Cup vs Xfinity vs Trucks

O

OldTimer

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Just curious as to what people think in regard to the racing in the different classes of NASCAR.
Personally, I have been drawn more towards Xfinity and the Trucks in the last few years. Between them it is a tossup. Have realized that I do not even bother recording the Cup races anymore, if I miss them, I miss them... just check the highlights online.
 
I think Cup has been really good the past couple years. Probably the best since 2014ish.

Same with Xfinity and Trucks, honestly. Nothing will ever top the '90s (IMO) but this certainly beats what we were watching 15 years ago
 
Trucks are too dependent on aero due to the large bodies and relatively low horsepower. I wish the Cup cars would lose the diffuser and under-tray, so it's a toss-up for me between Cup and Xfinity, especially on the speedways.
 
Between the three top Nascar series, I have been convinced that a good race can break out in any of the three series on a given weekend. It has been proven many times to me so I try to catch all three. I don't think I can pick the best, lately all three levels have been putting on some really good racing. The teams have worked most of the bugs out of the NexGen car itself. Nascar still has work to do on their end. It's ever changing in the cup. I hear they might be going to composite bodies in the trucks.
 
I've said it a hundred times, and I'll say it a hundred more.....

1. More horsepower
2. Adjust the trans/gearing as necessary
3. SOFTER TIRES!!!!!!!

Luckily, I think Goodyear finally grew a set and they seem willing to provide tires that give us great racing
 
2 Sweet said:
I've said it a hundred times, and I'll say it a hundred more.....

1. More horsepower
2. Adjust the trans/gearing as necessary
3. SOFTER TIRES!!!!!!!

Luckily, I think Goodyear finally grew a set and they seem willing to provide tires that give us great racing
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I can't blame Goodyear. They had a little bit of flaking causing one or two drivers to think they had a loose wheel and the booth jumped all over it. Goodyear this and Goodyear that. The booth should have been saying positive things like tire management, better air pressure or car setup, saying it's an advantage to teams that can manage it...and it was. This stuff has to be sold, it's what the fans want.
 
2 Sweet said:
I think Cup has been really good the past couple years. Probably the best since 2014ish.
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This is where I disagree. While the aero situation is an ongoing issue, the single biggest problems I have with the Cup series is the ones NASCAR mandated. The IMCA style wheel/tire does not belong in this type of racing. They should not determine a race to the extent that they do. NASCAR should not penalize crews or teams because of something mechanical they mandated. It is an aberration to the type of racing NASCAR presents. Go to 16" 5 lug wheels (still big enough for the larger brakes) with enough sidewall to keep the vehicle off the pavement when flat. Get rid of the belly pan and diffuser, sure did not look like it worked when cars are still flipping.
 
OldTimer said:
This is where I disagree. While the aero situation is an ongoing issue, the single biggest problems I have with the Cup series is the ones NASCAR mandated. The IMCA style wheel/tire does not belong in this type of racing. They should not determine a race to the extent that they do. NASCAR should not penalize crews or teams because of something mechanical they mandated. It is an aberration to the type of racing NASCAR presents. Go to 16" 5 lug wheels (still big enough for the larger brakes) with enough sidewall to keep the vehicle off the pavement when flat. Get rid of the belly pan and diffuser, sure did not look like it worked when cars are still flipping.
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Seems like there were more cars flipping without the belly pan. Of course in the ever changing car more anti flip measures were instituted as time goes on and that has helped along with better driver protection. If it is harder to do that seems to be Nascar's direction in cup. They made the cars harder to drive and that wasn't forgotten in the pits.
Cars run 4 and sometimes 5 wide at 180. I don't think there is much of an aero problem or it wouldn't be possible like it was when the twisted sisters were on the tracks. They had terrible aero dependency.
 
I think Cup is king. Better equipment, better drivers, better racing throughout the field. My interest in both trucks and X seem to fluctuate during the year. Early on I watch them all, but as the season progresses they become hit or miss. There is nothing wrong with small teams trying to make a go of it and I support them, but there appears to be a big discrepancy between the top truck/X teams to the bottom half. All that said, I do like how there are so many different winners in the lower series.
 
