Cup RACE thread --- Bristol

Revman said:
He says a lot of good stuff....some just get stuck in the narrative.
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The latest is he's running his yappy mouth, whining about the car after he has two wins and a second and then we get to listen to the parrots parroting like he is the resident sage of racing. Hamlin the car expert. A real Mr. Fix it with no solutions. You stay stuck in the narrative, I say shut up and drive.
 
StandOnIt said:
The latest is he's running his yappy mouth, whining about the car after he has two wins and a second and then we get to listen to the parrots parroting like he is the resident sage of racing. Hamlin the car expert. A real Mr. Fix it with no solutions. You stay stuck in the narrative, I say shut up and drive.
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56 wins. He’s been driving.
 
StandOnIt said:
Almost 2200 passes under green, 4 lead changes, tire management, Larson said he was running around 85% to keep his tires cool enough to pass, Hamlin was also. Passing lappers from any lane on the track. Yep Larson put the whoop ass on em.
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OK. It took me some time to get here obviously because I was at the race and did not get home until 6:30pm last night. This will be a novel too so feel free to skip Stan - especially since I know you will not agree with anything LOL. The word I can use to describe it? Sad is the only one. I see posts like this and want to be very respectful of those who enjoyed this and whatever their experience was. To me though, saying there were 2200 passes under green is a very misleading statement made by someone who is happy with the result and trying to defend it. I have been watching NASCAR for 35+ years now and THIS WEEK was the first time I have heard people using passes of lapped cars as a metric to try to defend the on-track product.

I know a lot of what I say will be dismissed by the majority since the Larson wave is strong here and people think I don't like him. My issue has NOTHING to do with him. He drove a great race (except hitting the wall with 7 to go which he is lucky did not damage the car to the point where he lost because that my friends would have been a huge choke) and he did exactly what he is supposed to do. Kyle Larson at Bristol will eventually be mentioned in the same vein as Earnhardt at Dega or Elliott at Michigan or Johson at Dover or Waltrip at Bristol. In fact, the Waltrip comparison is fitting because it's Bristol and I think Larson's career numbers will end up similar to DW. My point though is that this dominance is nothing new. Everything with the car and Larson's ability and style are meshing perfectly at Bristol right now as it did with those drivers during that time and NASCAR was thriving and prior to Johnson was still must-see and growing - even with dominance like Larson on Sunday.

The issue was everything that happened or in this case did not happen behind Larson. There was very little on-track passing for POSITION. I am not saying there was none as there was some here and there but really no comers and goers on a long green run. You could get a few early in the run but as it went on less and less. Everyone outside of the top 2-3 were running very similar lap speeds. Remember - I was THERE. This is what everyone we were talking to were seeing. NOTHING was happening. I use the word "sad" because that is exactly how I feel right now. Not sad that my driver had a very mid day, not sad that a driver dominated, sad that I feel like I am watching a childhood friend die. It was a lifelong ambition for me to go to Bristol. Seeing it now though (more than half empty) and the boning race that was there was just.....sad. The group I went with was clear they will not go back until the racing is better and I agree with them. This is AFTER I got to the area and found it to be beautiful and was super-stoked that 20-minutes form the track where we stayed there are limitless restaurant options, a bowling alley and a movie theatre and all located very conveniently. This is not the case every place - Watkins Glen for example has almost nothing near the track that I saw. Then I got to the track and laid eyes on it and it looked surreal to me and I was so excited to watch KNOWING it was likely that Larson was going to dominate. Then the "race" happened.

Like I said, to those that enjoyed it I am truly happy for you and congrats to the Larson fans. That said, the sport I love is going to continue to die if that's the best we can do and I already know it's not based on what we saw in 2024 in the spring. My issue with Larson continues to be the same - his driving is great and no one can question that but for him to make any statements in defense of this race and say he was managing just right and so on are just a joke to me because there were no tire failures and no one's tires fell off to the point where it made any real difference so apparently everyone managed tires perfectly. This especially after last spring when he got out and complained about one of the most exciting races we have seen. It's easy to see a direct correlation between Larson being happy when he wins and complaining when he does not and that's my issue. He seems tone deaf about the state of the sport and only focused on himself and all is well if he dominates a snooze-fest but if he does not win an exciting race then well there's a problem. It does not make him a terrible person - I just wish he would be more of an ambassador of the sport and not seem to only care about himself.

