Empty seats all weekend

Originally posted by Whizzer@Feb 25 2003, 09:23 AM


But TN-Ward-Fan, surely you know about roots. East Tennessee State University with the two majors, B.B and a B.P. That's a Bachelors in Bluegrass and a Bachelors in Pig Pickin'. But with all due respect, it is really a good thing. Bluegrass keeping the hillbilly banjo and mandolin pluckin' heritage alive and on the other end of the spectrum teaching Yankees how to eat without using a fork. Just a little humor there young fella. :rolleyes:
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Kinda uncalled for, but what can one expect?

Kindly keep your derisive hogwash to yourself, whaddayasay?

As to the racing part of your comment, you make some good points. I do wonder why the new fans are even bothering if they aren't interested in the race though. Seems like a waste of time and money to me.

And one more thing. I didn't go to ETSU, with it's medical school and all. But thanks for the chance to brag on them, it's a great place for those who might want to study something besides BBPIC - Bachelor's in Burying People In Concrete. Ain't that about all that Joiseez famous for?
 
I have been a fan for less then 10 years, but the last 4 years I have watched every race. You are correct though most of the new fans don't watch most of the races and like to see big packs and wrecks. Alot of my friends only watch 5 to 10 races out of the year, and the rp tracks are there biggest concerne. Not to mension other series such as busch or craftsman, most think thats a waste of time, and if its a league not afiliated with nascar its even worth less.
 
Right, some posters here don't even know that Busch and Trucks are NASCAR.

A week or so ago, someone had asked which was the best race of Speedweeks and a few people answered, "The NASCAR race".
 
I, too, abhor the thought of Rockingham losing a date. Racing there is some of the best. To long-time fans The Rock means good, hard racing.

While I understand the "economics" of moving dates, the old-time fan in me just cringes. All I see is another piece of racing history being taken away. :(
 
the way i see it is the yuppies and the corp. types will gett bored soon and all that will be left are the few "old timers" that were able to affod to keep going. once that happens NASTYCAR will be left with empty corp. suites and and an empty pocket book asking what went wrong.

so much for the good old days, welcome back my freind to the show that never ends the new and improved NASTYCAR boring races on cookie cutter tracks (but we have a hilton to stay in) and 4 races that will bring them all the tore up cars they could want. And oh by the way you fans from the 50's thru 80's thanks but like ESPN we out grew you.
 
Originally posted by de7xwcc@Feb 25 2003, 11:22 AM
so much for the good old days, welcome back my freind to the show that never ends the new and improved NASTYCAR boring races on cookie cutter tracks
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Daytona and Talladega aren't cookie cutter, and those races are boring. And to be honest, this last race was a snoozer too.
 
I wish i could get the Rocks weather here. Sunny, mid 50's, I would be in shorts a t-shirt and sunglasses. People can dress for the weather. If you do not think to bring a coat or a sweatshirt, that is your problem. Heck, before we go to our local tracks up here in July I make shure the kids have there jackets or sweatshirts with them because it has a tendancy to get cool.Maybe I get myself some ticks for the Fall race and take my soon to be wife and enjoy a nice day at the races. The race is what is important to me and the Rock always puts on a great race. If I have to stay in a hotel an hour away, that is fine too.
 
Originally posted by paul+Feb 25 2003, 04:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (paul @ Feb 25 2003, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--de7xwcc@Feb 25 2003, 11:22 AM
so much for the good old days, welcome back my freind to the show that never ends the new and improved NASTYCAR&nbsp; boring races on cookie cutter tracks
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Daytona and Talladega aren't cookie cutter, and those races are boring. And to be honest, this last race was a snoozer too. [/b][/quote]
did not say they were,
"cookie cutter tracks and 4 races that will bring them all the tore up cars they could want"

agree with daytona being boring this time

quit fishin
 
Originally posted by TN-Ward-Fan@Feb 25 2003, 02:30 PM

[ QUOTE: Kindly keep your derisive hogwash to yourself, whaddayasay?&nbsp;
And one more thing.&nbsp; I didn't go to ETSU, with it's medical school and all.&nbsp; But thanks for the chance to brag on them, it's a great place for those who might want to study something besides BBPIC - Bachelor's in Burying People In Concrete.&nbsp; Ain't that about all that Joiseez famous for?]
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Derisive hogwash?? New Joisey and BBPIC degrees?? Well I never..................so I'll offer a lesson on the Garden State to clarify a few things of a little geographical and historical background !!!! New Joisey is famous for the following: being one of the thirteen original states and a major player in the Revolutionary War, high production in agricultural products, diversified areas with sandy soils, mountains, beautiful beaches and some of the best universities and medical facilities in the world, just for openers rather than bore you with the rest.