OldTimer said:
This is where I disagree. While the aero situation is an ongoing issue, the single biggest problems I have with the Cup series is the ones NASCAR mandated. The IMCA style wheel/tire does not belong in this type of racing. They should not determine a race to the extent that they do. NASCAR should not penalize crews or teams because of something mechanical they mandated. It is an aberration to the type of racing NASCAR presents. Go to 16" 5 lug wheels (still big enough for the larger brakes) with enough sidewall to keep the vehicle off the pavement when flat. Get rid of the belly pan and diffuser, sure did not look like it worked when cars are still flipping.
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How many race outcomes have been determined by the wheel / tire combination currently in use?

16” wheels, steel or otherwise, won’t clear the NextGen brake package and the current hubs wouldn’t work.
 
Trucks have been my favorite series since the 90’s because I feel like the overall racing is better. I was never a fan of Xfinity/Busch until the last few years and Cup has always been hit-and-miss depending on the season
 
Cup has the best field and highest quality of racing without a doubt. Factoring in the race distance makes it even more impressive.

Xfinity puts the best short track show on and the short race lengths lead to quite a bit of aggression

Truck has great 1.5+ racing due to the large greenhouse creating an IndyCar like slipstream. It also tends to get a little too "crashy" due to the average of driver

As @DIDIT said, Cup is still easily the gold standard
 
RacerrecaR said:
Trucks have been my favorite series since the 90’s because I feel like the overall racing is better. I was never a fan of Xfinity/Busch until the last few years and Cup has always been hit-and-miss depending on the season
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The trucks are fun to watch partly because of the shorter lengths of the races and that adds an air of urgency to them I think. The Truck drivers have to get after it from the get go with very little room for error which at that level heaps tons of pressure on everybody.
 
along with more horsepower n softer tires.

stage racing is boring, except for the last few laps.

teams race to stage breaks......if they miss the setup, they ride it out hoping to stay on the lead lap.
there are no green flag strategy changes done to cars, the fear of going down a lap makes them race to a stage break.

to fix that!
no tires or gas on stage breaks. this includes the 2 laps prior and 2 laps after a planned stage break.
A tire and gas stop must start and end under green flag condition, unless an unplanned caution happens.
on unplanned cautions anything goes.
if an unplanned caution carries into a stage break then sure anything goes.
 
aunty dive said:
16” wheels, steel or otherwise, won’t clear the NextGen brake package and the current hubs wouldn’t work.
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The 12.7" rotors will fit, including the calipers inside a 16" wheel. Hubs are no big deal whether forged or billet the same amount of material, same bearings, same seals will work, just punch out the five positioning stubs and put studs in.
 
What is the diameter of the “circle” created with the calipers bolted in place? How much clearance would there be between the calipers and the 16” wheels?

The hubs locate the wheels with 6 drive pins, not 5. Loose / errant wheels are caused by human error, not bad design. Just like the moldy old days.
 
2 Sweet said:
I've said it a hundred times, and I'll say it a hundred more.....

1. More horsepower
2. Adjust the trans/gearing as necessary
3. SOFTER TIRES!!!!!!!

Luckily, I think Goodyear finally grew a set and they seem willing to provide tires that give us great racing
Click to expand...

I agree

The car needs to be hard to drive. There’s a reason why Darlington was so fun to watch. Driving a stock car shouldn’t be a cake walk.
 