I will end on this - It's all over social media that this race was terrible. 80% said it was bad on Gluck's poll and let's be real - the majority that thought it was good are Larson fans and that's fine. Personally if Chase had done the same I'd be happy my driver won but able to say it was a terrible race with no on-track lead changes, not much passing for position and tries did not mean enough. People were falling asleep around us and even the Larson fans that were near us had not much of a reaction TBH. The bottom line is that if people tunned off a race at BRISTOL to watch golf and found golf more exciting then how does NASCAR do nothing about this?
 
There was some passing. I was in the infield taking photos, so I had plenty of chances to take shots of passes until the final stage. There wasn't a huge amount, but there was some. It wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible.

Bristol has a big problem. It was a beautiful day and they only drew about 50k fans. Years ago, this was laughable. This is becoming the norm for the spring race. The problem started when they reconfigured the track with the progressive banking. Until recently, it has made racing better. But the fans have made it clear they want the beating and banging of the old track with everybody hugging the bottom. The track adds traction compound on the bottom to make it like the old track, but has made things worse. The NextGen car isn't cutting it on the short tracks. Bristol is no exception. Ticket prices are more expensive than many other tracks. The local hotels hold people up for 3 or 4-night minimums.
 
MRM said:
There was some passing. I was in the infield taking photos, so I had plenty of chances to take shots of passes until the final stage. There wasn't a huge amount, but there was some. It wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible.

Bristol has a big problem. It was a beautiful day and they only drew about 50k fans. Years ago, this was laughable. This is becoming the norm for the spring race. The problem started when they reconfigured the track with the progressive banking. Until recently, it has made racing better. But the fans have made it clear they want the beating and banging of the old track with everybody hugging the bottom. The track adds traction compound on the bottom to make it like the old track, but has made things worse. The NextGen car isn't cutting it on the short tracks. Bristol is no exception. Ticket prices are more expensive than many other tracks. The local hotels hold people up for 3 or 4-night minimums.
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A lot of it could be solved with tire wear and we saw that last spring. Now was last spring a little TOO much? Yes. But there is an area there that NASCAR should live in where there is more fall off than what we had Sunday without the extreme of Spring 2024 and that would make things more interesting at least. Would still not be the "old" bump and run Bristol but more interesting than the parade we had Sunday. I think if they want the old Bristol back they need to tear it up and repave without the progressive banking. Even if they do though, they still may not get that with these cars. I feel like they put so much in this Gen 7 car to make the racing at mile and half tracks better (which they accomplished I think) that they totally ruined the short tracks. I know it sounds ridiculous but I think they could just keep using the Gen 6 at the short tracks and we'd be just fine. LOL.
 
Bristol holds 155 thousand people and with football, they almost filled it up so the seats aren't going anywhere. There were almost 2200 passes under the green, that isn't terrible at all for a short track, 4 wide racing in some spots had me holding my breath.

The track is designed for multi groove passing and Larson drove all over the track and lapped up to 10th more than once without having to make a goon show out of it. It's understandable Larson putting on a whoop ass driving exhibition doesn't work well for fans with the attention span of a gnat or ones who have their driver get their asses kicked/lapped.

The traction compound is put low because they were all racing the high groove after one of the many configurations of the track if anybody remembers before they started applying it.
Then here we go again, they roughed up the top groove to try to make them race lower because everybody raced the top and the fans complained about that. Drivers AND fans complained about the rough surface, they didn't want them racing up there, but they didn't want it rough either lol.

Then trying to appease the fans once again, they started using traction compound in the low groove to get the race down and they smoothed up the top groove because the traction compound would wear out and when they went to the top the rough surface destroyed their tires.

So once again they changed the track by smoothing up the top groove and they have racing all over the track now.

