Did CGR hold Larson back?

DanicaFreak

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How many titles would he have if he left cgr earlier?
 

Speedbowl14

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The same he has now given Hendrick was crap most of those years. And when he was starting out he had major major issues with the "choke" even when the car was good and the team performed.
 

jaqua19

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The same he has now given Hendrick was crap most of those years. And when he was starting out he had major major issues with the "choke" even when the car was good and the team performed.
This.

maybe 10 or so more wins at this point as point as well.

Cliff coached the hell out of Larson.

You should really watch that post race pressed from yesterday. Larson has the goods, but man, I don't think he'd be the driver in a cup car he is without Cliff's leadership and coaching.

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Snappy D

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Yes. That is very apparent to me after this year
 

JGR_20

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In some races he didn’t win at ganassi… he led several and or was one of the fastest cars… only to stuff the car into the fence and ruin his chances. For awhile it seemed like he did it often.

I just feel like it’s all come around for him. He’s a smarter driver verses several years ago. Always been fast… but just better now

I think he gets the first title right about this same time either way
 

StandOnIt

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In some races he didn’t win at ganassi… he led several and or was one of the fastest cars… only to stuff the car into the fence and ruin his chances. For awhile it seemed like he did it often.

I just feel like it’s all come around for him. He’s a smarter driver verses several years ago. Always been fast… but just better now

I think he gets the first title right about this same time either way
Yeah pretty much. He had no experience on pavement, how to set the car up, or saving tires and he had to put that all together. He got some of it right, but he needed to learn more.
 

Mispeedway15

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Until this year, he was a terrible defensive driver. Amazing race car driver, couldn’t defend a position worth a sh!t. He really got better at this in the WoO last season, and started winning some major races that he’d always choke away.

Case in point, look at the block he threw on MTJ in the closing laps. 2 years ago he doesn’t pull that off and Truex wins. That my friends is the difference, Larson has the speed and the defense it takes to be a force. He doesn’t choke away every race like he did all those years
 

RacerrecaR

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Larson held Larson back. He was always a great offensive driver but was too aggressive and didn't know when/how to get in a rhythm. Something changed with him last year and it may very well have been all mental
 

AuzGrams

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No. CGR didn’t hold him back, he had no shot with Hendrick for years.

It’s a huge mental advantage to have better cars that you don’t have to overdrive.
 

Dr_B_UNC

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In some races he didn’t win at ganassi… he led several and or was one of the fastest cars… only to stuff the car into the fence and ruin his chances. For awhile it seemed like he did it often.

I just feel like it’s all come around for him. He’s a smarter driver verses several years ago. Always been fast… but just better now

I think he gets the first title right about this same time either way
This. He was always a raw talent and amazing wheelman, but had a major tendency to fall out of the seat in the clutch. People here and reddit always attributed that to overpushing to compensate for CGR equipment (even when it was a dominant car), and maybe it was. Getting with peak HMS equipment and having Daniels on the box helped fix his head. Once that happened, you see what we got.

As for CGR holding him back, remember that HMS wasn't too hot those years either. Chase cherry picked a couple wins a year, but that's it. They were a tier 2 team, like CGR.
 

Efisher131

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If he started out with Hendrick right away I’d say he’d probably be around 28-30 wins but this still would’ve been his first cup
 

Snappy D

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I wondered about this before but was Larson going to leave Chip after his CGR contract was up even if things didn’t happen as they did with him getting pulled from the car mid season last year ?
 

Dr_B_UNC

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I wondered about this before but was Larson going to leave Chip after his CGR contract was up even if things didn’t happen as they did with him getting pulled from the car mid season last year ?
On DBC they insinuated that he was going to HMS anyway, but there was going to be a bidding war with SHR. The suspension happened, Ford wouldn't let SHR sign him, and Hendrick suddenly had the negotiating high ground to sign him for pennies on the dollar. Basically, they said he was HMS bound anyway but the way it worked out he signed a contract for peanuts compared to what he would have made. Millions $ difference.

Edit: For further evidence on DBC, they teased a "secret meeting" at HMS back when Jimmie announced he was hanging it up. They later admitted it was Larson meeting with Mr. H at that time.
 

Snappy D

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On DBC they insinuated that he was going to HMS anyway, but there was going to be a bidding war with SHR. The suspension happened, Ford wouldn't let SHR sign him, and Hendrick suddenly had the negotiating high ground to sign him for pennies on the dollar. Basically, they said he was HMS bound anyway but the way it worked out he signed a contract for peanuts compared to what he would have made. Millions $ difference.

Edit: For further evidence on DBC, they teased a "secret meeting" at HMS back when Jimmie announced he was hanging it up. They later admitted it was Larson meeting with Mr. H at that time.
Never knew this thanks. What raised my eyebrow was in post race when he said he was watching Chase win the Cup last year at the HMS Compound and i don’t think it was announced as a HMS driver yet
 

Dr_B_UNC

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I wonder if the whole suspension fallout and contract price is how Mr. H got by with self sponsoring the 5 car. I'm not privy to any details, but apparently he isn't paying Kyle very much in the way of salary at all.
 

