Cup RACE thread --- Kansas

ChexOrWrex

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I mean, that happens all the time though. There's been plenty of cautions during the middle of a green flag pit cycle and no one complained before. But now we're in this spot where we're supposed to hold two conflicting thoughts in our head. 1) Tyler Reddick's crew can't simply go out and retrieve the tire because what if they get hit? They can't leave the tire out there because what if a car hit the tire and it hits someone else? 2) NASCAR was right to let the lead lap cars pit cycle through so it'd be fair.

Like, if it was a safety issue as laid out in #1, then the caution should've come out immediately, regardless of the pit cycle. If it wasn't a safety issue and NASCAR felt like the tire was fine until the pit cycle was done, then they should've let Tyler Reddick's crew run out and get the tire. NASCAR could've easily close down pit row to allow the tire to be retrieved. The whole thing would've taken 10 seconds.
If the yellow was shown as soon as the tire was in the infield, it would make more sense. It would have been no different than a wreck on the track in the middle of green flag stops. Nobody bats an eye at that because it is apart of racing.

What NASCAR basically did today was decide whose pit strategies would work and whose wouldn’t.
 

Spotter22

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You're the only one here on a discussion forum where people are posting their opinions that continues to post merely to **** on the views of others, calling people names and being rude when unprovoked, and not even offering a countpoint to add to the discussion. The only one here for drama is you.
Counter point was stated. Look for it
 

Nitro Dude

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If I'm not mistaken, after todays race there are only three A-list teams left that haven't won yet this year the 4, 11, and 9.
 

Turtle84

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If the yellow was shown as soon as the tire was in the infield, it would make more sense. It would have been no different than a wreck on the track in the middle of green flag stops. Nobody bats an eye at that because it is apart of racing.

What NASCAR basically did today was decide whose pit strategies would work and whose wouldn’t.

 

Michfan

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Exactly. I don't know how people can see that as anything except for race manipulation especially considering that all the time they throw the yellow out just for a car brushing the wall. Then we have an actual hazard and they stay green until the time is right? As if the hazard is only hazard enough for a yellow pending on the scoring page? The timing and scoring/letting it cycle through is irrelevant for any yellow flag situation.
Anybody with a lick of common sense understands this, however common sense isn't all that common. If a tire in the grass warrants a caution then throw the caution right then. If it's dangerous then it's dangerous. How tf can nascar know when a car might crash and hit that tire?
 

StandOnIt

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Matty D with a 4th, Good finishes for RCR's Reddick 7th and Dillion 10th, Roush's Buescher 8th. Byron continues his string of top 10 finishes.

 

Mile501

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I usually post statistical tidbits like these on Racing Reference, but with the comment section going away over there, I thought I'd try posting here instead. I joined this forum a few years ago to help someone finish a contest near the end of a season, but I haven't been here much since.

Kyle Busch has 1 win in 17 consecutive seasons and is on track to tie Richard Petty's record next year, although his streak was nearly broken last year. He also very narrowly picked up a lone win in 2014.

In 8 of the last 9 races, Matt DiBenedetto finished higher than he did in the previous race. He has also leaped from 37th to 16th in points during that time.

William Byron keeps his impressive top 10 streak alive, scoring his 9th consecutive top 10 finish.

Austin Dillon has scored 3 consecutive top 10 finishes for the first time in his career, although all of those finishes were just barely in the top 10 (10th, 8th, 10th).

New team Trackhouse Racing continues to impress. Daniel Suarez finished 11th at Kansas, his 6th top 20 finish of the season. He ranks a solid 22nd in points.
 

ChexOrWrex

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I usually post statistical tidbits like these on Racing Reference, but with the comment section going away over there, I thought I'd try posting here instead. I joined this forum a few years ago to help someone finish a contest near the end of a season, but I haven't been here much since.

Kyle Busch has 1 win in 17 consecutive seasons and is on track to tie Richard Petty's record next year, although his streak was nearly broken last year. He also very narrowly picked up a lone win in 2014.