All of these changes at Bristol were AFTER they lost tons of fans in an attempt to get them back. They lost fans everywhere in the series, track changes or not..the boom years were over. Hotel scalpers, parking and restaurants, have preyed on the fans for quite some time along with ticket prices.

P.S. the crowd is always larger for the fall race.
 
StandOnIt said:
Bristol holds 155 thousand people and with football, they almost filled it up so the seats aren't going anywhere. There were almost 2200 passes under the green, that isn't terrible at all for a short track, 4 wide racing in some spots had me holding my breath.

The track is designed for multi groove passing and Larson drove all over the track and lapped up to 10th more than once without having to make a goon show out of it. It's understandable Larson putting on a whoop ass driving exhibition doesn't work well for fans with the attention span of a gnat or ones who have their driver get their asses kicked/lapped.

The traction compound is put low because they were all racing the high groove after one of the many configurations of the track if anybody remembers before they started applying it.
Then here we go again, they roughed up the top groove to try to make them race lower because everybody raced the top and the fans complained about that. Drivers AND fans complained about the rough surface, they didn't want them racing up there, but they didn't want it rough either lol.

Then trying to appease the fans once again, they started using traction compound in the low groove to get the race down and they smoothed up the top groove because the traction compound would wear out and when they went to the top the rough surface destroyed their tires.

So once again they changed the track by smoothing up the top groove and they have racing all over the track now.

All of these changes at Bristol were AFTER they lost tons of fans in an attempt to get them back. They lost fans everywhere in the series, track changes or not..the boom years were over. Hotel scalpers, parking and restaurants, have preyed on the fans for quite some time along with ticket prices.

P.S. the crowd is always larger for the fall race.
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You're entitled to your point of view in this perceived defense of the race. While you are laying out some facts above, the point I am making is the race was bad. You can disagree as we are all entitled to that opinion and mine is no more "right" or "wrong" than yours. Just understand you are in the minority on this one. I was THERE. All the talk amongst fans on the walk out was that it was a terrible race. The vast majority of buzz on news/social media was that it was a bad race. You can pull stats out that try to save it or defend it but that's all how you skew it. I have stated there was passing - although I refuse to use the passing of lapped cars as a metric. I have said there was very little passing for position and only ONE on track lead change with equals BORING. There were literally people sleeping in the stands near us and it was not because they were passed out drunk either. In our entire area (between turn 4 and the start/finish line near the top) I saw only one fan all day get excited and stand up and cheer/waive his driver on and that was a Chastain fan that was excited because he did pass a few cars at one point.

I get it - you like Larson and will always defend the product when he does well. It's admirable to a point. I am realist though and I just can't see defending this race at all. And no matter how "right" you think you are the fans will continue to not show up for what we had on Sunday.
 
StandOnIt said:
The more things change the more they stay the same lol.
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I'm old school and I miss the longer races but in fairness it was just a different sport back then and the longer races were fitting. Back then you had tire fall off which led to more pit stops and strategy and usually a lot of cars fell out of contention because of mechanical failures. Overall it was more interesting and exciting where now you have NONE of that basically most of the time. They could have run 1000 laps Sunday and the result would have been much the same.

And PS - I understand failures still happen like with Bowman Sunday and the issues Blaney had earlier this year but they are very few and far between now where in the old days you almost knew someone was going to have some type of an issue throughout the race.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
You're entitled to your point of view in this perceived defense of the race. While you are laying out some facts above, the point I am making is the race was bad. You can disagree as we are all entitled to that opinion and mine is no more "right" or "wrong" than yours. Just understand you are in the minority on this one. I was THERE. All the talk amongst fans on the walk out was that it was a terrible race. The vast majority of buzz on news/social media was that it was a bad race. You can pull stats out that try to save it or defend it but that's all how you skew it. I have stated there was passing - although I refuse to use the passing of lapped cars as a metric. I have said there was very little passing for position and only ONE on track lead change with equals BORING. There were literally people sleeping in the stands near us and it was not because they were passed out drunk either. In our entire area (between turn 4 and the start/finish line near the top) I saw only one fan all day get excited and stand up and cheer/waive his driver on and that was a Chastain fan that was excited because he did pass a few cars at one point.