Dr_B_UNC

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Never knew this thanks. What raised my eyebrow was in post race when he said he was watching Chase win the Cup last year at the HMS Compound and i don’t think it was announced as a HMS driver yet
That's a good point. When was he announced? They waited until the off season didn't they out of respect for Jimmie? Then in the off season the 88 became the 48 and the 48 the 5?
 

Dr_B_UNC

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If he started out with Hendrick right away I’d say he’d probably be around 28-30 wins but this still would’ve been his first cup
I think he'd have 2-3 more wins a year, but not setting the world on fire like he did this year. HMS wasn't that dominant YET back then.
 

Snappy D

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That's a good point. When was he announced? They waited until the off season didn't they out of respect for Jimmie? Then in the off season the 88 became the 48 and the 48 the 5?
I remember him being on the Dale Download after the season but I think it was the week after the Chase as Champion episode. I might be misremembering that though.
 

Old 97

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One thing I noticed this year (and heard very little from the commentators about it) was the the "Larson Line".
It seems as though someone got through to Kyle about the lack of incentive to use up the right side of the car race after race.
He definitely seemed to be able to search the entire track for speed and not just stay glued to the wall.
 

Mispeedway15

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This. He was always a raw talent and amazing wheelman, but had a major tendency to fall out of the seat in the clutch. People here and reddit always attributed that to overpushing to compensate for CGR equipment (even when it was a dominant car), and maybe it was. Getting with peak HMS equipment and having Daniels on the box helped fix his head. Once that happened, you see what we got.

As for CGR holding him back, remember that HMS wasn't too hot those years either. Chase cherry picked a couple wins a year, but that's it. They were a tier 2 team, like CGR.
Yeah we've got short memories. Ford was dominant last year and Toyota the year before that. But CGR still has not been terrible, Chastain had a shot at the Southern 500 and Kurt took Atlanta. Still you had a year where Hendrick was LA Dodgers good, and the best racer on the series was driving for them.

One thing that is not being talked about enough, he blew a tire on the last turn at Pocono with the lead and finished 2nd 5 times this year. He could have easily won 16 races
 

Greg

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I think he'd have 2-3 more wins a year, but not setting the world on fire like he did this year. HMS wasn't that dominant YET back then.
More like Larson alone being that dominate now. He dominated the other HMS drivers too.
It could not be any more obvious that he is better than his teammates. Cliff Daniels was also 0-51 before Larson signed on.

Larson is fortunate to have HMS, but HMS is also fortunate to have Larson. Truax would be the 2021 champion without the pairing.
 

Efisher131

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Yeah we've got short memories. Ford was dominant last year and Toyota the year before that. But CGR still has not been terrible, Chastain had a shot at the Southern 500 and Kurt took Atlanta. Still you had a year where Hendrick was LA Dodgers good, and the best racer on the series was driving for them.

One thing that is not being talked about enough, he blew a tire on the last turn at Pocono with the lead and finished 2nd 5 times this year. He could have easily won 16 races
-Pocono last turn flat tire
-COTA rain shortened and Chase couldn’t go the full distance
-Atlanta held up by Logano and burned the tires off
-Daytona Road spun passing for the lead with a few laps to go
-Kansas 1 dominated and late wreck with Blaney on a restart
-Vegas 2 horrible pit strategy with the dominant car
-Indy Road Course was cruising to the win before the curb shenanigans happened

and probably a few more I can’t think of
 

Nitro Dude

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On DBC they insinuated that he was going to HMS anyway, but there was going to be a bidding war with SHR. The suspension happened, Ford wouldn't let SHR sign him, and Hendrick suddenly had the negotiating high ground to sign him for pennies on the dollar. Basically, they said he was HMS bound anyway but the way it worked out he signed a contract for peanuts compared to what he would have made. Millions $ difference.

Edit: For further evidence on DBC, they teased a "secret meeting" at HMS back when Jimmie announced he was hanging it up. They later admitted it was Larson meeting with Mr. H at that time.
I have never heard anything about what kind of salary he is getting, but I wouldn't be surprised if it still was in the millions. But, even if it wasn't...I bet it will be now. :DRick Hendrick is looking like a genius that's for sure.:)
 

wi_racefan

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I wonder if the whole suspension fallout and contract price is how Mr. H got by with self sponsoring the 5 car. I'm not privy to any details, but apparently he isn't paying Kyle very much in the way of salary at all.
Had it not been for the suspension I don't think Mr H would have even had to consider sponsoring it himself

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StandOnIt

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I have never heard anything about what kind of salary he is getting, but I wouldn't be surprised if it still was in the millions. But, even if it wasn't...I bet it will be now. :DRick Hendrick is looking like a genius that's for sure.:)
Pretty sure he gets bonuses for winning and he did a whole lot of that. I think Hendrick didn't have the general breathing down his neck like the Ford people did with SHR, so he had pretty much a free reign to sign him up. I don't think Larson wanted anything to do with Toyota and vice versa.
 

wi_racefan

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From what I remember Chevy suspended Larson before CGR did, so part of me thought that may have given Ford and SHR the upper hand. Turns out apparently Smoke couldn't convince Ford to bring him over. Bet someone is regretting that one now.

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