In 8 of the last 9 races, Matt DiBenedetto finished higher than he did in the previous race. He has also leaped from 37th to 16th in points during that time.

William Byron keeps his impressive top 10 streak alive, scoring his 9th consecutive top 10 finish.

Austin Dillon has scored 3 consecutive top 10 finishes for the first time in his career, although all of those finishes were just barely in the top 10 (10th, 8th, 10th).

New team Trackhouse Racing continues to impress. Daniel Suarez finished 11th at Kansas, his 6th top 20 finish of the season. He ranks a solid 22nd in points.
Welcome aboard.
 

donthaveanickname

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I usually post statistical tidbits like these on Racing Reference, but with the comment section going away over there, I thought I'd try posting here instead. I joined this forum a few years ago to help someone finish a contest near the end of a season, but I haven't been here much since.

Kyle Busch has 1 win in 17 consecutive seasons and is on track to tie Richard Petty's record next year, although his streak was nearly broken last year. He also very narrowly picked up a lone win in 2014.

In 8 of the last 9 races, Matt DiBenedetto finished higher than he did in the previous race. He has also leaped from 37th to 16th in points during that time.

William Byron keeps his impressive top 10 streak alive, scoring his 9th consecutive top 10 finish.

Austin Dillon has scored 3 consecutive top 10 finishes for the first time in his career, although all of those finishes were just barely in the top 10 (10th, 8th, 10th).

New team Trackhouse Racing continues to impress. Daniel Suarez finished 11th at Kansas, his 6th top 20 finish of the season. He ranks a solid 22nd in points.
Welcome, I've been reading your comments on RR for years.
What the heck happened to that site? First they dropped the blogs then the latest comments were hidden from the main page, now the comment section is gone entirely...
 

DIDIT

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Yeah if a car slid through the grass and hit that tire and launched in to a pit what would you say.
My guess is that the odds of a car sliding through the grass, hitting the tire and launching it to a pit is higher than a possible serious wreck caused by NASCAR throwing a caution, bunching up 40 race cars for a double file restart with 30 laps remaining.
Is it really just about safety? If so, I would take the risk of someone hitting the tire over a mad dash crash.
 

Spotter22

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My guess is that the odds of a car sliding through the grass, hitting the tire and launching it to a pit is higher than a possible serious wreck caused by NASCAR throwing a caution, bunching up 40 race cars for a double file restart with 30 laps remaining.
Is it really just about safety? If so, I would take the risk of someone hitting the tire over a mad dash crash.
Elton Sawyer explained it perfectly on Sirius radio this morning. Maybe I can find the transcript or an audio cut.
 

harkin

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I usually post statistical tidbits like these on Racing Reference, but with the comment section going away over there, I thought I'd try posting here instead. I joined this forum a few years ago..........
Welcome to the party pal!
 

ChexOrWrex

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I found this

Problem is they didn’t complete the pit stop sequence. They threw the flag before the #17 and #47 completed their stops and cycled back into the field.

Those two teams were banking on a yellow before they had to pit. They saw the tire out and planned for that to be the yellow, so they stayed on the track. Their strategy was the right call. NASCAR decided against that and waited to throw the yellow only when they pitted, benefitting everyone else.

Whether it was intentional or not, NASCAR manipulated the end of the race to benefit one set of teams over another.
 

StandOnIt

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From the NASCAR rulebook

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Nitro Dude

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I didn't watch the race yesterday but I listened to it and I heard Bowman banged the wall and I thought maybe he had over driven it a little... but then I watched a recap of the race today and I see it was just another bad luck moment for the 48 team. I didn't know that the 23 car got out of control and knocked him into the wall. It seems like just about every race this year something happens to Bowman that validates why I put very little value on finishing position statistics to rate a driver.
 

StandOnIt

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I didn't watch the race yesterday but I listened to it and I heard Bowman banged the wall and I thought maybe he had over driven it a little... but then I watched a recap of the race today and I see it was just another bad luck moment for the 48 team. I didn't know that the 23 car got out of control and knocked him into the wall. It seems like just about every race this year something happens to Bowman that validates why I put very little value on finishing position statistics to rate a driver.
The track was really tricky and Bowman and Byron had balance problems. Bowman was mired mid pack most of the race. Not the place to be.
 