I get it - you like Larson and will always defend the product when he does well. It's admirable to a point. I am realist though and I just can't see defending this race at all. And no matter how "right" you think you are the fans will continue to not show up for what we had on Sunday.
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Sorry bud, I didn't read you post to start with, but your butt hurt is noted. :idunno:
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
It sucks seeing the sport you love basically dying. It's hard for me to relate to people who can't see past what they want.
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Dying? The sport ( Cup) is entering new markets like Mexico City, Rockingham and Wilkesboro have been resurrected, just signed a new huge tv deal with streaming that will have its first race ever broadcasted on Amazon Prime in less than a month, new teams like 23XI are thriving….if you want to say “hey this Bristol race sucked, it was a bad race” fine I can buy it…. but to go from that to the sport is dying is a huge leap in my view.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Dying? The sport ( Cup) is entering new markets like Mexico City, Rockingham and Wilkesboro have been resurrected, just signed a new huge tv deal with streaming that will have its first race ever broadcasted on Amazon Prime in less than a month, new teams like 23XI are thriving….if you want to say “hey this Bristol race sucked, it was a bad race” fine I can buy it…. but to go from that to the sport is dying is a huge leap in my view.
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Yeah I hear you. My feelings are more about perspective over the long haul and what it once was compared to what it is now. I was siting there at Bristol looking at the stands imagining what it was like in the good old days when the place was packed and feeling like it's dying. You are probably right that this is in overstatement but it can't be ignored how bad the race was and how bad short tracks have become and I am afraid of where that might go if there is not improvement. I was actually texting with an old coworker after the race who was an Earnhardt fan back in the day and is a Larson fan now and even HE was saying he hoped Blaney was going to pull off an upset because at least there would have been SOMETHING interesting that happened. He said "not hard to win in NASCAR when you have a fast car and get good pit stops."

I am not sure about the Mexico City thing as I know nothing about if there is an audience there that will care much. We will see. CUP NEEDS to go back to the Rock. They should take the early Phoenix date and give it to the Rock. Very excited to see how that Xfinity race goes this weekend.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That door swings both ways.
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Well the difference with me is that I'd be saying the same thing regardless of who won and believe me when I say I don't want to feel the way I do. It's clear to me that the majority (not all of course) of those defending this race are Larson fans or strong supporters of his even if they claim not to specifically root for him. That's why I stressed that I am happy for them but I'd rather see Chase finish 20th and the race be GREAT then have him dominate a terrible race. I understand most are not like that though.

Dominant performances have always and will always be part of racing and I have zero issue with that. It was not too long ago that when we showed up to a road course it was more likely than not that Chase would win. That changed. This will change as well with Larson but not in the near future at Bristol at least.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
Well the difference with me is that I'd be saying the same thing regardless of who won and believe me when I say I don't want to feel the way I do. It's clear to me that the majority (not all of course) of those defending this race are Larson fans or strong supporters of his even if they claim not to specifically root for him.
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This is a huge projection at best. I think if you went scrolled through the race thread you'd see a few Larson fans saying this race wasnt very exciting. I myself even said that "This car is killing short track racing." Through your time here, when you post you find ways to tie everything back to Larson and his fans "or those that dont claim to root for him but do", I've never really understood the angle with that. I dont think it matters who won, lots of fans were disenchanted with this one.... reddit, facebook, here, twitter. Folks have had it with this car on the short tracks, regardless of what sponsor hat they're wearing or driver flag they're flying. I went back and rewatched the race, it was meh at best. My point is, the short track package is leaving a lot to be desired for some fans. Who someone is cheering for is kind of irrelevant from what I've seen and read since Sunday.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
This is a huge projection at best. I think if you went scrolled through the race thread you'd see a few Larson fans saying this race wasnt very exciting. I myself even said that "This car is killing short track racing." Through your time here, when you post you find ways to tie everything back to Larson and his fans "or those that dont claim to root for him but do", I've never really understood the angle with that. I dont think it matters who won, lots of fans were disenchanted with this one.... reddit, facebook, here, twitter. Folks have had it with this car on the short tracks, regardless of what sponsor hat they're wearing or driver flag they're flying. I went back and rewatched the race, it was meh at best. My point is, the short track package is leaving a lot to be desired for some fans. Who someone is cheering for is kind of irrelevant from what I've seen and read since Sunday.
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I am not sure I follow you 100% but I am not trying to tie anything back to Larson's fans other than to say it seems to me that most people who found anything to enjoy about the race are people who outright state they root for Larson or have shown him support and get excited when he does well. There are always exceptions of course as I already mentioned one person I know that is a Larson fan who hated the race and was hoping Blaney pulled the upset. Either way I think we all agree 100% that short track racing is terrible right now. It's disappointing because I thought after Bowman Gray things might be better as that racing was better and the response was more positive and I say that understanding the appearance because Chase won that race but I think the racing was much better.