However, beyond the positive side, New Jesrsey offers, The Sopranos, chemical companies that pollute and it has been suggested people living in the areas where these companies are located actually glow in the dark from drinking the water. Some sort of phenomenon.
It is rumored unmarked burial plots in the Meadowlands are the reason there can be no NASCAR facility built there until all graves are identified, and the mob ain't talking. In the event a NASCAR race track were located there it would offer one major benefit as the area was a former landfill and the methane gas would provide lighting for night races at little to no cost.
New Jersey has the largest population per square mile of any state. Is that a plus or a minus? But to correct one thing that is untrue, not every town has an exit off the New Jersey Turnpike. Just most of them. The others are exits off the Garden State Parkway. It also has Newark, holder of the record for the most car thefts per registered vehicle in the state. The state also has rednecks, white trash, an overburden of criminals and an understaffed judicial system.

It seems the major product in New Jersey is asphalt, which covers a large portion of the earth leaving small cracks between to allow for agricultural production.

Since moving to North Carolina, the newspapers have carried stories of places where they have uncovered unexploded shells in a building subdivision, site of a former military training center. Chemical spills in major rivers, cities regularly fined for failure to control untreated sewage waste from running into therivers, farms overloading the environment with animal sewage, corruption at various levels in government, gang related rapes and murders, and cows and people driven out by building growth, and sub-divisions found laced with DDT chemicals placed there fifty years ago, use of taxpayer monies to subsidize tobacco, the Smokey Mountains being the most polluted National Park in the entire National Park System and the city of Raleigh having the dubious distinction of being one of the ten most air polluted cities in the nation. And it isn't just in North Carolina or New Jersey, excuse me, New Joisey. It is everywhere and anywhere.

So it seems like the desire any of us might have thinking we are unique, it just ain't so. It all equates to being the same stuff, different day, different place. Same style of arm-twisting politics, same style of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" and the dairy cows that were so prevalent until twenty years ago are going quickly, according to some, a victim of high property taxes. It has been said the cows in New Jersey, New Joisey, started giving milk with a luminescent glow. Kids loved it but health experts were wary.

But ain't it the same all over??

Oh yes. Least I forget. A recent unsubstantiated check on New Joisey institutions of higher education thought to be offering degrees in BBPIC (Bachelors Burying People in Concrete) degrees are at an all time high, as is enrollment. It might be a form of mortuary science with a new title. Seems there is a demand from out of state students wanting to learn the technique. Funny, what they teach in one state is desired by students from other states.

Just a few examples of the different things New Joisey is known for. ;)
 
Originally posted by de7xwcc@Feb 25 2003, 12:41 PM
agree with daytona being boring this time

quit fishin
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It's called an opinion, not fishing. Grow up. :)
 
Originally posted by paul+Feb 25 2003, 06:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (paul @ Feb 25 2003, 06:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--de7xwcc@Feb 25 2003, 12:41 PM
agree with daytona being boring this time

quit fishin
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It's called an opinion, not fishing. Grow up. :) [/b][/quote]
what the hell are you talking about ???????????
 
touchy, touchy, I calls em like i see em.
you jumped first, my post did NOT call Daytona and Talladega cookie cutters you implied it did.
 
Originally posted by paul+Feb 25 2003, 04:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (paul @ Feb 25 2003, 04:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--de7xwcc@Feb 25 2003, 11:22 AM
so much for the good old days, welcome back my freind to the show that never ends the new and improved NASTYCAR  boring races on cookie cutter tracks
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Daytona and Talladega aren't cookie cutter, and those races are boring. And to be honest, this last race was a snoozer too. [/b][/quote]
:bslfag: i give up you win, but you did however leave half my quote out.
have a nice day :)
 
I see my favorite subject has been brought up yet once again here on our fine forums.

