Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

Brock Beard is usually focused on the LASTCAR.

He might consider staying in that lane.
 
StandOnIt said:
It's all you have known right?
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There are actually a group of fans that arnt as old as I am that only know the Chase and Playoff formats. The full season points system train left the station in 2003 and will never be becoming back. I really dont understand why folks clamor for it's return, its a humongous waste of time that accomplishes nothing.
 
StandOnIt said:
Beard makes some good points. I doubt many here will take the time or the bandwidth to listen. :idunno:
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I listened.

8 Billion per year. Anyone, Brock Beard included, who thinks broadcasters are going to roll the dice on a Championship that’s decided before the last race (or races) is run is delusional.
 
Ya know... with charter negotiations in the ****ter, and 2 major Richmond controversies in 11 years... going back to a full season points championship may be worth a discussion in Charlotte. If NASCAR agreed to a full season championship I bet the charter agreement would be signed quickly. It seems 80-90% of the industry would prefer, or at least be indifferent towards a full season championship vs the playoffs.
 
aunty dive said:
I listened.

8 Billion per year. Anyone, Brock Beard included, who thinks broadcasters are going to roll the dice on a Championship that’s decided before the last race (or races) is run is delusional.
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For years the numbers for the "playoffs" haven't increased. And now Nascar is concerned with their integrity and rightfully so. It's not about racing anymore, it's all about win and you are in.
 
aunty dive said:
I listened.

8 Billion per year. Anyone, Brock Beard included, who thinks broadcasters are going to roll the dice on a Championship that’s decided before the last race (or races) is run is delusional.
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F1 makes that amount seem like peanuts and their media partners don't seem to care. 2019 was the last time the World Series went to game 7.

At the beginning of the season I too thought that a full season championship in NASCAR would never ever come back. Now I think it's at least worth a discussion.

All it's reasons for creation in 2004 aren't valid anymore.
- the title sponsor that wanted it is gone
- Brian France is in exile
- NASCAR thought they could compete with, and possibly beat NFL TV ratings by creating the Chase. A comical thought at this point.
- The parity of the NextGen car is proven. The guy 32nd in points was the best car at Richmond. It is unlikely you'd get a runaway championship.

It would build a lot of goodwill within the industry and motorsports fans in general if NASCAR went back to a full points season. I think that is worth more to NASCAR than money at this point.
 
We’re not talking about NASCAR’s money.

Like it or not, broadcasters are the final arbiters of scheduling and race / playoff formats.
 
aunty dive said:
I listened.

8 Billion per year. Anyone, Brock Beard included, who thinks broadcasters are going to roll the dice on a Championship that’s decided before the last race (or races) is run is delusional.
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$8B over seven years but yeah, I don’t see NBC wavering on this anytime soon. They wanted it when they came back into the sport a decade ago, and with their slate getting smaller next year the playoff only becomes a bigger component of their package.
 
A normal racing fan could keep up with the points. It's nonsense to have cars that are in 16th place completely resetting the points racing points wise with series leader. Anybody think that 32nd place Dillon losing the restart and he would have had a good second place finish, all of a sudden thinks it is a good idea to do what he did?Unless it was win and you are in going around in his head?
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
There are actually a group of fans that arnt as old as I am that only know the Chase and Playoff formats. The full season points system train left the station in 2003 and will never be becoming back. I really dont understand why folks clamor for it's return, its a humongous waste of time that accomplishes nothing.
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Not really. Each race was still there to win each week. Some people think wins are just as important as championships.
 
Tbh at this point I would take the original Chase format, at least then you don’t get screwed as easily in the final race. It’s not perfect, but better than what we have now. But I rather see a nice championship battle happen organically. A champion gets crowned with two or three races to go? So be it, I’ll watch still because I care about the races also.

I’m waiting for someone to compare it to the Patriots going undefeated until the Super Bowl and losing, that’s always fun.
 
The Nature Boy said:
The ultimate goal in every race is to win. If you aren’t trying to do that, you should pack up and go home.
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That’s true, but just because you win one race doesn’t mean you should qualify for a chance to be the champion. Just think, if Austin Dillon won without all the BS that happened, a guy 32nd in points right now would in the playoffs and have a chance to win the championship. Little ridiculous.
 
