Daytona Bonehead

harkin said:
Bonehead status also to Brian Scott, who said that when he saw the cars ahead of him wreck he "held it wide open" and tried to stay high and pick up a couple extra spots at the line, it was his car going full speed that sent Larson's car up into the fence. What a maroon.
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To add to this I vote for Brian Scotts wink after his interview during the post-race. What a douche.
 
VaDirt said:
2nd biggest bonehead, Andy. While everyone's worried about the situation, Andy jumps in immediately to assign blame (incorrectly, I might add)
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Wow, I've been away for a long time and it looks like that's one thing that hasn't changed around here.
 
harkin said:
Bonehead status also to Brian Scott, who said that when he saw the cars ahead of him wreck he "held it wide open" and tried to stay high and pick up a couple extra spots at the line, it was his car going full speed that sent Larson's car up into the fence. What a maroon.
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They kinda teach you that, there was nothing but smoke ahead of him and no time to react to a spotter. He probably charged in and hoped to drive through. His other option was to lock up the brakes and get rear ended. There is no way he could have known ahead of time that his split second decision would cause so many people to get hurt.

You can't lay blame on one person really, they were all racing hard for the win. Throwing blocks, bumping, charging into a wreak and going for it when the line is right there and it's the last lap. These things are part of stock car racing and it's why we all watch.

If no one in the stands would have gotten hurt we'd be talking about how the catch fence did a perfect job and how spectacular the crash was and how safe the cars are because mostly everyone walked away fine.

What happened today was a freak accident, a very sad accident that we all hope will never happen again. I think laying blame on someone is wrong in these situations. We should be looking for ways to improve and try to prevent them, but we also have to understand that this sport will never truly be safe. There are risks for the drivers, crews, fans, and everyone else at the track. It's just part of racing...I think we've made good progress with making things as safe as possible and will continue to do so.

By the way don't take this post as directed strictly towards the guy I quoted. I wen't on a little rant and I don't want you thinking this is a person attack of anyway. xD
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
This is exactly the case. People will jump in with all of their ideas to fix the track and the like but the truth is that this sort of thing can happen just about anywhere at any time.
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It can't in the upper deck
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
This is exactly the case. People will jump in with all of their ideas to fix the track and the like but the truth is that this sort of thing can happen just about anywhere at any time.
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It's a little shocking to hear you say stuff like this, dpk. You're a smart guy and know that learning from these accidents is the key to improving safety in the future. This 'what will be, will be' attitude is what kept nascar from making safety improvements for decades. When they lost Earnhardt, nascar thankfully woke up and started analyzing what actually happens in these wrecks and fixes it.

Was nascar at fault here? Not IMO, but a court will make the final decision on that. But they could learn something from this tragedy. Perhaps the crossover gate played a key role in Larsons car getting shredded and tracks will put them in a spot that's less likely to be hit that hard. One thing is for sure though, if they see it your way they won't learn anything.
 
I posted a video in one of the threads that showed a car hitting the cross over at Bristol. It hit the wall head on and just fell into pieces, very scary.

There can always be improvements, NASCAR learned from these type of things and makes improvements. I was one of the guys that moaned about all the changes after Dale died. I thought a lot of them were good but also felt a lot of them related to the driver should have been an option. But I've been proven wrong on many of those points too.
 
FenderBumper said:
It's a little shocking to hear you say stuff like this, dpk. You're a smart guy and know that learning from these accidents is the key to improving safety in the future. This 'what will be, will be' attitude is what kept nascar from making safety improvements for decades. When they lost Earnhardt, nascar thankfully woke up and started analyzing what actually happens in these wrecks and fixes it.

Was nascar at fault here? Not IMO, but a court will make the final decision on that. But they could learn something from this tragedy. Perhaps the crossover gate played a key role in Larsons car getting shredded and tracks will put them in a spot that's less likely to be hit that hard. One thing is for sure though, if they see it your way they won't learn anything.
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You sure read a lot into that. By people, I'm talking about this forum. I'm not talking about the people that are educated in engineering and the like that are the problem solvers of NASCAR in the safety related field.
 
Anybody think that the Carbon Fiber deck lids and hoods aren't such a great idea?

The BOOM effect of the material is like a grenade.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
You sure read a lot into that. By people, I'm talking about this forum. I'm not talking about the people that are educated in engineering and the like that are the problem solvers of NASCAR in the safety related field.
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"the truth is that this sort of thing can happen just about anywhere at any time."

Did I misunderstand that statement? That's what I was addressing.

I don't see anything wrong with people talking about what may have caused this particular wreck to injure so many fans. I think the root cause is the restrictor plate. That's what bunches the field up so much and makes the secondary hits so violent. We know RP races are here to stay because so many fans love this kind of action, but it's that very action that brings added risk.

It looks like the tire that ripped off Larsons car was sent back on the track and then punted over the fence. I don't think there is any way to avoid that once the wheel is free of the car, but perhaps the crossover gate is the reason it got ripped off in the first place. nascar may decide these need to be positioned away from turns or dog legs. In the meantime, it's an interesting discussion for a site dedicated to discussing all things racing.
 
MOEJOE said:
Anybody think that the Carbon Fiber deck lids and hoods aren't such a great idea?

The BOOM effect of the material is like a grenade.
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I don't think the NW cars have those. I think the boom was from Larsons car hitting the support poles.
 