TNWard fan, in re: your comments about NH. NHIS was a sell out the day after Thanksgiving in 2001. Temps were in the mid 50's and it was rather breezy if my memory is correct. (NHIS holds nearly 40,000 more people than Rockingham, by the way.)
I've seen between 3,000 and 5,000 people come out for the annual ice races a few towns north of here for "The Norris Cotton Race Against Cancer". This is held on a small frozen pond in the middle of January, there are no grandstands, the fans just stand on the ice and wander back to their cars when they need to warm up. And if you think the racing is good at "The Rock", you've never seen a bunch of die-hard racers going at it on a frozen lake.

The folks up here in New England, the area where stockcar racing really originated, will come out in a blizzard, or -20 degree weather, to stand in the cold and watch a good show. Year after year after year.

With the turnout for last week-ends race at Rockingham that show had to have been a loss for the company and I don't know of many successful companies that will operate venues at a loss for too long. Not good business at all.
Wouldn't you agree?
 
Hey Bob,

How dare you spread such blasphemous lies! Stock car racing is a southern sport! :lol:
 
Hey Paul,

Stockcar racing is not now, nor has it ever been, a strictly southern sport.
It actually started in France around 1894 and moved to Chicago the following year.
After that, it sort of grew all over the country rather rapidly. R.I. hosted events weekly from 1896 to 1927, stockcars were racing up Mt. Washington here in NH by 1903 and up Pikes Peak around 1904, county fairgrounds and horse tracks all over the country were hosting races about that same time, Indy has been hosting events since 1909 and the 500 since 1911 and without checking I can't give the dates, but the Vanderbuilt Cup races on Long Island were world class events in the early years of the last century. The Milwaukee Mile has been in continuous operation, hosting stockcar events as well as openwheelers, since around 1906, I believe there was a rather successful track in Atlanta early on as well. (1903 perhaps?)

While NASCAR was formed in the Florida, it was never intended by its founders to be limited to a single area of the country; one of the original goals of that organization was to set uniform rules for the entire country so that a true national champion could be deterimined. Things like a guaranteed purse and insurance for the drivers were also early concerns.

Somehow, somewhere along the line it seems that some folks decided that the whole thing was started by a bunch of whiskey running rednecks and the rest of the story has been fabricated and grown from that. Did some whiskey runners get involved? Yep, but not the way the story goes. Stock car racing didn't grow from the whiskey runners racing their moonshine haulers in some farmers cornfield on Sunday afternoons.
By the time NASCAR was formed, the race cars were no longer street driven, they were pretty much purpose built for racing. Just look at some pictures of the beach/road course races from Daytona back in the 1930's.
Of course, NASCAR and the southern media have done all that they can to contribute to the myth.
It's so much more interesting than the simple truth.

But we all know that stock car racing is strictly a southern sport.
Nope, It is now, and has been since the early days, a form of advertising, but advertising designed to entertain and to relieve the spectators of their money.
Same thing as the circus and carnivals of the late 1800's and early years of the 1900's.
(Wasn't it P.T. Barnum who said something about a sucker being born every minute? Didn't he know what he was talking about, too?)

Sorry if this offends anyone who has been disillusioned by all the hype of recent years.

With somewhere around one half of their events in one small geographical area where the fans support the tracks by not coming to events at small venues, doesn't it make good busniness sense to move those events to facilities with more than twice the capacity that can sell all of their seats for an event.
To not do so is not in the interest of the stockholders of the companies which own the tracks.
It is not about tradition, nor is it about greed. It is about paying the bills and bringing the show to the markets which are contributing to that. It is, like any business, about black ink on the bottom line.
No more, no less.
 
