Excellent article

TexasRaceLady

TexasRaceLady

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http://www.mikemulhern.net/MikesTak...f-the-nascar-world-ponders-the-future/page-1/

PHOENIX
You've gotta feel for Jimmie Johnson.
Gosh, has it really been nearly three years since he last won the NASCAR championship?
No, it's not that.
The deal is Jimmie Johnson may well be the most perfect, all-around stock car racer ever...and here he stands, on the verge of doing something only two other men in NASCAR history have done, win a sixth title...and yet.....
Richard Petty...Dale Earnhardt Sr....Jimmie Johnson.
And yet there is the sense that Johnson -- though so fiercely focused, so incredibly intense, so amazingly fit that it might not be surprising if he does take up MMA, or at least the training -- isn't really getting his due.
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You can thank the chase for the lack of appreciation.

I know, I know beating a dead horse but there it is.
 
*sigh* Another article decrying the current state of NASCAR, but doesn't really offer any solutions.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Why should he offer solutions? Isn't that NASCAR management's ball of wax? They aren't doing the job.
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I agree with you, but after reading 500 articles that essentially say all the same thing, it becomes repetitive and tedious. Okay, okay, we get it, NASCAR needs to improve it's product...the question then becomes, how? So, unless these writers start proposing fixes to the product that is NASCAR racing, I'll just keep throwing them into the same pile of people bitching about the state of NASCAR but don't offer any solutions.
 
SpeedPagan said:
I agree with you, but after reading 500 articles that essentially say all the same thing, it becomes repetitive and tedious. Okay, okay, we get it, NASCAR needs to improve it's product...the question then becomes, how? So, unless these writers start proposing fixes to the product that is NASCAR racing, I'll just keep throwing them into the same pile of people bitching about the state of NASCAR but don't offer any solutions.
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Each one of them to me has a slightly different take on the situation, so It's interesting to read differing opinions even if they are just small differences.
 
Skipping past anything JJ.. What if they just made every car have the exact same setup and everything exactly the same.. put the race in the drivers hands. Could that be on the horizon?
 
Here's an idea. EVERY change to the basic car has to be explained to and cleared by nascar BEFORE it hits the track. Then ALL info is made available to all teams at the end of the year.
 
reck said:
You can thank the chase for the lack of appreciation.

I know, I know beating a dead horse but there it is.
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You nailed it. I just can't get excited about JJ winning 6 or 7 or whatever championships. I also find it hard to compare him to Petty and Earnhardt. Those two accumulated the most points over the entire season, just like every nascar champion did before the Chase.

When JJ does that 7 or more times, then I'll give him props for it.
 
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SlicedBread22 said:
I just see no way to have the cars even.. they can change whatever they want in the setups but the guys with the money are going to find the advantages.. its inevitable..
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IMO The cars were about about as even as they ever will be back in 2001. Cost of fielding a team was much lower than it is today and sponsorship was flowing like crazy. There's a reason why there were 19 different winners that year.
 
FenderBumper said:
Here's an idea. EVERY change to the basic car has to be explained to and cleared by nascar BEFORE it hits the track. Then ALL info is made available to all teams at the end of the year.
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I think IndyCar does this, either Indy or F1.
 
FenderBumper said:
I thought they shared telemetry, not engineering.
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The way my brother explained it to me, a race team can make any modification to the car, but they have to get it approved by the series ruling body, and then everyone else gets the modifications. I don't know if they get it right away, or if they let the team who came up with the modification have it to themselves for the season or a certain amount of races.
 
SpeedPagan said:
The way my brother explained it to me, a race team can make any modification to the car, but they have to get it approved by the series ruling body, and then everyone else gets the modifications. I don't know if they get it right away, or if they let the team who came up with the modification have it to themselves for the season or a certain amount of races.
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I like that. It makes perfect sense, but F1 has more engineers than any other racing. They also have bigger sponsor dollars.

I would be happy if nascar fixed the damn car and made it racey again.
 
FenderBumper said:
I like that. It makes perfect sense, but F1 has more engineers than any other racing. They also have bigger sponsor dollars.

I would be happy if nascar fixed the damn car and made it racey again.
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Agreed, is it F1? I have no idea since I don't really follow the Open Wheel series.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Agreed, is it F1? I have no idea since I don't really follow the Open Wheel series.
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I think so. But they may have revealed Mercedes aero trick at the beginning of the year, unless another team spotted the hole behind the flap.
 
