Dale Jr. IN A Death Spiral

Smoke14 said:
You left out 16th, 12th and 25th the last three years. There IS something going on with Jr and I hope someone figures it out.
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If you check my post you will see that I did list 12th. BTW, that now makes the chase.

Obviously something is going on with Jr and the team. What I disagree with are those that slam him and say he has no talent. Those types know little of racing. What is going on with kyle Bush, he didn't make the chase. Does that mean he has no talent. :rolleyes:
 
KB can win races, If every race were held at daytona or dega then jr. might have a chance
 
Wild Bill said:
KB can win races, If every race were held at daytona or dega then jr. might have a chance
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You don't finish 3rd or 5th in the points by only racing at Dega or Daytona.

As I stated, there is a problem right now. Once it gets straightened out Jr will be back in the Chase.
 
Wild Bill said:
KB can win races, If every race were held at daytona or dega then jr. might have a chance
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just goes to show how much you know,

jr has won at Dover, Richmond, Texas, Bristol, Charlotte (the Winston) Phoenix could be more but i really am not a jr fan so i could be leaving one out
 
Fact check: Dale Jr has won on a variety of tracks.

Cup (18 wins)
Richmond (3), Texas (1), Talladega (5), Dover (1), Daytona (2), Phoenix (2), Bristol (1), Atlanta (1), Chicagoland (1), Michigan (1).

Nationwide (22 wins)
Gateway (2), Richmond (3), IRP (1), Auto Club (1), Milwaukee Mile (1), Dover (2), Texas (1), Michigan (2), Watkins Glen (1), South Boston (1), Daytona (5), Talladega (1), Bristol (1).
 
foehammer111 said:
Fact check: Dale Jr has won on a variety of tracks.

Cup (18 wins)
Richmond (3), Texas (1), Talladega (5), Dover (1), Daytona (2), Phoenix (2), Bristol (1), Atlanta (1), Chicagoland (1), Michigan (1).

Nationwide (22 wins)
Gateway (2), Richmond (3), IRP (1), Auto Club (1), Milwaukee Mile (1), Dover (2), Texas (1), Michigan (2), Watkins Glen (1), South Boston (1), Daytona (5), Talladega (1), Bristol (1).
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Good bit of info there. Thanks foehammer. Of course there will always be the uninformed that think Jr only races at Dega or daytona. :D
 
Don't forget, if it wasn't for cussing in victory lane and a wreck at Atlanta with Busch in the Garage. Jr may have won the 04 Championship.

No talent, I guess.:sarcasm:
 
Stewart Fan said:
I would say that almost all of the stuff from them is BS but once in a blue moon they do put something true in there.

He just doesn't seem like he cares about racing.
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This December is indeed a true BLUE MOON month.
Check your calender,it is true,oh yes!!!
 
muggle not said:
If you check my post you will see that I did list 12th. BTW, that now makes the chase.

Obviously something is going on with Jr and the team. What I disagree with are those that slam him and say he has no talent. Those types know little of racing. What is going on with kyle Bush, he didn't make the chase. Does that mean he has no talent. :rolleyes:
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Muggle.. You are not allowed to say anything negative about Kyle. That makes us haters..remember? ;) Is it ok to say stuff if you do hate him tho'? :eek::cool:

I actually feel bad for Junior since so much is expected from him. We did enjoy not having to hear about him every two min. during a race this past yr., but that only got replaced with the Kyle and then Jimmie love. If I didn't know better, I'd think there were only about 10 cars on the track on Sunday. You know, the ones that were driving next to JJ?! They even changed their numbers at times, so I was a bit confused. LOL

I've never really disliked Jr, I just got sick of having to hear about him constantly during every race no matter where he was running. One thing I have noticed the last couple of years is how out of breath & wiped out he looked after races. None of the other guys seemed as bad off as he was and I questioned what kind of shape he was in.
 
foehammer111 said:
Fact check: Dale Jr has won on a variety of tracks.

Cup (18 wins)
Richmond (3), Texas (1), Talladega (5), Dover (1), Daytona (2), Phoenix (2), Bristol (1), Atlanta (1), Chicagoland (1), Michigan (1).

Nationwide (22 wins)
Gateway (2), Richmond (3), IRP (1), Auto Club (1), Milwaukee Mile (1), Dover (2), Texas (1), Michigan (2), Watkins Glen (1), South Boston (1), Daytona (5), Talladega (1), Bristol (1).
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Can someone compare this to Michael Waltrip wins?
 
M Waltrip

Cup (4 wins)
Daytona(3), Taladega(1)

Nationwide (11 wins)
Bristol(2), Charlotte(2), Darlington(1), Dover(2), IRP(1), Michigan(1), Nashville(1), Richmond(1)
 
So Jr. team mates finished 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the points. Earnhardt finished 25th. Maybe he just doesn't have the drive to try to be a good race car driver. I mean when your other team mates finished in the top three in points, and you didn't even get into the chase, you gotta figure that it's not the team, and it's not the crew chiefs. If it's not them, then maybe the problem exist with the person who sits behind the wheel.
 
