Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

Greg said:
I do not think he or even Hamlin are Nascar haters.
High levels of passion can be paired with frustration in many cases.
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Some people think if you speak out against anything they do, you're a hater.

Unless of course its something NASCAR is doing they don't like, and then it's okay to say something.
 
:p
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Jorge De Guzman said:
I'm rooting for SVG to make the Round of 8 just to show what a farce this championship system is but then on the other hand the ADD riddled fans that enjoy this dog n pony show as well as the TV exec's will point out "See look!! Drivers can go on magical runs in the playoffs!!". So damned if you do and damned if you dont.
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He won four times. Getting better on ovals. Makes the 8....great story. You could make the case that a series that prohibits testing has held him back from reaching his full potential. So, he uses the regular season as a test. Under the old system without testing, you are screwing one of the best drivers in the world, and a chance for us to see him flourish....but carry on.
 
Revman said:
You could make the case that a series that prohibits testing has held him back from reaching his full potential. So, he uses the regular season as a test.
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I wouldn't mind seeing the return of testing or extra practice for rookies. Heck, give them Friday afternoons.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
I would assume they're correct, hes the one taking the polls? How could it be wrong?
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Statistics 101. The poll itself isn't statistically accurate. The participants aren't chosen to represent a wide spectrum of the fan base - age, income, how long a fan, etc. Responses are from only those individuals who happen to notice there's a poll. There may not be controls to keep individuals from voting more than once. There's nothing to keep a block of fans from recruiting friends to vote a particular way.

Same problems as the Most Popular Driver voting, and most Internet polls.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
I would assume they're correct, hes the one taking the polls? How could it be wrong?
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It's not wrong. Despite others trying to move the goalposts or muddy the waters there were two informal surveys done. One by Mark Martin and one by Jeff Gluck. Both posters had over 300 thousand subscribers and even the most jaded person would have to know that those two individuals were tried and true Nascar people. No step at all to know that their followers are into the sport of Nascar. It would be hard to know either Mark or Jeff if you weren't a Nascar fan.

At any rate, Jeff's followers were used because they tended to be younger than Mark's fan base despite many of Mark's fans said they were younger and had never seen him race. So yeah I believe that the vast majority of fans either want the 36 race season along with a smaller group of fans that would take the older version of a 10 race runoff.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Statistics 101. The poll itself isn't statistically accurate. The participants aren't chosen to represent a wide spectrum of the fan base - age, income, how long a fan, etc. Responses are from only those individuals who happen to notice there's a poll. There may not be controls to keep individuals from voting more than once. There's nothing to keep a block of fans from recruiting friends to vote a particular way.

Same problems as the Most Popular Driver voting, and most Internet polls.
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well consider me refreshed its been about 20 years since I sat in a class room for a Stats class. My only retort to this would be why would it be relevant for age or income of a fan? Im not sure that would influence their liking of a race. How long a fan for sure that would play into it. I also voted a time or 100 for these polls, once your response is sent I cant vote again. Unless I had a burner account of some sort.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
well consider me refreshed its been about 20 years since I sat in a class room for a Stats class. My only retort to this would be why would it be relevant for age or income of a fan? Im not sure that would influence their liking of a race. How long a fan for sure that would play into it. I also voted a time or 100 for these polls, once your response is sent I cant vote again. Unless I had a burner account of some sort.
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Gluck has about 300,000 followers. I would argue, as I have in the past, those that follow Gluck are more of a hardcore fan. Any polling he does is representative of his followers, but not representative of the overall NASCAR fan base. We know that the hardcore fans are generally not in favor of the playoffs, but how does the millions of casual fans feel about it?
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
well consider me refreshed its been about 20 years since I sat in a class room for a Stats class. My only retort to this would be why would it be relevant for age or income of a fan? Im not sure that would influence their liking of a race. How long a fan for sure that would play into it. I also voted a time or 100 for these polls, once your response is sent I cant vote again. Unless I had a burner account of some sort.
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I'm as much in favor of reverting to a full-season system as anyone else here. Having polls that reflect my view doesn't mean they're accurate.
  • Neither poll makes any effort to include everyone across the fan base. They don't include fans who don't follow Martin or Gluck on line. They don't include fans who aren't on social media or don't have accounts on the services. They don't include fans who aren't on the Internet at all.
  • They don't take into account who the respondents pull for. Fans of Hamlin are less likely to support the current system. Fans of Johnson would have supported the 10-race-total-points system. Fans of Austin Dillon, JHN, Logano, and SVG are more likely to support the current system that gives their drivers a shot.
  • They don't account for age. Younger fans have only known the playoffs and may be biased in favor of it.
  • They don't account for the biases of NASCAR fans who also watch other forms of motorsports that have always had total-points formats.
Gluck and Martin's polls are reflections of the members of their followers who chose to respond, nothing less or more. That doesn't make them reflective of the NASCAR fan base as a whole.
StandOnIt said:
Another couple of tells are that neither NBC or Nascar are asking anybodies opinion about the playoff format.
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A 'tell' isn't statistically accurate either.