I am trying to hit a new track every year and next year was going to be Martinsville but after this mess and the short track BS we may actually do Atlanta. I hate watching speedway races on TV but had fun at Talladega in person back in 2023 so that might be better. Still a small outside chance I will be at Iowa this year also but growing more doubtful by the day. I don't see myself at a short track any time soon.
 
StandOnIt said:
IMO all the changes they made to Bristol because of the masses, I'm pretty sure they are done listening to the masses.
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In total fairness though, Bristol was fantastic when they first reconfigured it. I remember an Xfinity race there where there was a 3-wide finish for the win. It has not aged well. The best news I could hear is that they are tearing it up and putting it back the way it was prior. I know some are calling for the dirt again but that was meh at best.
 
Here is some of the food that the sheep feed on. The facts are
The 2008 Sharpie race at Bristol had 4 lead changes and 1141 passes under green
Last weeks Bristol race had 4 lead changes and almost 2200 green flag passes.
Perception and reality are two different things.
 
StandOnIt said:
IMO all the changes they made to Bristol because of the masses, I'm pretty sure they are done listening to the masses.
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Agreed. If Bristol was torn up and put back to one lane, beating and banging moving the guy up off the groove Bristol I’m sure some would hate that. This fan base is its own worst enemy in a way, I’m not sure you’ll ever have a 100% consensus on something. I mean people are actually championing the narrative of taking away a race from Bristol. Bristol….the only track in the world like it. I never thought I’d hear that.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Agreed. If Bristol was torn up and put back to one lane, beating and banging moving the guy up off the groove Bristol I’m sure some would hate that. This fan base is its own worst enemy in a way, I’m not sure you’ll ever have a 100% consensus on something. I mean people are actually championing the narrative of taking away a race from Bristol. Bristol….the only track in the world like it. I never thought I’d hear that.
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It's pretty nuts. On one of the Bristol hater threads, one said they screwed up getting rid of Brian France. Another said they liked the high HP COT with a wing. lol.
Larson has won 3 of the last 6, can you imagine if in these times Darrell won his 7 in a row at Bristol lol. They would be ready to burn the place down. Bruton Smith was pissed because of the attendance and mad fans.
 
StandOnIt said:
It's pretty nuts. On one of the Bristol hater threads, one said they screwed up getting rid of Brian France. Another said they liked the high HP COT with a wing. lol.
Larson has won 3 of the last 6, can you imagine if in these times Darrell won his 7 in a row at Bristol lol. They would be ready to burn the place down. Bruton Smith was pissed because of the attendance and mad fans.
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Yea I said during the race thread that these fans now would be hating DW’s run at Bristol or when Rusty was on his run there.
 
It's all about the numbers Charlie.

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A few closing thoughts on this one for me guys since the conversation continues to be about some thinking the race was not that bad and "2200" passes keeps getting thrown out there and comparisons made to other Bristol races that had fewer. You just CAN'T use passes of lapped cars as a metric for the race. You can slice this any way you want but there was not a lot in the way of green flag passing for position and that's the issue. There is not really an argument against it either.