...so F1 just may reveal the mechanicals to, as you thought. I don't know how that works.
 
reck said:
You can thank the chase for the lack of appreciation.

I know, I know beating a dead horse but there it is.
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I disagree. I hate the Chase but that doesn't minimize Jimmie's accomplishments. This is pretty typical in sports. In College Football, Alabama's in the middle of a historic dynasty that will probably result in 10 more National Championships before it ends and their accomplishments are downplayed all the time. Same with Tom Brady in the NFL. Brady is going to go down as one of the greatest NFL quarterbacks of all time and his accomplishments are downplayed all the time. Same goes for LeBron James in basketbore or Sindey Crosby in hockey.

10 years from now, everyone will look back at Jimmie Johnson's accomplishments and appreciate them. He'll go down in history as the greatest or second greatest of all time.
 
gordonite said:
You nailed it. I just can't get excited about JJ winning 6 or 7 or whatever championships. I also find it hard to compare him to Petty and Earnhardt. Those two accumulated the most points over the entire season, just like every nascar champion did before the Chase.

When JJ does that 7 or more times, then I'll give him props for it.
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How many years, when Richard Petty won championships, was he the only driver to run close to the entire NASCAR circuit? Not to mention, he was out there with a corporate sponsor while everyone else was working full-time jobs just to get to the track. Comparing Petty's seven championships to Earnhardt and Johnson is the same as when Darrell Waltrip and Marty Reid compare Kyle Busch's minor league wins to Richard Petty's Cup wins. Yeah, Petty won a bunch of 100 lap races during 60 race seasons, but they were still Cup wins.

Jimmie = GOAT.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
How many years, when Richard Petty won championships, was he the only driver to run close to the entire NASCAR circuit? Not to mention, he was out there with a corporate sponsor while everyone else was working full-time jobs just to get to the track. Comparing Petty's seven championships to Earnhardt and Johnson is the same as when Darrell Waltrip and Marty Reid compare Kyle Busch's minor league wins to Richard Petty's Cup wins. Yeah, Petty won a bunch of 100 lap races during 60 race seasons, but they were still Cup wins.

Jimmie = GOAT.
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OK, you point is valid against Petty, but it still doesn't make me feel any different. So I'll say I find it hard to compare JJ to Earnhardt because of the Chase.

Earnhardt won all his championships in the modern era when all the top teams ran all the races with corporate sponsorship. He accumulated the most points over the entire season to win his 7.

When JJ wins 7 or more championships the way Earnhardt did, then I'll give him props.
 
[quote="gordonite, post: 695516, member: 7706"OK, you point is valid against Petty, but it still doesn't make me feel any different. So I'll say I find it hard to compare JJ to Earnhardt because of the Chase.

Earnhardt won all his championships in the modern era when all the top teams ran all the races with corporate sponsorship. He accumulated the most points over the entire season to win his 7.

When JJ wins 7 or more championships the way Earnhardt did, then I'll give him props.[/quote]

Earnhardt only won in 1990 because NASCAR bent Mark Martin over. Earnhardt only won in 1994 because Ernie Irvan was seriously injured in an accident. Earnhardt might not have won in 1993 if Alan Kulwiki and Davey Allison weren't killed. He might not have won a few in the 80s if Tim Richmond didn't have health problems.

This goes several ways. Fact is, Petty and Earnhardt both won seven championships and the records reflect that. And Jimmie Johnson has won five championships and the records reflect that. That's all that matters. The other 42 drivers know the rules. They have the same opportunities to win the title that Johnson has.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Earnhardt only won in 1990 because NASCAR bent Mark Martin over. Earnhardt only won in 1994 because Ernie Irvan was seriously injured in an accident. Earnhardt might not have won in 1993 if Alan Kulwiki and Davey Allison weren't killed. He might not have won a few in the 80s if Tim Richmond didn't have health problems.