NC HillBilly said:
They kinda teach you that, there was nothing but smoke ahead of him and no time to react to a spotter. He probably charged in and hoped to drive through. His other option was to lock up the brakes and get rear ended. There is no way he could have known ahead of time that his split second decision would cause so many people to get hurt.

You can't lay blame on one person really, they were all racing hard for the win. Throwing blocks, bumping, charging into a wreak and going for it when the line is right there and it's the last lap. These things are part of stock car racing and it's why we all watch.

If no one in the stands would have gotten hurt we'd be talking about how the catch fence did a perfect job and how spectacular the crash was and how safe the cars are because mostly everyone walked away fine.

What happened today was a freak accident, a very sad accident that we all hope will never happen again. I think laying blame on someone is wrong in these situations. We should be looking for ways to improve and try to prevent them, but we also have to understand that this sport will never truly be safe. There are risks for the drivers, crews, fans, and everyone else at the track. It's just part of racing...I think we've made good progress with making things as safe as possible and will continue to do so.

By the way don't take this post as directed strictly towards the guy I quoted. I wen't on a little rant and I don't want you thinking this is a person attack of anyway. xD
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This is a really good post...maybe the best post that I have ever read on this forum.
 
Matthew2470 said:
The weekly bonehead thread is and has been a blight on this board. I'm done reading and posting in them.
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Matthew, I agree --- I think this particular type of topic has worn out it's welcome and really doesn't serve a purpose other than blaming drivers
for making what we perceive as bad decisions. We are not riding with them, so we really can't know what was behind the decision.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Matthew, I agree --- I think this particular type of topic has worn out it's welcome and really doesn't serve a purpose other than blaming drivers
for making what we perceive as bad decisions. We are not riding with them, so we really can't know what was behind the decision.
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I agree. I have tried to keep from posting on bonehead threads since midway through last season, I just didn't care for the name calling etc.
 
I like the bonehead threads, and anyone who doesn't should be grateful there is a single place where all these comments are. That way, it's much easier to avoid what you don't like........assuming you don't have control issues. :p
 
NC HillBilly said:
They kinda teach you that, there was nothing but smoke ahead of him and no time to react to a spotter. He probably charged in and hoped to drive through. His other option was to lock up the brakes and get rear ended. There is no way he could have known ahead of time that his split second decision would cause so many people to get hurt.
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If you think his only other option was to "lock up the brakes", I suggest you watch more NASCAR, that would be almost as bad as what he did do. All he had to do was what he should have done, let up, and he would not have ended up launching another car towards the stands.

NC HillBilly said:
By the way don't take this post as directed strictly towards the guy I quoted. I wen't on a little rant and I don't want you thinking this is a person attack of anyway. xD
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My reply is directed right at you, but no personal attack or animosity, I just disagree.

BTW - I'm a newbie and until Danica drove direct to the garage and then Smith and Scott created Operation Car Launch, my Daytona Bonehead was K Harvick for his classless pit entry cutoff during the first sprint.
 
harkin said:
If you think his only other option was to "lock up the brakes", I suggest you watch more NASCAR, that would be almost as bad as what he did do. All he had to do was what he should have done, let up, and he would not have ended up launching another car towards the stands.

.
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And you no that without a doubt. He was the only one that didn't let up. Glad you're so clairvoyant.
 
I didn't mean to imply you were a newbie, but nor am I, been following this sport for over 20 years. :)

"Slam on the brakes" was a bad way to put it...I meant that if he let up the guy behind him might not have and would have smashed into him anyway. Also, I was saying that he had a split second to decide to go for it or not and he decided to go for it. None of us saw what he saw, perhaps he thought he had a clean hole and it closed up by the time he got there.

People drive blind through smoke all of the time and make it through, that's all I'm saying. It's easy to watch it on TV and say he should have done this or that, but we aren't the ones sitting in the cars, we don't see what they see so I think it's kinda wrong to say it was his fault that so many people got hurt when at the end of the day he was just trying to do his job.
 
I thought Regan Smith did what any driver trying to win at Daytona would do. I hope the same action is taken if the same situation presents itself today. As long as the result of fans injured isn't the same.. it's Daytona, I hated when Biffle couple years ago accepted second.
 
Bobw said:
"Aim for where he is, by the time you get there he'll be gone". How many times have we heard that?
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I have heard this many times. The problem is the one time I had occasion to apply it "he" wasn't moving. :eek:
 
VaDirt said:
And you no that without a doubt. He was the only one that didn't let up. Glad you're so clairvoyant.
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You give a great example of a straw man argument. Who said he was the "only one"? I quoted a guy who said he "held it wide open" and oh yeah he just happened to be the guy whose car launched another into the fence.
 
harkin said:
You give a great example of a straw man argument. Who said he was the "only one"? I quoted a guy who said he "held it wide open" and oh yeah he just happened to be the guy whose car launched another into the fence.
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And you give the great "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" argument (if that has a name).
 
VaDirt said:
And you give the great "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" argument (if that has a name).
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Not really, it's my opinion, but at least I didn't have to make anything up or play mind-reader to make my point.
 
Observations on the Nationwide Crash.
1. NASCAR should worry about the injuries paying fans rather then trying to block you tube fan videos.
2. No amount of spin changes the injuries suffered by their fans.
3. An event like this should spur changes to make it safer for the fans but rarely dose. Ask OWR fans after Las Vegas. RIP Dan.
4. If NASCAr can change and mandate safer barriers, they can solve the fence barrier issues.
5. Finally prayers for full recovery of the fans and Arnet.
Stay Clam and have a beer.
 
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