SpeedPagan said:
So Jr. team mates finished 1st, 2nd, and 3rd in the points. Earnhardt finished 25th. Maybe he just doesn't have the drive to try to be a good race car driver. I mean when your other team mates finished in the top three in points, and you didn't even get into the chase, you gotta figure that it's not the team, and it's not the crew chiefs. If it's not them, then maybe the problem exist with the person who sits behind the wheel.
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I know this would never happen, but..... If Knaus moved to the 88 car this next year I would be willing to bet Jr would make the chase and also a big statement next year.

I am waiting to see what Rick is going to do.

And, I am dang glad to be home. :beerbang:

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
 
This issue has been frug up so many times it's not even funny, but here's my thought about why Jr. just isn't performing well anymore.

From the time he was a kid, until he started driving for his dad, he had someone who he was looking up to and trying to impress. That very important figure is now gone. Sure, he kept going strong for a while, but the further away that memory gets, the less he is striving for it. He was always trying to live up to his fathers expectations, but those expectations are long gone now.

He doesn't need to live up the the fans expectations, because the fans just keep voting him more popular every year. Doesn't need to impress any sponsors, he's already got those eating out of his hand. Doesn't need to impress any car owners, 'cause he's already working for the best there is.

So basically, he needs something, or someone, to light a fire under his ass. Because the fire that was there is just a distant memory, and gets more distant with each passing year.
 
VaDirt said:
This issue has been frug up so many times it's not even funny, but here's my thought about why Jr. just isn't performing well anymore.

From the time he was a kid, until he started driving for his dad, he had someone who he was looking up to and trying to impress. That very important figure is now gone. Sure, he kept going strong for a while, but the further away that memory gets, the less he is striving for it. He was always trying to live up to his fathers expectations, but those expectations are long gone now.

He doesn't need to live up the the fans expectations, because the fans just keep voting him more popular every year. Doesn't need to impress any sponsors, he's already got those eating out of his hand. Doesn't need to impress any car owners, 'cause he's already working for the best there is.

So basically, he needs something, or someone, to light a fire under his ass. Because the fire that was there is just a distant memory, and gets more distant with each passing year.
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Right on! Eury SR kicked his butt and kept him in line. The SR's (Both Dale and Tony are not coming back) kicked Jr's backside. It is going to take a STRONG CC to get Dale back into racing. Can you say "Ray Evernham"? ;)
 
They already changed crew chiefs once, I doubt another change would improve anything.
 
I would like to see the #48 and #88 teams swap and see what happens. I bet JJ wins and JR still finishes 16th every week.
 
Stewart Fan said:
I would like to see the #48 and #88 teams swap and see what happens. I bet JJ wins and JR still finishes 16th every week.
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I dunno, one of the reason JJ is so successful is because of Knaus, take that away, then you may see a different, less successful JJ. However, I doubt Knaus can work with Jr. JJ knows his car inside and out, and can tell Knaus exactly what is wrong and what needs to be adjusted. I think Jr. has problems on that front.
 
foehammer111 said:
Fact check: Dale Jr has won on a variety of tracks.

Cup (18 wins)
Richmond (3), Texas (1), Talladega (5), Dover (1), Daytona (2), Phoenix (2), Bristol (1), Atlanta (1), Chicagoland (1), Michigan (1).

Nationwide (22 wins)
Gateway (2), Richmond (3), IRP (1), Auto Club (1), Milwaukee Mile (1), Dover (2), Texas (1), Michigan (2), Watkins Glen (1), South Boston (1), Daytona (5), Talladega (1), Bristol (1).
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Once again, take a look at the info dug up by foehammer. why do so many close their eyes to those facts. Is it because they are "bashers' and hoping for Jr to fail.
 
muggle not said:
Hmmm, an average finish of 12 th. That puts him right alongside of Tony stewart who has a career average finish of 12.5. :D

btw, reading the previous post to mine. Where do all the non-experts come from. :)
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Agreed, some may want to re check those stats....
For Jr

In the 8 car Jr had a average of 16.38 with 291 races and 41 DNF's
In the 88 car Jr has a " of 18.65 with 72 starts and 7 DNF's

For Stewart

In the 20 car he had a average of 12.72 with 356 races and 34 DNF's
In the 14 car he has a average of 10.44 with 36 races and 1 DNF
 
muggle not said:
Once again, take a look at the info dug up by foehammer. why do so many close their eyes to those facts. Is it because they are "bashers' and hoping for Jr to fail.
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Pull out the restrictor plates races as they are just crapshoots (that's why I asked about Mikey's Wins.) and it doesn't look all that hot for a career as long as Jr's.
 