The Nature Boy said:
The ultimate goal in every race is to win. If you aren’t trying to do that, you should pack up and go home.
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Yes but with no playoffs, I bet Dillon finishes 3rd, or perhaps punts Logano and then finishes 2nd to Denny. In some ways Dillon is a "victim" to NASCAR's playoffs. I doubt he wants to wreck 2 guys for the lead, but when that's his only shot at the Playoffs, he's gonna go for it.

He's not a rookie. He's been around this sport his entire life. He knew what he did was not right, but he had to do it and hope/pray NASCAR would let it slide.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
F1 makes that amount seem like peanuts and their media partners don't seem to care. 2019 was the last time the World Series went to game 7.

At the beginning of the season I too thought that a full season championship in NASCAR would never ever come back. Now I think it's at least worth a discussion.

All it's reasons for creation in 2004 aren't valid anymore.
- the title sponsor that wanted it is gone
- Brian France is in exile
- NASCAR thought they could compete with, and possibly beat NFL TV ratings by creating the Chase. A comical thought at this point.
- The parity of the NextGen car is proven. The guy 32nd in points was the best car at Richmond. It is unlikely you'd get a runaway championship.

It would build a lot of goodwill within the industry and motorsports fans in general if NASCAR went back to a full points season. I think that is worth more to NASCAR than money at this point.
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I think the big brainstorm they had when coked up Brian and the NBC who do's came together is that they thought the playoffs would be this great stick and ball type moneymaker.
So they trashed the whole points system, came up with and re-came up with all of this gimmickry and over the years Nascar fans think it is ok to wreck each other because Win and you are in.
Nascar has no line lol. They have let it go on for years. Now what?? Can't bust a guy in the ass from three car lengths? Two? You can smash them into the wall as long as it is "accidental"? A whole lot more racing and less wrecking would occur if it wasn't all predicated about win and you are in and playoff points.
 
I mean anymore the driver that is first place on a GWC restart can almost be guaranteed that somebody is going to try to turn him before the checkered.
Dillon was so far out of his league that a second place would have been a big deal for that team AND I believe they would have raced differently.
 
  • 30 race regular season.
  • Winner gets 75 total points regardless of stage points. Everyone else, same race and stage points as now. No playoff points.
  • After first 30 races, top five in points are championship eligible. No 'win and you're in.' No seeding.
  • Champion is crowned based on points accumulated over final six races.
So there's a playoff season to keep the networks happy. It's short enough to ensure no one runs away with it every year. Easy to explain to your friends. No chickens#!t teams eligible.
  • Honorable mention to dropping driver points and running only owner / team points.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
F1 makes that amount seem like peanuts and their media partners don't seem to care. 2019 was the last time the World Series went to game 7.

At the beginning of the season I too thought that a full season championship in NASCAR would never ever come back. Now I think it's at least worth a discussion.

All it's reasons for creation in 2004 aren't valid anymore.
- the title sponsor that wanted it is gone
- Brian France is in exile
- NASCAR thought they could compete with, and possibly beat NFL TV ratings by creating the Chase. A comical thought at this point.
- The parity of the NextGen car is proven. The guy 32nd in points was the best car at Richmond. It is unlikely you'd get a runaway championship.

It would build a lot of goodwill within the industry and motorsports fans in general if NASCAR went back to a full points season. I think that is worth more to NASCAR than money at this point.
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I think a reasonable compromise would be going back towards a 10-race ‘chase’, this time with an increased emphasis on playoff points and a more exclusive field of 10-12.

The Chase didn’t adequately reward regular season performance at the reseeding mark like the current playoff format does, but it did allow for two or three drivers to separate themselves with consistently elite performance over the final two months. And in conjunction with a more exclusive field there’d be plenty of reason for everyone to try to compete at a high level each week throughout the summer months.

If you wanted to go for a complete overhaul you could also revamp the points scale to go back from a flat scale to a curved model, but that might be too much to ask. It would be worth it if you want to more strongly reward wins and Top 5s and less harshly punish bad results, though.
 
