F1: 2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix

Doc Austin

Back From The Dead
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
1,310
Points
243
Location
Largo, Fla
Way I understood it from post race radio between Hamilton and the team they overcooked the tires with their "magic" button. Someone forgot to remind Lewis to turn the mechanism off while on the grid.
Oh, the interview with Lewis ought to be great fun.

Then again, these drivers always have an excuse for everything, and once again, it's the tires.

Fact is, they didn't need to get cute. Just get the car in the top 10 and that was that. Things go wrong when you try to do too much with a car that wasn't fast enough. Max was out at that point so what is Hamilton doing risking points when he's already in a hole?
I must have the timeline screwed up. because again, I didn't get to see it and the cable is still out. If you look at the highlight package, it appears Lewis has the lead on a restart and simply locks up. Verstappen was out of the race by then, or at least that's what the video looks like. If that were the case, getting cute was absolutely the worst thing you could do. Take the points and be happy. Instead, it was a cluster operation for everyone.

I guess it's this kind of thing that always makes Baku so interesting.
 

Reck

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
29,115
Points
1,013
Lewis has the lead on a restart and simply locks up.

He had it the same way Vettel had the lead momentarily back in 2018 when he overshot the first corner. Lewis went long, never turned.
 

Tony_K

Car Chief
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Messages
102
Points
43
Location
Oregon
Hated to see Max get screwed like that. Was looking forward to him winning and padding his points lead but glad to see Hamilton going off. It helped the points situation in the end.
Exciting race for the different finishing order than usual and a couple of bad exciting things happened because of the tire failures. Glad those guys didn't get hurt.
 

Tumbleweed

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
1,616
Points
443
Location
Washington, DC Area
Every driver on that podium today deserved it. Each one of them had a helluva drive and earned their spot.

As soon as I saw the head-on shot of the front row just before the last re-start, I could tell that something was up with the 44. Smoke was pouring off the brakes on a lot of cars but there was so much coming off the 44 that it looked as if the car was burning up. Mercedes turned out to be too clever by half with their what did they call it, "brake magic"?
 

Reck

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
29,115
Points
1,013
Every driver on that podium today deserved it. Each one of them had a helluva drive and earned their spot.

As soon as I saw the head-on shot of the front row just before the last re-start, I could tell that something was up with the 44. Smoke was pouring off the brakes on a lot of cars but there was so much coming off the 44 that it looked as if the car was burning up. Mercedes turned out to be too clever by half with their what did they call it, "brake magic"?

Nah, that's something they use often. They just forgot to turn it off apparently.

Still this was a greedy move and they got what was coming to them.

This was last year at Mugello. This was also on a second grid start coincidentally and he also took the grid in the second position.


This is them explanation the system.

 

Doc Austin

Back From The Dead
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
1,310
Points
243
Location
Largo, Fla
Well, I did mention Baku produces some wild races. right?

Last week the team stayed quiet when Hamilton talked about the team's poor performance. This week the team is staying quiet after Hamilton's poor performance. I think we're seeing some championship level rattled nerves.

Again, Pirellis takes it in the chops. Verstappen kicking the tire was utterly priceless.

Great win for Checo.
 

Speedbowl14

Ryan Preece and short tracks
Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
1,733
Points
443
Location
Connecticut
Awesome podium aside, pretty stupid and embarrassing day for the sport. You can’t have tires failing without warning down 200+ MPH concrete canyons, and why are you waiting so damn long to deploy a safety car?

More concerning to me was both guys knocked down the concrete hard and I don't think there was a single safety person/truck at the car with them for literally over a minute after impact.
 

Reck

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
29,115
Points
1,013

I am amazed these buttons are even there for the drivers to completely screw themselves at any moment. Hamilton didn’t even know he touched the button that doomed him. Lol
 

Mispeedway15

Team Owner
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
2,990
Points
443

I am amazed these buttons are even there for the drivers to completely screw themselves at any moment. Hamilton didn’t even know he touched the button that doomed him. Lol

Toto Wolff is a killer man. Mercedes is gonna be motivated as hell next race
 

Reck

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
29,115
Points
1,013
Toto Wolff is a killer man. Mercedes is gonna be motivated as hell next race

Either that or they will be irrelevant the rest of the year. Monaco and Azerbaijan were supposed to be their weakest tracks in the whole calendar. Anorther week like the last is pretty much unnaceptable.
 