Gee, where were all these informed people during the 60s, the 70s, the early 80s? You know, before it got popular? Didn't see too many people outside these parts clammoring all over themselves to take credit for it, be identified with it, even be part of it back then. When the national media neglected it entirely, and wrote it off as a Sout....nevermind. Why waste your time TWF? Never been able to tell a Yankee ANYTHING before, now ain't no different. :p The whole world is wrong, the published histories are wrong, but a dozen people from New England are right. Gotcha. Now it's all made clear to me.

I'm over this. Y'all carry on as you like.
 
TN-Ward-Fan,
I don't have a clue where you were in the 60's, 70's or 80's. I was pretty damn busy trying to make a living, raise my family, and support the race cars that seemed to follow me home all the time. We even used to come down your way to race once in awhile.

If you take some time and read some history of the sport of autoracing, as well as the beginnings of NASCAR, (the history, not the stories) you might find out that your notions about we Yankees are as wrong as your conceptions about the beginnings of stockcar racing.
We gave up fighting the civil war, oops, the War of Northern Aggression, back around 1865 or so.
Maybe you should think about doing the same thing?
It would make your life a whole lot more pleasant and some of us Yankees do know what we're talking about.
 
NASCAR may be a southern entity, but NASCAR is not the only stock car racing in the world...and it certainly wasn't the first.

The Allman Brothers were from the south, but rock and roll didn't start there.
 
Well i gotta get my 2cents in on this one. Nascar officially was formed in the south, but the racing in the New England area started before that formation. New England drivers have been some of the best and remain some of the best in the sport. There is a huge talent pool in that part of the country, the tracks in that region are legendary. Thompson Speedway in Conn. is one of the oldest paved tracks in the nation, built around 1936 i beleive. WE are one of the hardiest crowd groups when it comes to racing, that is for sure. It really seems to me that The Rock should be selling out 10 races /year with the quality of racing there. By far one of my favorites, all the strategy , all the passing, tire mangement , all the different racing lines....truly has the best of racing on it. Could it be that the fans in that region are just bored with it? That possibly they just need way too many creature comforts? I'm throwing those statements out for pondering as has Bob and a few others. I grew up around stock cars,climbed into a Mod 32 coupe when i was 4 to help rev the engine while my dads' friend tuned the carb. That was back in 1965, and i have been hooked since, never swayed from it being my favorite form of auto racing. I like others , but stock car racing is special, it is the closeness of the fans and the racers that makes it that way and the history. Some people say that the fans from the 50s,60s,70s, and 80s aren't with it that they live in the past. I tend to disagree with that profusely, we know what racing is, what it stands for, what is should be, and that it is taking corner that will either make it even bigger or break it. Maybe the young fans, the newbies, and the fair weather guys really need to look at why they are fans. I'm a fan because i "love the sport and everything connected to it". That said i'm going to get another cup of coffee and pack my bags for Vegas. B)
 
Awww come on guys! People have been so warm and cozy in their little worlds thinking NASCAR invented stock car racing. And that they invented it down in the south. Now you're ruining it...

Now they have no reasons to hate northern drivers and northern tracks!
 
Whizzer, you must live in Cary. Been reading the Durham Herald - Sun paper too. The way to resolve to Rainingham problem is to alternate the spring race with Darlington. Odd years Rockingham gets the race and even years Darlington get the race. By having a race every other year each track draws a better crowd. Rockingham and Darlington are to close together and have dates to close together to draw good crowds.

I atttended the first race at the rock in 1965. We stayed at a hotel in Aberdeen that catered to the golf crowd. We went to both races for several years untill we got tird of the rainouts. When I started covering the races for the newspapers in the early 80s I drove back in forth as I live only about 90 miles north. Back then there was only a two lane road to the track. I've drove down on Saturday morning only to have the race weekend be snowed out after I got their. The job I had I worked on weekends and had to put in for leave several months ahead of time so rain/snow out ment I could go back.
 
OH TINY !!! OH BOY !!!!!! Cary !!!! CARY ??????

Commonly known as the,

C - Containment
A- Area for
R- Relocated
Y- Yankees

A most appropriate acronym by the way. Seems when IBM opened the facility in RTP the Yankees came in such numbers it is rumored the Governor of North Carolina called out the National Guard thinking it was an invasion.

