville, talladega and Daytona. Pretty much the ones that I make an effort to see. 1.5 mile tracks? NOPE----- 2 mile track seem to have taken on a different look this season
 
Look forward to road courses. Like the technical aspect and all of the shifting....I like how the look doing things they dont normally do
 
Had the internet been around about 50-55 years ago this thread may have been a topic. Not sure why it is today. Compromise, no. Tradition, yes.
 
There was a time time I though NASCAR had no business running road courses. That's sports car and open wheel territory. But now I like them on the schedule. Back in the day there only a few NASCAR drivers were any good on road courses and now I think most of the drivers are competitive. They days of the road course ringer are gone.

I consider road courses to be the ultimate test of driver skill.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Had the internet been around about 50-55 years ago this thread may have been a topic. Not sure why it is today. Compromise, no. Tradition, yes.
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So let's go back....Why did NASCAR originally decide to go road course racing? Technical merit of the event, or location? For example, are we in Sonoma this weekend because of the track/type of racing, or because the track is in central Cali?
 
Revman said:
So let's go back....Why did NASCAR originally decide to go road course racing? Technical merit of the event, or location? For example, are we in Sonoma this weekend because of the track/type of racing, or because the track is in central Cali?
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The first NASCAR race held on a purpose-built paved road course ran at Elkhart Lake in 1956. First event at Riverside ... 1958.
 
aunty dive said:
The first NASCAR race held on a purpose-built paved road course ran at Elkhart Lake in 1956. First event at Riverside ... 1958.
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So, NASCAR wanted road course racing--not just market penetration. Good info. Thanks.
 
Revman said:
So let's go back....Why did NASCAR originally decide to go road course racing? Technical merit of the event, or location? For example, are we in Sonoma this weekend because of the track/type of racing, or because the track is in central Cali?
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Sonoma is right next to San Francisco, so I'm going with location because there are much better road courses in the US than Sonoma. SF is one of the largest and most affluent cities in the US, every major sport has at least one team located there. NFL has 2 (49ers, Raiders). MLB has 2 (Giants, A's). NBA (Warriors), NHL (San Jose Sharks), Golf (Pebble Beach), even Soccer (San Jose Earthquakes).
 
LouieLouie said:
Sonoma is right next to San Francisco, so I'm going with location because there are much better road courses in the US than Sonoma. SF is one of the largest and most affluent cities in the US, every major sport has at least one team located there. NFL has 2 (49ers, Raiders). MLB has 2 (Giants, A's). NBA (Warriors), NHL (San Jose Sharks), Golf (Pebble Beach), even Soccer (San Jose Earthquakes).
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You do have to ask yourself....Where is the nearest oval in central Cali? NASCAR put up with Fontana because they are insistent on LA. Would NASCAR bite on a NY oval if there was one rather than Watkins Glen? Having said all of that, @aunty dive makes a great point regarding NASCAR's initial commitment to road course racing. I am sure that it is part track/part location like anything else. Maybe more specifically, is Sonoma the track NASCAR wants to be at? Watkins Glen does seem more suited to these cars IMO.
 
BobbyFord said:
These road cars are adjusted for the road course. These aren't your typical 1.5 mile set ups.
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Certainly, and I think that teams are building dedicated road course cars where in the past I don't think they did....and I guess that's my question...How much can you do to these cars to make them viable on a track like Sonoma before you are asking them to do more than they are capable of? I mean the argument against COTA is that the turns are too tight, etc. for these cars. Some of this has to be about the car to track compatibility I would think....and I wonder how compatible Sonoma is where I think Watkins Glenn definitely suits these cars IMO.
 
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