Doc Austin

Back From The Dead
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
1,310
Points
243
Location
Largo, Fla
Toto Wolff is a killer man. Mercedes is gonna be motivated as hell next race
Well, they were supposed to be motivated this weekend. Remember how upset Lewis was last week and how they were going to straighten it all out?

The team kept Lewis in contention all weekend and at the end Lewis was in position to win. How did the team fail lewis at any point? What on earth was Toto talking about? I just think it's funny that Hamilton as much as called the team out last race, and then he's the problem the very next weekend.

I don't think there is any issue here other than Lewis threw the race away. I also am not critisizing him because he had to make a mistake sooner or later, especially now that the pressure is really on. Lewis is normally impervious to this kind of thing, but until last weekend I'de also never see him go off on his own team. I think we are seeing a slightly different Hamilton this year..

However, a good number two driver can win the races the team leader can't win, and steals points from the competition the rest of the time. I don't believe Botas has done that this year even once except maybe the times he beat Checo, and he can't even do that any more. Botas has to pull his thumb out and get with it. We all know he's better than this.

Checo was never more than a few seconds away from Max, and he was faster than Hamilton, so he's not that far off on speed. The racecraft has always been there. This is definately F1's feel-good story so far. Red Bull finally has someone worthy in the second car, as as long as they don't steal points from each other Hamilton has got something else to worry about.
 

Reck

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
29,115
Points
1,013
Well, they were supposed to be motivated this weekend. Remember how upset Lewis was last week and how they were going to straighten it all out?

The team kept Lewis in contention all weekend and at the end Lewis was in position to win. How did the team fail lewis at any point? What on earth was Toto talking about? I just think it's funny that Hamilton as much as called the team out last race, and then he's the problem the very next weekend.

I don't think there is any issue here other than Lewis threw the race away. I also am not critisizing him because he had to make a mistake sooner or later, especially now that the pressure is really on. Lewis is normally impervious to this kind of thing, but until last weekend I'de also never see him go off on his own team. I think we are seeing a slightly different Hamilton this year..

However, a good number two driver can win the races the team leader can't win, and steals points from the competition the rest of the time. I don't believe Botas has done that this year even once except maybe the times he beat Checo, and he can't even do that any more. Botas has to pull his thumb out and get with it. We all know he's better than this.

Checo was never more than a few seconds away from Max, and he was faster than Hamilton, so he's not that far off on speed. The racecraft has always been there. This is definately F1's feel-good story so far. Red Bull finally has someone worthy in the second car, as as long as they don't steal points from each other Hamilton has got something else to worry about.

You're misreading the situation. Mercedes has been nowhere as a team the last 2 races.

You could put Michael Schumacher and he'd still do no better with the junk they've given these drivers. One thing is to not win the race because you just dont have it but Bottas couldn't even score points this week. It's all the car, I'm afraid.

It is concerning they were in a good spot just 3 races ago and they're now fighting to be in the top 10 as a team. Yikes.
 

FLRacingFan

Team Owner
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
27,398
Points
883
Location
Florida
#ExperienceAzerbaijan

 

FLRacingFan

Team Owner
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
27,398
Points
883
Location
Florida
More concerning to me was both guys knocked down the concrete hard and I don't think there was a single safety person/truck at the car with them for literally over a minute after impact.
If I had to guess I'd say that's related to the deployment of the safety car and I'm not sure the super long, fast straight there really allows for gaps to keep safety/medical vehicles behind. It took about 40 seconds after Stroll's incident and 90 seconds after Verstappen's for the SC to come out, after the initial yellow flags in sector 3 which don't really allow for the proper attention to arrive on scene. Long enough, in the latter case, for Leclerc to race by and radio to the team how stupid it was and then for the TV production crew to play it over the broadcast before the SC was actually sent out.

 

shark77

Team Owner
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
24,942
Points
1,033
Nah, that's something they use often. They just forgot to turn it off apparently.

Still this was a greedy move and they got what was coming to them.

This was last year at Mugello. This was also on a second grid start coincidentally and he also took the grid in the second position.


This is them explanation the system.

I think he accidentally bumped the brake magic during a shift into turn 1, which f’d up the brake bias.
 

Kiante

Team Owner
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
18,889
Points
883
Location
Florida
F1 and F2 were great at Baku.

Watching Checo grow into his role at Red Bull has been great to see. Now, he's basically sealed the deal with his one-year contract, I think Red Bull extends him with a multi-year deal. Just fantastic racing, Baku just suits Checo by some margin.