We don't need no stinking playoff. Right now in Cup we have 4 drivers who are 21 points from each other. 3 drivers are only 6 points from each other. If the goofs of the networks couldn't hype this up I would hang it up.
4 Trucks are within 23 points of each other
Xfinity 4 within 100 points.
My point is that with today's Nascar, the competition is close enough that we don't need some fudged up gimmicky playoff nonsense.
 
The end races of the season would build up naturally, if your driver didn't win, he possibly had a good day and maybe the point leader had a bad one. With win and you are in who cares if they have a win already. Win the Daytona 500 the first race...and there ya go . It's not just a win, almost no matter what happens, they are in the playoffs. That takes away a whole lot of the worth of racing the rest of the season. Who cares about the big races, they are in the "playoffs".
 
StandOnIt said:
The end races of the season would build up naturally, if your driver didn't win, he possibly had a good day and maybe the point leader had a bad one. With win and you are in who cares if they have a win already. Win the Daytona 500 the first race...and there ya go . It's not just a win, almost no matter what happens, they are in the playoffs. That takes away a whole lot of the worth of racing the rest of the season. Who cares about the big races, they are in the "playoffs".
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Playoff points mitigate this concern. If you don’t accumulate playoff points, you’ll likely be eliminated from the playoffs pretty quickly.
 
I am so sick of this narrative that "The Playoffs" caused this. It had been two years since Austin DIllon won a race. He would've wrecked both drivers to do so.

Hell, if I was him and I had a huge lead wiped out by a caution with two to go and was desperate to win, I'd do the same ****** thing he did.

The "Win and You're In" part should be reconsidered, but NASCAR WANTS someone who is 53rd in points to steal a spot with a fluke win at Atlantadega.

Personally, if I had to choose between getting rid of OT and getting rid of playoffs, I'd choose OT. It's not like other sports where OT comes into play because the game is tied.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Playoff points mitigate this concern. If you don’t accumulate playoff points, you’ll likely be eliminated from the playoffs pretty quickly.
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You are eliminated for the most part already if during the season the team doesn't perform. That doesn't mean because they won one race and are like 25th or so they should automatically be elevated to 16th in the playoffs leaping over teams with better records.
We see it every year after they do the cut offs. Seems like always after they screw up the points with the top 16, there is competition for 17th for the season and it is ignored. Some times, pretty common, the 17th place team should finish higher than the team that won one race, made the playoffs if all of the gimmicks weren't in place.
 
So .., Kyle Larson isn’t trying to win every race he starts in the 5?

Laugh. Out. Loud.
 
The Nature Boy said:
The ultimate goal in every race is to win. If you aren’t trying to do that, you should pack up and go home.
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This is true with or without a playoff.

Everybody who puts four tires on the ground is there to win the race.

One time, after a $10,000-to-win race at a track I worked at, a bunch of drivers came up bitching about how the race needed to pay $5,000-to-win and $1,000-to-start instead because it's not fair to the guy who finished second to only get $2,000 and the guy who finished 10th to get $500.

Not a single damn one of those drivers thought the race paid too much to win when they got there. Not a single damn one of them was worried about what it paid for second, or fifth, or 14th, or 23rd. Not a single damn one of them thought about points or anything else. They were all there to win.
 
StandOnIt said:
You are eliminated for the most part already if during the season the team doesn't perform. That doesn't mean because they won one race and are like 25th or so they should automatically be elevated to 16th in the playoffs leaping over teams with better records.
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I do NOT like win and you're in, but the rules are the same for everyone.

Perhaps Kyle Busch should get up on the wheel and go win between now and the cutoff at Darlington.
 
StandOnIt said:
We see it every year after they do the cut offs. Seems like always after they screw up the points with the top 16, there is competition for 17th for the season and it is ignored.
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Yep. I remember when Ross Chastain got eliminated from the playoffs last year, no longer cared because he couldn't improve his position, and just went to Phoenix and rode around for 17th all day and... wait, that didn't happen. My bad.
 
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