I might fit the description of displaced Yankee, but not the city.
Cary = yuppie. We live in Wake Forest, a wonderful town being over run by growth. My bride and I wound up here by default as we bought property for our retirement home in Wilkes County over thirty years ago. When our son-in-law and daughter moved to Raleigh and began having children, we sold the property in Wilkes County and began looking in this area. Took eighteen months to find this place.

As to the inquiry of my whereabouts during the 1960, 1970 and 1980 era, it was right at a NASCAR track whenever possible. Don't anyone get the idea there were not die hard fans living above the Mason-Dixon line and especially in New Jersey. The fallicy only people in the south know about NASCAR racing is erroneous. Though many want to believe that is true, it isn't. Admittedly, it was difficult to get news of NASCAR so that was solved via subscription to National Speed Sport News, published right in Paterson, NJ. None of the major metropolitan newspapers carried stories of the NASCAR series and while visiting major cities in the south on many occasions, and when attending races there, found very few papers other than those directly connected to the location a race was held carried racing news, so the northern papers were not the only press devoid of information. Many southern communities were as well.

YES, NASCAR was formed in the south, with several giants in automobile racing who lived in the north in attendance. Many who were later elected as officers of NASCAR. However, a majority of the directors were from the south. Stock car racing is not indigenous to the south. NASCAR was formed in 1949. I saw a modified stock car race in Morristown NJ in 1948.

Whiskey runners were not the first drivers of stock car racing nor was the sport designed from thier escapades. That is part of the mystique unwittingly brought about by Junior Johnson and Wendell Scott long after the formation of the NASCAR series. As far as the legend in the history books, the whiskey runner thing makes a good story to be told over mahogany ridge but in reality provides an inaccurate lesson. The question doubters should ask themselves is, if stock car racing was documented as taking place in various parts of the U.S. of A. many years before NASCAR was founded, how can the history books be correct in stating stock car racing and or NASCAR are a development and result of whiskey runners in the south ???
 
A very strange discussion.

Stock car racing in the United States was born in Wisconsin. In 1871, Dr. J. W. Carhart, professor of physics at Wisconsin State University, and the J. I. Case Company built a working steam car. It was practical enough to inspice the State of Wisconsin to offer a $10,000 prize to the winner of a 200 mile race in 1878.

The 200 mile race had seven entries, of which two showed up for the race. One car was sponsored by the city of Green Bay and the other by the city of Oshkosh. The Green Bay car was the fastest but broke down and the Oshkosh car finished with an average speed of 6 mph.

Those were "stock cars"

Some 25 years later the first known race on a genuine and for real race track was held in the US. The first closed circuit automobile race was held at Narragansett Park, Rhode Island, in September 1896. Dominated by the lightning quick Duryea entries.

Those were all probably stock cars as well.

My Grandpappy claims to have run the first stock car race in the south back around 1907 or so. But he may have been full of it.

NASCAR was obviously formed well after this. What NASCAR was and remains to this day is the first and foremost national sanctioning body for stock car racing. Local and regional bodies ond organizations 9or lack thereof, some were just track to track) had been around for a while. There have been other national organizations since for the purpose, but none with anything near the success and longevity of NASCAR.

NASCAR's and subsequent seasons were not restricted to the south. The sport grew exponentially under the guidance of NASCAR and Bill France. In the 50's and 60's the circuit roamed from Maine to Florida and New York to California. But in those years, the racing came to be concentrated in the south, as were most of the teams, owners, and drivers. Naturally there were folks from all over the country involved, but the concentration was the south.

btw...Junior Johnson was more likely one of the last of the moonshiners to become a NASCAR name, not one of the first. And it is a fact, not a rumor, that many of the drivers in the early days of NASCAR like the Flock Brothers were in the whiskey business as well. This is not a myth or a PR job, it is a fact. There were drivers who never had anything to do with moonshine, but there were jsut as many who did.

What region of the country has the most dedicated, loyal, tough, die-hard, knowledgeable, dyed in the wool, go to a race no matter what fans?? GMABMFB. You have absolutely positively got to be kidding me. That is the most foolhardy topic for a debate I can imagine. The answer is every part of the country and no part of the country.

Carry on! :eek:
 
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