Aston Martin, IMHO they had potential to score a massive haul of points. Stroll unfortunately had a tire failure, but Stroll's ability to save his tires like he did was honestly impressive. Vettel looked like Prost on Sunday, what a sublime drive from Vettel for that second place and a first podium for Aston.

Alpha Tauri looked great all weekend, Gasly continues to show his growth with a podium and Tsunoda had a great weekend. Once again, Tsunoda needs to calm down. Him snapping back at his engineers is a bit much at times is a bit much, I like the fact he was disappointed with his finish. However, this lashing out is becoming tiresome at times.

Ferrari just did not have the pace deep into the race. Leclerc did a fantastic job for what he could get out of the car, but not enough pace for a podium. Sainz still has a ways to go, but I like this team.

McLaren... Norris and Ricciardo brought in a solid haul, but I still need to see more from Daniel. Norris was solid, but Daniel's pace still concerns me as a fan of his.

Look at that old fox Alonso with that overtake in turn 6, great race from Alonso. A shame Ocon had a bad weekend.

Raikkonen snuck into the points for Alfa Romeo.

Williams and Haas.... Eh, typical days for them.
 

Doc Austin

Back From The Dead
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
1,310
Points
243
Location
Largo, Fla
You're misreading the situation. Mercedes has been nowhere as a team the last 2 races.
They were certainly lost in Monaco, but in Baku, Hamilton had the lead with two laps to go and it wasn't the team that screwed it up. All you can do is put your guys in position to win, which Mercedes did.

I'm disappointed that no one caught the irony of Hamilton calling the team out and then throwing the next race away all by himself. It's been so long I can't remember Hamilton's last mistake, but to throw 25 points in the bin is pretty glaring. Please don't misunderstand this for being critical. It's remarkable Hamilton has been mistake free for so long and Sunday was just one of those things that had to happen eventually.

I really can't tell you how Mercedes fell apart in such a short time, but I don't think they are as helpless as you suggest. Everything was hitting on all cylinders just two races ago. The team strategy and driver made up for having a slightly slower car, but you have to get close enough first, and they did. Monaco was a slight surprise, but I expected Merc to bounce back right away. Hamilton has been in the fight to win every race this year except Monaco, and a lot of teams would like to be that bad, but still, what the hell happened?

We could have a brand new series when the new wing stiffness tests are put into play next race. It stands to reason a flexing wing would work better at a place like Baku with it's long straights. My guess is that it's a significant advantage. Red Bull isn't cheating because the car passes the current regulations, but there's no doubt a lot of speed is coming from that wing sitting down. It's really not fair to change the rules after Red Bull put so much effort into getting that wing to work, within the rules, btw, but if you do want to look at it as cheating, right there is why Mercedes can't keep up. They didn't cheat. They didn't push the rules. They played it straight up and it bit them.

I'm not being critical of Red Bull because their car passes all the current tests. They beat the rules. You don't have to like it, but Red Bull outsmarted everyone.

The new rules could totally change the face of things because Merc is not that far off. Yeah, they are definately off, but it's not like they are lost. The difference could very well be in the wing, but we'll certainly see when they start pulling on the things. My money is on Merc to figure it out first, but I'll flip on that if Red Bull is.

But hey, this is what we wanted, right? We wanted someone to challenge Merc and now Red Bull is 1st and 3rd, and it's not even close to being over. This could get really good.

Couple that with Indycar and a very strong IMSA series, and I don't think we've ever had it so good as fans.

One thing is to not win the race because you just dont have it but Bottas couldn't even score points this week. It's all the car, I'm afraid.

I think Botas problems are Botas. Either way, the heat is on at Mercedes for that seat, and when you look at all the good talent lined up, he's not in a good position. You can say it's the car, but again, Hamilton puts the car in position to win every week and Valteri has a flash or two of brilliance, and then wastes the car. I don't hate the guy or anything, but I don't think he's doing his job very well.
 

Doc Austin

Back From The Dead
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
1,310
Points
243
Location
Largo, Fla
I love the tire degradation and the discipline it demands.
Imagine how much discipline it would take if you could not change the tires or, if say, the pit speed limit was 30mph. Just make the penalty for stopping so severe no one would dare burn their tires up.

Of course, this is the way it used to be done, right up until 1982 or so. Drivers couldn't rely on the over/undercut to make a pass because they never stopped for anything. They had to race for it, and protect their tires at the same time. Currently a Formula One car operates in premium conditions at all times, but in the old days you had to make the tires live through an entire race. Now you don't bother to race. You just wait for the pitstops and go for the over/under.