I have little doubt that accurate polling by an independent agency would show a preference for a full season format. Since NBC and NASCAR likely suspect the same, they're not going to pay for such a poll. (Tin Foil Alert: they may already have, gotten results they don't like, and quietly buried it.) I don't know of an online fundraiser to pay for an accurate poll at fans' expense. Even if one were funded and commissioned, would NASCAR and NBC pay any attention to it?
 
DIDIT said:
Gluck has about 300,000 followers. I would argue, as I have in the past, those that follow Gluck are more of a hardcore fan. Any polling he does is representative of his followers, but not representative of the overall NASCAR fan base. We know that the hardcore fans are generally not in favor of the playoffs, but how does the millions of casual fans feel about it?
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Wouldn't they as casuals be neutral by default?
 
StandOnIt said:
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ElitePrecision29 with 1K followers. Big voice, Tell ya what....A surefire way to bring a sport down is to ****talk its legitimacy....that, and having the whole circus in court....days before the Playoffs. Serious question....Does anybody really think that there will be a day when SOU/MOU quit whining? If it isn't the car, it's the system. If it isn't the system, it's the drivers. Have at it. I am jacked for the Playoffs. Can't wait. I'll be in Phoenix, and I will love it like I always have. Keep posting. I like racing. SOU/MOU say you do. Let's talk about that.
 
StandOnIt said:
It's not wrong. Despite others trying to move the goalposts or muddy the waters there were two informal surveys done. One by Mark Martin and one by Jeff Gluck. Both posters had over 300 thousand subscribers and even the most jaded person would have to know that those two individuals were tried and true Nascar people. No step at all to know that their followers are into the sport of Nascar. It would be hard to know either Mark or Jeff if you weren't a Nascar fan.

At any rate, Jeff's followers were used because they tended to be younger than Mark's fan base despite many of Mark's fans said they were younger and had never seen him race. So yeah I believe that the vast majority of fans either want the 36 race season along with a smaller group of fans that would take the older version of a 10 race runoff.
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When I think of quantifiable data, I think Mark Martin. Got it. Tried and true NASCAR people. WTF is that? MOU, SOU, TTNP.....It goes on and on. Might just step away from this crap until November. Unless WE win.
 
Revman said:
You're right. They didn't. Why are you talking?
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Because he was asked in an interview on radio?

Because as a major player in the industry for decades, his opinion is rooted in experience?

Because he has the same rights to voice his opinion as you do?

You know, just because you don't like Hendrick doesn't mean he can't occasionally make sense. He may or may not in this case but it can happen. You remind me sometimes of fantasy players who refuse to pick the best available driver just because they don't like him. Try separating your feelings from your decision making.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Because he was asked in an interview on radio?

Because as a major player in the industry for decades, his opinion is rooted in experience?

Because he has the same rights to voice his opinion as you do?

You know, just because you don't like Hendrick doesn't mean he can't occasionally make sense. He may or may not in this case but it can happen. You remind me sometimes of fantasy players who refuse to pick the best available driver just because they don't like him. Try separating your feelings from your decision making.
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I know its not drivers. But like, I didnt like Tom Brady. But I drafted him one year in fantasy football and he helped me get to my championship. So yeah gotta set feelings aside sometimes for sure
 
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