Cup RACE thread — Darlington

Revman said:
Wonder why he turned it down.
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Mr H. is Chevy in Nascar. Dale Jr brought that up a couple weeks ago when talking about Hocevar and messing with the Hendricks cars during the races. That Hocevar wouldn't want to get that call from Mr. H. like Chastain did.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Might have not been interested in ownership at that time, regardless of team or manufacturer. Might have felt it would interfere with his IndyCar effort. Who knows? People change.

If you bump into him at some Toyota get-together, ask him for us, okay? Thanks!
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Quite often when my son sees someone wearing camouflage clothing he purposely "bumps into him" saying, "Sorry, but I didn't see you."
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Might have not been interested in ownership at that time, regardless of team or manufacturer. Might have felt it would interfere with his IndyCar effort. Who knows? People change.

If you bump into him at some Toyota get-together, ask him for us, okay? Thanks!
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That was worth the time? Will do.
 
Revman said:
Wonder why he turned it down.
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From what we were told at least, he simply wasn't interested in car ownership at that time, or ANY time until he DID. If Cup car ownership was some long term goal, I don't think he ever does the Indycar thing. You can't have this thing both ways, Rev. You can't slam Chevy or Hendrick for not giving Jimmie a seat at the Chevy table, when they actually DID, nobody seemed to know he was at all interested, and then act like they did him dirty, or that there is some nefarious reason he WOULN'T accept an offer from Rick. I look at it this way from what we know; Jimmie's Cup career has ground to a halt, he tries living overseas and driving Indycars, that pretty much flops, and an opportunity nobody even knows he was interested in falls into his lap, being a part owner of a third rate Cup team, and suddenly everyone is supposed to adjust their plans and start kissing Jimmie's rings. Another reason why I don't think car ownership was every in Jimmie's plans was his outright admission that he regrets not doing more to build his own brand when he was a driver, which tells me he was never really looking long term. I think he thought he was just going to take his money and trophies and ride off into the sunset. Rev, despite your desire to turn this Legacy-Toyota marriage into something cosmic, it's really just a case of a team that desperately needed more manufacturer support if they wanted to become anything more than a fringe operation, and a manufacturer that badly wanted/needed another team and had very little to choose from. More than love at first sight, this is like two forty year old single people who realize it's either marry each other or die alone.
 
Formerjackman said:
From what we were told at least, he simply wasn't interested in car ownership at that time, or ANY time until he DID. If Cup car ownership was some long term goal, I don't think he ever does the Indycar thing. You can't have this thing both ways, Rev. You can't slam Chevy or Hendrick for not giving Jimmie a seat at the Chevy table, when they actually DID, nobody seemed to know he was at all interested, and then act like they did him dirty, or that there is some nefarious reason he WOULN'T accept an offer from Rick. I look at it this way from what we know; Jimmie's Cup career has ground to a halt, he tries living overseas and driving Indycars, that pretty much flops, and an opportunity nobody even knows he was interested in falls into his lap, being a part owner of a third rate Cup team, and suddenly everyone is supposed to adjust their plans and start kissing Jimmie's rings. Another reason why I don't think car ownership was every in Jimmie's plans was his outright admission that he regrets not doing more to build his own brand when he was a driver, which tells me he was never really looking long term. I think he thought he was just going to take his money and trophies and ride off into the sunset. Rev, despite your desire to turn this Legacy-Toyota marriage into something cosmic, it's really just a case of a team that desperately needed more manufacturer support if they wanted to become anything more than a fringe operation, and a manufacturer that badly wanted/needed another team and had very little to choose from. More than love at first sight, this is like two forty year old single people who realize it's either marry each other or die alone.
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I think the key thing in the Jimmie deal was that he wanted to go it alone--without an alliance. The Felon was offered a spot at HIS table....which is the only Chevy table that matters. That's different than what Jimmie was seeking, and Toyota was willing because Jimmie is Jimmie. It probably would have been more cozy for Legacy to go the alliance route for Toyota. JGR by David Wilson's own admission didn't like the Tier 1 piece. I do not think that the other offers on the table were Tier 1...they were alliance deals. Toyota was set to go another direction until Jimmie reached out. He is a perfect culture fit for Toyota. This really isn't different from how WE landed JGR. There is one team at Chevy. One. Particularly in this Next Gen era, a manufacturer has to diversify in order to stay competitive. Legacy is becoming a very good team, and I am loving a certain poster who is eating his words.
 