sloggie said:
Pull out the restrictor plates races as they are just crapshoots (that's why I asked about Mikey's Wins.) and it doesn't look all that hot for a career as long as Jr's.
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OK 38% of his wins are on plate tracks. so your sayin the othere 61% of his wins were a crapshoot ?

like i said i'm not a real big fan of jr's but at least i can see
 
de7xwcc said:
OK 38% of his wins are on plate tracks. so your sayin the othere 61% of his wins were a crapshoot ?

like i said i'm not a real big fan of jr's but at least i can see
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I didn't mean to come off that stongly. I'm just saying that I think he has average talent at best.
 
There is something going on with Jr.

Look at it this way, of those drivers that started all thirty-six races this year, Jr only beat six of them. Casey Mears beat him as did Dinger, Reutimann, Logano, McMurray, and Truex. He has only won three races in the past five years.

You should have heard Bob Margolis on Sirius radio this past Saturday.
 
sloggie said:
I didn't mean to come off that stongly. I'm just saying that I think he has average talent at best.
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yeah right, and average talent has:


Quote:
Originally Posted by foehammer111
Fact check: Dale Jr has won on a variety of tracks.

Cup (18 wins)
Richmond (3), Texas (1), Talladega (5), Dover (1), Daytona (2), Phoenix (2), Bristol (1), Atlanta (1), Chicagoland (1), Michigan (1).

Nationwide (22 wins)
Gateway (2), Richmond (3), IRP (1), Auto Club (1), Milwaukee Mile (1), Dover (2), Texas (1), Michigan (2), Watkins Glen (1), South Boston (1), Daytona (5), Talladega (1), Bristol (1).
 
Smoke14 said:
There is something going on with Jr.

Look at it this way, of those drivers that started all thirty-six races this year, Jr only beat six of them. Casey Mears beat him as did Dinger, Reutimann, Logano, McMurray, and Truex. He has only won three races in the past five years.

You should have heard Bob Margolis on Sirius radio this past Saturday.
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I don't listen to Bob Margolis. :)

Junyer had great runs performance wise from Indianapolis on out... just really ****ty luck. Usually ended up getting caught up in someone else's wreck.

Harvick hasn't won a race since 2007... I guess he should hang it up as well:rolleyes:
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I don't listen to Bob Margolis. :)

Junyer had great runs performance wise from Indianapolis on out... just really ****ty luck. Usually ended up getting caught up in someone else's wreck.

Harvick hasn't won a race since 2007... I guess he should hang it up as well:rolleyes:
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I did not say he should hang it up, I said something is going on with him. Jr has had three bad years in a row. Someone will get to the bottom of this and my money is on Mr. Hendrick.
 
My money is Mr. Hendrick will let Jr. go for another driver.
 
Smoke14 said:
I did not say he should hang it up, I said something is going on with him. Jr has had three bad years in a row. Someone will get to the bottom of this and my money is on Mr. Hendrick.
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I was thinking about this today at work. Is the problem Jr or something else? I came to the conclusion that the only way to tell would be to look at his performance over the years as compared to his teammates and see how he ranks.

That would take a lot of effort to do that kind of research though
 
sloggie said:
I was thinking about this today at work. Is the problem Jr or something else? I came to the conclusion that the only way to tell would be to look at his performance over the years as compared to his teammates and see how he ranks.

That would take a lot of effort to do that kind of research though
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Six Hendrick cars on the track this year and five of them made the chase. This speaks volumes to me. Jr. was a great driver not too many years ago but the last three years he has not produced.

I just can't see Mr. Hendrick giving up on him soon considering the sponsor money he brings in.
 
Smoke14 said:
Six Hendrick cars on the track this year and five of them made the chase. This speaks volumes to me. Jr. was a great driver not too many years ago but the last three years he has not produced.

I just can't see Mr. Hendrick giving up on him soon considering the sponsor money he brings in.
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OK, I'm a sucker, and I did the research.

In 2000,
Dale JR: 2w, 3 T5, 5 T10
Steve Park: 1w, 6 T5, 13 T10
Best driver in 2000 is Steve Park.