Trucks are spec, so I don't really care. Xfinity looks old...not sure the current crop of drivers interest me. Cup is the deal. Live for it.
 
aunty dive said:
What is the diameter of the “circle” created with the calipers bolted in place? How much clearance would there be between the calipers and the 16” wheels?
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1" clearance between inner rim and furthest extent of the caliper when using a 16" wheel. Twice the recommended distance that the brake manufacture states. Still allows for flex and circulation. Keep in mind, during development of the spec they experimented with five lug, 16" wheels and did not have an issue with them.
But.... since the 16" wheel/tire combo would have still required a "new" tire NASCAR took the stance that if we are going to change, might as well go big change.
Why the 18" BBS wheel? A person I know (fellow engineer) that worked on the development, said there was a lot of lobbying going on.
For some reason, the sporty car crowd has infiltrated the roundy round car crowd and either pushed the old guard out or caught their ear, pushing the tech guys to the left (my own opinion as to what construes "left"). It was not only the IMSA contingent as there was a push from overseas too, why they would have a say is beyond me.
Blaming the crew is myopic and not the root cause. The root cause is wheel attachment. Whether there are six drive pins, twelve drive pins, or whatever, it would be pretty simple for the hub manufacture to drill five holes instead and press in studs.
How many Xfinity or Truck vehicles lose their wheels? Do not have the stat but would guess that the Cup cars have wheel issues ten times more than either Xfinity or Truck. Besides, both of those series can drive their vehicles back to the pits much easier.
 
OldTimer said:
1" clearance between inner rim and furthest extent of the caliper when using a 16" wheel. Twice the recommended distance that the brake manufacture states. Still allows for flex and circulation. Keep in mind, during development of the spec they experimented with five lug, 16" wheels and did not have an issue with them.
But.... since the 16" wheel/tire combo would have still required a "new" tire NASCAR took the stance that if we are going to change, might as well go big change.
Why the 18" BBS wheel? A person I know (fellow engineer) that worked on the development, said there was a lot of lobbying going on.
For some reason, the sporty car crowd has infiltrated the roundy round car crowd and either pushed the old guard out or caught their ear, pushing the tech guys to the left (my own opinion as to what construes "left"). It was not only the IMSA contingent as there was a push from overseas too, why they would have a say is beyond me.
Blaming the crew is myopic and not the root cause. The root cause is wheel attachment. Whether there are six drive pins, twelve drive pins, or whatever, it would be pretty simple for the hub manufacture to drill five holes instead and press in studs.
How many Xfinity or Truck vehicles lose their wheels? Do not have the stat but would guess that the Cup cars have wheel issues ten times more than either Xfinity or Truck. Besides, both of those series can drive their vehicles back to the pits much easier.
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Excellent post.

The development and inventory dollars have been and will continue to be spent … by NASCAR, the teams and especially Goodyear.

There’s no going back.
 
Naitch said:
I agree

The car needs to be hard to drive. There’s a reason why Darlington was so fun to watch. Driving a stock car shouldn’t be a cake walk.
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I don't think these cars are easy to drive. I would argue Cup cars are still the hardest to drive by a good bit. You have to remember this is the only among the three series that is symmetrical. Not having a yawed out car through the corners makes it much tougher to hold onto it
 
Yeah, I don't know how many indicators it takes for some to figure out the Cup cars are a handful to drive. Numerous drivers, very successful in their series, some of them are multi champions, get in a cup car and struggle. On the other hand they get in an Xfinity car and do pretty decent. They have to drive Cup cars right on the edge in the corners to be fast, and be able to read the aero and bumps in the corners if in traffic to turn a decent lap. How many spin outs and wall shots coming out of the corners happen during a single race on an oval?
 
aunty dive said:
There’s no going back.
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You are probably correct, but there is precedence for revision of specific mechanical missteps, like the wheel/tire combo. Nascar has in the past corrected aspects that were already paid for. Would not worry about development funds, the 16" five lug was also in the development and did not bring up any issues. Inventory is what it is, the pre NextGen inventories were higher than they are now.
 
aunty dive said:
What other classes of cars use them? How much do those cars weigh?
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The 18" tires, again, different compounds (due to weight of course, or because they have to run entire races with them) are used in Europe, Australia, South America, etc on sports car circuits. If I am not mistaken, SCCA uses them also. 16" tires are also used in other series, again, the sporty thingies.
 
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