Revman said:
I think the key thing in the Jimmie deal was that he wanted to go it alone--without an alliance. The Felon was offered a spot at HIS table....which is the only Chevy table that matters. That's different than what Jimmie was seeking, and Toyota was willing because Jimmie is Jimmie. It probably would have been more cozy for Legacy to go the alliance route for Toyota. JGR by David Wilson's own admission didn't like the Tier 1 piece. I do not think that the other offers on the table were Tier 1...they were alliance deals. Toyota was set to go another direction until Jimmie reached out. He is a perfect culture fit for Toyota. This really isn't different from how WE landed JGR. There is one team at Chevy. One. Particularly in this Next Gen era, a manufacturer has to diversify in order to stay competitive. Legacy is becoming a very good team, and I am loving a certain poster who is eating his words.
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Trackhouse Kaulig (for now) and Spire din't seem to have any issues with how Chevy does things, and now it looks like Haas is crawling back, so why should Jimmie-come -lately get a better deal than they are getting? As for how Toyota got JGR, lets not forget who got JGR off the ground, and let's not forget that they won more championships being the 2nd-3rd GM team as they have as mostly the ONLY real Toyota team.
 
Formerjackman said:
Trackhouse Kaulig (for now) and Spire din't seem to have any issues with how Chevy does things, and now it looks like Haas is crawling back, so why should Jimmie-come -lately get a better deal than they are getting? As for how Toyota got JGR, lets not forget who got JGR off the ground, and let's not forget that they won more championships being the 2nd-3rd GM team as they have as mostly the ONLY real Toyota team.
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Trackhouse should have had an issue with how things worked after The Felon neutered Chastain. I mean really....another owner calls your driver to tell him to back it down? Really? Do you really think that Trackhouse et al. are seeking championships? We all saw how happy The Chain Gang was when Tony won the Championship with their stuff. The JGR deal was clearly a better deal for Coach. Barney would like to have a word with you regarding the only real Toyota team thing....and winning a championship back in the ChevroRick days was different than it is now, and we all know that.
 
Revman said:
Trackhouse should have had an issue with how things worked after The Felon neutered Chastain. I mean really....another owner calls your driver to tell him to back it down? Really? Do you really think that Trackhouse et al. are seeking championships? We all saw how happy The Chain Gang was when Tony won the Championship with their stuff. The JGR deal was clearly a better deal for Coach. Barney would like to have a word with you regarding the only real Toyota team thing....and winning a championship back in the ChevroRick days was different than it is now, and we all know that.
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Yes Barney would because once furniture row got competitive, the preacher shut them down!
 
Revman said:
Trackhouse should have had an issue with how things worked after The Felon neutered Chastain. I mean really....another owner calls your driver to tell him to back it down? Really? Do you really think that Trackhouse et al. are seeking championships? We all saw how happy The Chain Gang was when Tony won the Championship with their stuff. The JGR deal was clearly a better deal for Coach. Barney would like to have a word with you regarding the only real Toyota team thing....and winning a championship back in the ChevroRick days was different than it is now, and we all know that.
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How did Rick neuter Chastain? He asked Ross not to wreck HIS cars, he didn't say anything about not wrecking the other 30 some odd cars on the track. I think what you interpret as neutering was really Trackhouse's cars becoming less competitive as the teams got more familiar with the new car, something I predicted from the word go. Toyota was surely a good deal for JGR from a money standpoint, but I'm not convinced it made a whole lot of difference from a performance standpoint, and yes, a couple years aside out of almost twenty years with Toyota, JGR was the only game in town until the 45 stepped up. I know you always want to paint Rick as some kind of bad guy, but people keep aligning themselves with him, and there has to be a reason for that. Dan Towriss has FU money like few others, but there is Spire, aligned with HMS. Gene Haas can do whatever he wants, but was and now is back aligned with Rick. Meanwhile, it never seems to end well for teams connected to JGR. I get the distinct impression even 23XI wishes it weren't.
 