Nitro Dude

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The track was really tricky and Bowman and Byron had balance problems. Bowman was mired mid pack most of the race. Not the place to be.
Yep, it's always a crap shoot when they are in the middle of the pack and especially when they are on the outside lane where cars that head towards the wall can collect them like the 23 did yesterday. There has been so many times this year that the 48 would make a run for the front and then get sent back due to a pit mistake or a slow pit stop and then get collected up in a crash that was no fault of Bowman's. Harvick was back there a lot yesterday also but he ended up with a pretty good finish.
 

StandOnIt

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Yep, it's always a crap shoot when they are in the middle of the pack and especially when they are on the outside lane where cars that head towards the wall can collect them like the 23 did yesterday. There has been so many times this year that the 48 would make a run for the front and then get sent back due to a pit mistake or a slow pit stop and then get collected up in a crash that was no fault of Bowman's. Harvick was back there a lot yesterday also but he ended up with a pretty good finish.
Harvick got an exceptional call for four tires late in the race. He thought it was a bad call, but Rodney was on it. I think he started 8th for the GWC and with better tires he came up thru there for a 2nd place.
 

Mile501

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Welcome, I've been reading your comments on RR for years.
What the heck happened to that site? First they dropped the blogs then the latest comments were hidden from the main page, now the comment section is gone entirely...
Thank you! Apparently all those changes were brought about by NASCAR itself, who took over ownership of RR a few years ago. As best we can figure out, they haven't taken too kindly to some of the discussion on their that is negative towards NASCAR, so they made the decision to shut down comments. (Actually, you can still comment, but only if you access the direct URL. For example: https://www.racing-reference.info/comments?id=2021-11&s=W)
 

StandOnIt

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Thank you! Apparently all those changes were brought about by NASCAR itself, who took over ownership of RR a few years ago. As best we can figure out, they haven't taken too kindly to some of the discussion on their that is negative towards NASCAR, so they made the decision to shut down comments. (Actually, you can still comment, but only if you access the direct URL. For example: https://www.racing-reference.info/comments?id=2021-11&s=W)
They used to have a graph set up that you could plug in up to three cars/drivers and track on a line graph their positions thruout the race. I miss that. That was awhile back when they removed that but it sure was an interesting tool to see the ups and downs.
 

StandOnIt

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I didn't watch the race yesterday but I listened to it and I heard Bowman banged the wall and I thought maybe he had over driven it a little... but then I watched a recap of the race today and I see it was just another bad luck moment for the 48 team. I didn't know that the 23 car got out of control and knocked him into the wall. It seems like just about every race this year something happens to Bowman that validates why I put very little value on finishing position statistics to rate a driver.
 

Nitro Dude

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One of the things I always liked about Alex is he doesn't get all pissed off and throw tantrums and dish on his crew. He actually tries to motivate them and keep their spirits up when things don't go well. Just like in this video he is just explaining to his fans what was happening yesterday and then he started thinking about next week. I remember a few weeks ago when he won Richmond he had started at the back and he came to the front during stage 1 and then on a pit stop they got an uncontrolled tire penalty and he ended way back in the pack again. When they told him on the radio about the penalty all he said was no problem I will just pass them again...which he did and won. Now that is a classy guy... and probably one that a lot of other crew chiefs and crewmembers would love to have as their driver. ;)
 
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hmmm298

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If I'm not mistaken, after todays race there are only three A-list teams left that haven't won yet this year the 4, 11, and 9.
Of course even as bad as they are running currently, Almirola or really any of SHR is always a threat to steal one as well. Think Cole Custer's win last year.
 

Nitro Dude

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Of course even as bad as they are running currently, Almirola or really any of SHR is always a threat to steal one as well. Think Cole Custer's win last year.
I agree. When I say A-lister I'm talking about past champions and drivers that run up front on a weekly basis and are expected to win multiple races a year.
 
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