This goes several ways. Fact is, Petty and Earnhardt both won seven championships and the records reflect that. And Jimmie Johnson has won five championships and the records reflect that. That's all that matters. The other 42 drivers know the rules. They have the same opportunities to win the title that Johnson has.
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Now you're reaching. You could make the same argument with some of JJ's championships or any championship if you tried.
Why not say Brad wouldn't have won his championship had JJ not blown a tire at Phoenix and so JJ should have 6 now? lol

The fact is Earnhardt won 7 championships, period.
 
gordonite said:
Now you're reaching. You could make the same argument with some of JJ's championships or any championship if you tried.
Why not say Brad wouldn't have won his championship had JJ not blown a tire at Phoenix and so JJ should have 6 now? lol

The fact is Earnhardt won 7 championships, period.
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Fact is, Jimmie won five straight championships. Period. And he may well be on his way to his sixth championship. And he's still got several years left in him.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Fact is, Jimmie won five straight championships. Period. And he may well be on his way to his sixth championship. And he's still got several years left in him.
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I'm not disputing JJ's 5 championships like you are with Earnhardt's. JJ won them under the rules at the time and he has 5, period.
I just don't feel the same about some of his as I do about Earnhardt's.
 
gordonite said:
I'm not disputing JJ's 5 championships like you are with Earnhardt's. JJ won them under the rules at the time and he has 5, period.
I just don't feel the same about some of his as I do about Earnhardt's.
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I didn't "dispute" Earnhardt's championships. I feel differently about some of Earnhardt's championships than I do about Jimmie's championships.

This is apples and oranges stuff. Jimmie has five championships. He'll probably win his sixth this season. He could easily end up with seven or eight.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I didn't "dispute" Earnhardt's championships. I feel differently about some of Earnhardt's championships than I do about Jimmie's championships.

This is apples and oranges stuff. Jimmie has five championships. He'll probably win his sixth this season. He could easily end up with seven or eight.
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I figure Johnson has 10 years left before he's past his prime and he starts performing like Gordon or Mark Martin, so he could very well win eight championship before it's all said and done. Of course this all hinges on whether or not Chad stays as his CC. If I was Mr. Hendrick, I would make damn sure that Knaus stays in that pit box for as long as I could keep him there.
 
Ok just to simplify the point Gordonite is making;

He's saying that Richard, Petty and those guys won their championships in a long year effort by kicking ass and taking names while maintaining/increasing their points lead without a reset.

In my opinion having to earn your championship that way is more...how do I say this? Authentic perhaps?

I hate to say it but the way the chase is, it feels like a manufacture championship. Its like eh coast during the regular season and then gear up for the last 10.

I have issues with that but its the way it is and so Jimmie is just playing NASCAR's game. No fault of his own.

To his credit, he has already won at least 2 championships the good old fashion way.
 
SpeedPagan said:
I figure Johnson has 10 years left before he's past his prime and he starts performing like Gordon or Mark Martin, so he could very well win eight championship before it's all said and done. Of course this all hinges on whether or not Chad stays as his CC. If I was Mr. Hendrick, I would make damn sure that Knaus stays in that pit box for as long as I could keep him there.
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More like 5ish.

Jimmie is what? 37? 5 years seems about right.

And I dont know if I'm Jimmie I may want to test the waters without good old Chad just so he can shut up all the haters.

Gordon proved all of his wrong when he went on to win his 4th with another CC.
 
reck said:
More like 5ish.

Jimmie is what? 37? 5 years seems about right.

And I dont know if I'm Jimmie I may want to test the waters without good old Chad just so he can shut up all the haters.

Gordon proved all of his wrong when he went on to win his 4th with another CC.
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Jimmie is incredibly fit. Like Martin, he'll last longer than almost all other drivers will. And that's scary.
 
reck said:
More like 5ish.

Jimmie is what? 37? 5 years seems about right.

And I dont know if I'm Jimmie I may want to test the waters without good old Chad just so he can shut up all the haters.

Gordon proved all of his wrong when he went on to win his 4th with another CC.
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Nah, Johnson will probably take after Mark Martin, as long as he stay mentally focused, and physically fit, his "good years" should be longer than normal.
 
Jimmie Johnson could win ten titles, that doesn't mean I have to consider him the best driver ever. Nascar is not like other sports where skill trumps basically everything else. If it was like other sports, Jimmie Johnson would have to perform better in the minors/Nationwide to get drafted/ signed by the biggest team organization in Nascar.

However, he's a first ballot hall of famer, has a great crew chief and is a pretty damn good driver. In this era of competition, to have five titles is pretty impressive in my book. This year, the chase is a non factor to me.. the two best teams this year are battling it out for the title
 
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