Formerjackman said:
How did Rick neuter Chastain? He asked Ross not to wreck HIS cars, he didn't say anything about not wrecking the other 30 some odd cars on the track. I think what you interpret as neutering was really Trackhouse's cars becoming less competitive as the teams got more familiar with the new car, something I predicted from the word go. Toyota was surely a good deal for JGR from a money standpoint, but I'm not convinced it made a whole lot of difference from a performance standpoint, and yes, a couple years aside out of almost twenty years with Toyota, JGR was the only game in town until the 45 stepped up. I know you always want to paint Rick as some kind of bad guy, but people keep aligning themselves with him, and there has to be a reason for that. Dan Towriss has FU money like few others, but there is Spire, aligned with HMS. Gene Haas can do whatever he wants, but was and now is back aligned with Rick. Meanwhile, it never seems to end well for teams connected to JGR. I get the distinct impression even 23XI wishes it weren't.
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Why is an owner even talking to a driver of another team? Why did Stewart Hass leave The Pen? Besides Stewart Hass who eventually left, what other serious contender aligns with The Felon? ....and goodness, let's not dig up the whole Visser thing.....I have his quote somewhere around here.....not sure that I have ever heard anything out of 23XI lamenting the alliance, but I get it, the narrative. Why do people align with The Felon? Dude has power....let's talk about the Lemans car which was done behind both Toyota and Ford's backs.
 
Daytripper said:
Pretty much everybody in NASCAR or anybody that knows him has nothing except good things to say about Hendrick but good ol Rev still sticks to his guns that the man is Satan's spawn!
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Still has his knickers twisted over a Le Mans exhibition car while his Yoyos were winning the WEC championship.
 
Revman said:
Why is an owner even talking to a driver of another team? Why did Stewart Hass leave The Pen? Besides Stewart Hass who eventually left, what other serious contender aligns with The Felon? ....and goodness, let's not dig up the whole Visser thing.....I have his quote somewhere around here.....not sure that I have ever heard anything out of 23XI lamenting the alliance, but I get it, the narrative. Why do people align with The Felon? Dude has power....let's talk about the Lemans car which was done behind both Toyota and Ford's backs.
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Joe Gibbs has power, why does nobody seem to want to align with him? There are some rumblings about JGR-23XI, but Denny's connection to both keeps it under the radar. Haas left the HMS alliance because Ford threw a **** ton of money at them. How'd THAT work out? Why did the Garage 56 deal go to HMS? Go watch the video and tell me with a straight face that any other NASCAR team could have pulled that deal off as well as HMS did. The level of commitment was 150%, from the testing schedule, to winning the pit crew competition to the laps times to getting the car back on the track when they didn't have to, it was the Normandy Invasion of one off racing projects. The only thing that comes close to my mind is the Penske/Illmor pushrod Indy project.
 
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Revman said:
Why is an owner even talking to a driver of another team? Why did Stewart Hass leave The Pen? Besides Stewart Hass who eventually left, what other serious contender aligns with The Felon? ....and goodness, let's not dig up the whole Visser thing.....I have his quote somewhere around here.....not sure that I have ever heard anything out of 23XI lamenting the alliance, but I get it, the narrative. Why do people align with The Felon? Dude has power....let's talk about the Lemans car which was done behind both Toyota and Ford's backs.
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If you owned a team, and someone who was getting help from you, wrecked your cars countless times, you would just accept that?
 
Blaze said:
If you owned a team, and someone who was getting help from you, wrecked your cars countless times, you would just accept that?
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If ChevroRick was upset with Justin Marks' driver, he should have talked to Marks....and Marks should have told him to kiss his ass. Do you think that Roger Penske is calling Larsony this week? I think The Felon might take issue with that.
Formerjackman said:
Go watch the video and tell me with a straight face that any other NASCAR team could have pulled that deal off as well as HMS did.
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Why did the project go to a team? TRD would have loved to have a shot at it, but that didn't happen because Jim decided that he would forget to tell David Wilson about it. That was bull****....and I will never watch that video. Ever. I am bitter.
StandOnIt said:
Revman and Hamlin are a lot alike.
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That is the most beautiful thing you have ever said to me. Thank you.
Charlie Spencer said:
But Hamlin doesn't post here.
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I wish.
Charlie Spencer said:
Still has his knickers twisted over a Le Mans exhibition car while his Yoyos were winning the WEC championship.
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They are.
Daytripper said:
Pretty much everybody in NASCAR or anybody that knows him has nothing except good things to say about Hendrick but good ol Rev still sticks to his guns that the man is Satan's spawn!
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He is very powerful, and he has a lot of ass kissers. Probably not a bad idea if you want to be in the industry. I am not in the industry.
 