In 2001,
Dale JR: 3w, 9 t5, 15 t10
Steve Park/Kenny Wallace: 1w, 6 t5, 14 t10
Michael Waltrip: 1w, 3 t5, 3 t10
Best Driver in 2001 is JR

In 2002
Dale JR 2w, 11 t5, 16 t10
Steve Park/Kenny Wallace: 0w, 0 t5, 3 t10
Michael Waltrip: 1 w, 4 t5, 10 t10
Best Driver in 2002 is Jr

In 2003
Dale JR 2w, 13 t5, 21t10
Steve Park/ Kenny Wallace/Jason Keller/John Andretti 0w, 0 t5, 1 t10
Michael Waltrip 2w, 8 t5, 11 t10
Best driver in 2003 is Jr (but it's close)

2004
JR 6w 16 t5 21 t10
Michael Waltrip 2w, 8 t5, 11 t10
Best driver in 2004 is Jr

2005
JR 1w 7 t5 13 t10
Michael Waltrip 0w, 3 t5, 7 t10
Best driver in 2005 is Jr

2006
Jr 1w, 10 t5, 17 t10
Truex 0w, 2 t5, 5 t10
Best driver is Jr

2007
Jr 0w, 7 t5, 12 t10
Truex 1w, 7 t5, 14 t10
Best driver is Truex

2008
Jr 1w 10 t5 16 t10
Casey Mears 0w 6 t5, 20 t10
Jimmy Johnson 7w, 15 t5, 22, t10
Jeff Gordon 0w, 13t5, 19t10
Best drivers are clearly JJ and Gordon

So in summary, JR has outdriven Mikey, Steve Park, and Martin Truex when he was a rookie. Also, he consistently wins 1 or 2 races a season, only exceeding that twice.
 
sloggie said:
OK, I'm a sucker, and I did the research.

In 2000,
Dale JR: 2w, 3 T5, 5 T10
Steve Park: 1w, 6 T5, 13 T10
Best driver in 2000 is Steve Park.

In 2001,
Dale JR: 3w, 9 t5, 15 t10
Steve Park/Kenny Wallace: 1w, 6 t5, 14 t10
Michael Waltrip: 1w, 3 t5, 3 t10
Best Driver in 2001 is JR

In 2002
Dale JR 2w, 11 t5, 16 t10
Steve Park/Kenny Wallace: 0w, 0 t5, 3 t10
Michael Waltrip: 1 w, 4 t5, 10 t10
Best Driver in 2002 is Jr

In 2003
Dale JR 2w, 13 t5, 21t10
Steve Park/ Kenny Wallace/Jason Keller/John Andretti 0w, 0 t5, 1 t10
Michael Waltrip 2w, 8 t5, 11 t10
Best driver in 2003 is Jr (but it's close)

2004
JR 6w 16 t5 21 t10
Michael Waltrip 2w, 8 t5, 11 t10
Best driver in 2004 is Jr

2005
JR 1w 7 t5 13 t10
Michael Waltrip 0w, 3 t5, 7 t10
Best driver in 2005 is Jr

2006
Jr 1w, 10 t5, 17 t10
Truex 0w, 2 t5, 5 t10
Best driver is Jr

2007
Jr 0w, 7 t5, 12 t10
Truex 1w, 7 t5, 14 t10
Best driver is Truex

2008
Jr 1w 10 t5 16 t10
Casey Mears 0w 6 t5, 20 t10
Jimmy Johnson 7w, 15 t5, 22, t10
Jeff Gordon 0w, 13t5, 19t10
Best drivers are clearly JJ and Gordon

So in summary, JR has outdriven Mikey, Steve Park, and Martin Truex when he was a rookie. Also, he consistently wins 1 or 2 races a season, only exceeding that twice.
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It took me a while to digest this but I now see what you did. Now go back and average the season ending finish by driver. Compare all of the drivers since Jr. came up to cup. Not AVG race finish but where the drivers have finished at the end of the year.

I am not trying to throw Jr. under the bus, I just think something is going on with him and until someone figures it out he will not thrive as I think he should.
 
Smoke14 said:
It took me a while to digest this but I now see what you did. Now go back and average the season ending finish by driver. Compare all of the drivers since Jr. came up to cup. Not AVG race finish but where the drivers have finished at the end of the year.

I am not trying to throw Jr. under the bus, I just think something is going on with him and until someone figures it out he will not thrive as I think he should.
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I did it this way for a couple reasons
1) I wanted to see how he did compared to people in the same equipment
2) Averages don't really tell you much. (e.g. a guy with 2 wins and 2 DNFs will have the same average as someone that came 21st for all 4 races)
 
sloggie said:
I did it this way for a couple reasons
1) I wanted to see how he did compared to people in the same equipment
2) Averages don't really tell you much. (e.g. a guy with 2 wins and 2 DNFs will have the same average as someone that came 21st for all 4 races)
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I agree! That is why I use season ending finishes for my graph. He was in the same equipment as JJ, Gordon, Martin, Newman and Stewart this year and did not do well.

Same story last year minus Stewart and Newman.
 
i have said this before the best thing jr has done was to leave DEI
the worst thing he has done is go to HMS

i really think jr is so different from JJ and JG he just doesn't fit in, i really think, and this is just my opinion his best move would have been to go to RCR

look at kyle Bush he really didn't preform well at HMS look what he has done at Gibbs
 
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