Comparing what Larson is doing to other dominance in the past perfectly proves the point that maybe some were dominant in the past but the racing behind them was much better. When you have someone dominating this way and not much happening behind them it's a bad recipe. In those older Bristol races stuff was happening - beating and banging and shoving guys out of the groove - more pit stops, tire wear and parts failures and so on. It was EXCITING. This is NOT.

As the week has gone on I have tried to look at it from other view points but the race is not aging any better for me. I am glad we are getting away from short tracks for a bit and doing something else. Super stoked for the Xfinity race this weekend and seeing Kasey Kahne back on the track. Don't care how he runs really - he's already getting a win just for showing up and making the comeback with where his health once was.

One other thing I will touch on that I have not yet and now feel the need to with Kevin Harvick basically saying this week that Kyle Larson should be MPD now or something along those lines of expecting him to be because of all the racing he does and the wins he's getting which BTW makes little sense to me given that Bell has more wins this year. We have had the debate here about Chase and why he is MPD and I think some question if he really is or NASCR riggs it. It's not close guys. I was actually shocked at how much Elliott gear I saw at Bristol. We waited in line for 30 or so minutes at his trailer for gear when there was no noticeable line at anyone else's. MPD has never been about the guy that wins the most. Earnhardt never was until the end despite all the winning. Bill Elliott won year after year even not winning from late 94 until the end of 2001. I am not saying it's impossible that another driver could take the MPD title but it will surprise me. Larson to me is becoming a lot like I remember Dale Earnhardt back in the day. Yes - he wins and many people like him and he's probably the best driver on the track and his fans want you to know it and hear about it and seem to make more noise than other drivers' fans but that does not make him the most popular. I don't think a lot of his comments resonate with a lot of his fans whether that be complaining about Chastain's wall run, the tire war at Bristol or now his comments that he wants to run more Xfinity races and stomp the field which everyone complained about when Kyle Bush did it. Yes - I am sure some people like those comments and I have no major issue with them but many will find them arrogant and unnecessary.

As for Chase, yes they need to get back in the win column but I just don't think he is the issue. This team rarely runs a clean race - they have constant communication issues and bad pit stops (and for some reason Larson got a new crew?) and AG's strategy is just off a lot of the time. He could have won Martinsville or Darlington with better pit stops. People can say he needs to be more aggressive which I think there is some merit to but it's gotta be damn frustrating to constantly lose positions on the track when passing is so tough. I also have to give Chase a shout out for walking around a parking/camping area at Bristol Saturday and meeting fans and giving them tickets to the MLB game that will be played at Bristol later this year. That's pretty cool stuff.

So for those that enjoyed the race and/or found some good things in it I rally am happy for you but I just don't see it and the ratings show it as well with a sharp decline from last year. Never thought I'd see that day that only 1.1 million people tuned in for a Bristol race. Sad.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
So for those that enjoyed the race and/or found some good things in it I rally am happy for you but I just don't see it and the ratings show it as well with a sharp decline from last year. Never thought I'd see that day that only 1.1 million people tuned in for a Bristol race. Sad.
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You can moan and cry, but don't even think your nonsense is going anywhere. I would advise you to take a good look at all of the major motorsports ratings before you start with the B.S. numbers and try to create a crisis where there isn't one. It goes to credibility of which you aren't doing that well.

P.S. you have a very long way to go to make the deathbedder hall of fame around here.

 
StandOnIt said:
You can moan and cry, but don't even think your nonsense is going anywhere. I would advise you to take a good look at all of the major motorsports ratings before you start with the B.S. numbers and try to create a crisis where there isn't one. It goes to credibility of which you aren't doing that well.

P.S. you have a very long way to go to make the deathbedder hall of fame around here.

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Cup got 2 million viewers? Why do I see on here and other places, 1 million watched? Maybe it’s Kyle Larson’s and his fans fault, I don’t know.
 
StandOnIt said:
Here is some of the food that the sheep feed on. The facts are
The 2008 Sharpie race at Bristol had 4 lead changes and 1141 passes under green
Last weeks Bristol race had 4 lead changes and almost 2200 green flag passes.
Perception and reality are two different things.
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But how many cautions? How many helmets thrown? Those are the things fans want from Bristol, not actual racing.
 
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