Revman said:
If ChevroRick was upset with Justin Marks' driver, he should have talked to Marks....and Marks should have told him to kiss his ass. Do you think that Roger Penske is calling Larsony this week? I think The Felon might take issue with that.
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Rev remember you promised to not use these silly nicknames with me, because I don't disrespect Joe by calling him the Preacher when talking to you. Don't break your promise.

The point is, Rick helps out Trackhouee, one of their drivers kept wrecking his drivers. It wasn't a one time deal, it was multiple times. You're telling me if you were a car owner, you would be fine with the same guy repeatedly taking out your cars?
 
Blaze said:
Rev remember you promised to not use these silly nicknames with me, because I don't disrespect Joe by calling him the Preacher when talking to you. Don't break your promise.

The point is, Rick helps out Trackhouee, one of their drivers kept wrecking his drivers. It wasn't a one time deal, it was multiple times. You're telling me if you were a car owner, you would be fine with the same guy repeatedly taking out your cars?
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I would talk to his boss. Lost track of that deal, but it seems reasonable. Apologies.
 
Blaze said:
Rev remember you promised to not use these silly nicknames with me, because I don't disrespect Joe by calling him the Preacher when talking to you. Don't break your promise.

The point is, Rick helps out Trackhouee, one of their drivers kept wrecking his drivers. It wasn't a one time deal, it was multiple times. You're telling me if you were a car owner, you would be fine with the same guy repeatedly taking out your cars?
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How does Mr. H. help out Trackhouse....I thought the alliance was with RCR?
 
Revman said:
How does Mr. H. help out Trackhouse....I thought the alliance was with RCR?
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Trackhouse is the old Ganassi who along with Hendrick and RCR have privy to all of the OEM Chevy data and they work together. They aren't an affiliate. Teams like Spire and Kaulig are affiliates.
 
Revman said:
How does Mr. H. help out Trackhouse....I thought the alliance was with RCR?
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I had to Google to see as I didn't know. Seems Hendrick and ECR Engines merged in 2020 or something, or work closely together. But does seem maybe you are right. They use the ECR Engines.

So besides that, I still think Rick had every right not to be happy with his drivers being taken out
 
Blaze said:
I had to Google to see as I didn't know. Seems Hendrick and ECR Engines merged in 2020 or something, or work closely together. But does seem maybe you are right. They use the ECR Engines.

So besides that, I still think Rick had every right not to be happy with his drivers being taken out
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Fine. He is unhappy. Why is he talking to another owner's driver? Ross hasn't been the same since. He got intimidated. I forgot about that merger...or whatever it is....maybe Hendrick allows Richard to use the toilet when he is in the area or something.
 
StandOnIt said:
Trackhouse is the old Ganassi who along with Hendrick and RCR have privy to all of the OEM Chevy data and they work together. They aren't an affiliate. Teams like Spire and Kaulig are affiliates.
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So, not an affiliate, and this is the way Marks runs the show? The Felon has a heavy hand.
 
Formerjackman said:
Joe Gibbs has power, why does nobody seem to want to align with him?
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He does, but not so much that a team can operate on their own if they wish. All things ChevroRick go through The Felon I suspect.
 
Revman said:
Fine. He is unhappy. Why is he talking to another owner's driver? Ross hasn't been the same since. He got intimidated. I forgot about that merger...or whatever it is....maybe Hendrick allows Richard to use the toilet when he is in the area or something.
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As Justin Marks has explained, He came to cup because of the Next Gen car. They all started out pretty even and Trackhouse was doing pretty well. But as we saw, it didn't take long to see the big boys were finding tweaks and terks that gave them more speed and his Trackhouse group of cars weren't those. Nice story though.
 
Revman said:
Fine. He is unhappy. Why is he talking to another owner's driver? Ross hasn't been the same since. He got intimidated. I forgot about that merger...or whatever it is....maybe Hendrick allows Richard to use the toilet when he is in the area or something.
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I have a strong feeling, if Joe Gibbs did this, you would be praising it as being an amazing owner who sticks up for his drivers.
 
Blaze said:
I have a strong feeling, if Joe Gibbs did this, you would be praising it as being an amazing owner who sticks up for his drivers.
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I am not so sure. I am a Toyota homer. I don't like that Coach was resistant to the Legacy Tier 1 program. I didn't love how Coach responded to the Indy Cowboy incident.
 
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