Most of Formula One's problems come from the tires anyway. Pirelli was required to make a tire that degraded at X value. If you were competing against another tire company, you would be out of your mind to make a tire like that. Drivers complain all weekend about "the tires won't switch on," or "won't stay ion the operating window," or my favorite "The tires were finished halfway through the lap." What? Finished after a single lap?

When you see one blow up and put Max in the wall at 200mph then maybe you look into Michelins, or anything else, really. We never heard drivers say these kind of things until the Pirelli era. The FIA had an uncompetitive series and they tried to fix it by playing fake games with the tires. All of these problems come from the FIA telling Pirelli how to build their tires.

I can't figure out what Pirelli gets out of this when WEC drivers talk about how they can triple stint their Michelins no problem, and could probably even do a quad. Then you flip the channel and Max is sailing into the wall trailing a shredded Pirelli behind him, then he gets out and kicks in front of the whole world just to complete the message.

Pirelli drivers complain all weekend about the tires and then park the car in the wall when they explode. Really, how was this a good weekend for Pirelli? How is any weekend anything but a total PR disaster for them?
 

FLRacingFan

Team Owner
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
27,398
Points
883
Location
Florida
F1 and F2 were great at Baku.

Watching Checo grow into his role at Red Bull has been great to see. Now, he's basically sealed the deal with his one-year contract, I think Red Bull extends him with a multi-year deal. Just fantastic racing, Baku just suits Checo by some margin.

Aston Martin, IMHO they had potential to score a massive haul of points. Stroll unfortunately had a tire failure, but Stroll's ability to save his tires like he did was honestly impressive. Vettel looked like Prost on Sunday, what a sublime drive from Vettel for that second place and a first podium for Aston.

Alpha Tauri looked great all weekend, Gasly continues to show his growth with a podium and Tsunoda had a great weekend. Once again, Tsunoda needs to calm down. Him snapping back at his engineers is a bit much at times is a bit much, I like the fact he was disappointed with his finish. However, this lashing out is becoming tiresome at times.

Ferrari just did not have the pace deep into the race. Leclerc did a fantastic job for what he could get out of the car, but not enough pace for a podium. Sainz still has a ways to go, but I like this team.

McLaren... Norris and Ricciardo brought in a solid haul, but I still need to see more from Daniel. Norris was solid, but Daniel's pace still concerns me as a fan of his.

Look at that old fox Alonso with that overtake in turn 6, great race from Alonso. A shame Ocon had a bad weekend.

Raikkonen snuck into the points for Alfa Romeo.

Williams and Haas.... Eh, typical days for them.
Aston have done a great job with the strategy recently, overcut with Vettel worked perfectly at Monaco and Baku and starting Stroll on hards at the back of the field was going to work out too before the failure.
 

Doc Austin

Back From The Dead
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
1,310
Points
243
Location
Largo, Fla
The cable guy had to replace the entire DVR, so I'll never see the race. Maybe it will pop up on Youtube or something. I think the only really important parts where when Max and Lewis imploded, so I guess I picked a good one to miss.
 

Reck

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
29,115
Points
1,013
The cable guy had to replace the entire DVR, so I'll never see the race. Maybe it will pop up on Youtube or something. I think the only really important parts where when Max and Lewis imploded, so I guess I picked a good one to miss.

Do you get ESPN with your cable package? If so simply download the app, link it with your cable provider and watch it from there.

They always keep the last race, quals, practices and all weekend activities until the next race.
 

FLRacingFan

Team Owner
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
27,398
Points
883
Location
Florida
Imagine how much discipline it would take if you could not change the tires or, if say, the pit speed limit was 30mph. Just make the penalty for stopping so severe no one would dare burn their tires up.

Of course, this is the way it used to be done, right up until 1982 or so. Drivers couldn't rely on the over/undercut to make a pass because they never stopped for anything. They had to race for it, and protect their tires at the same time. Currently a Formula One car operates in premium conditions at all times, but in the old days you had to make the tires live through an entire race. Now you don't bother to race. You just wait for the pitstops and go for the over/under.
You don't even have to go that far back, they did that as recently as 2005 with the 'no tire change' rule. That was the year Kimi flatspotted one of the tires late in the race at the Nurburgring and tried to finish the race (I think he was on track for a win), the vibration broke the suspension and he crashed out. The Michelins kicked Bridgestone ass that year...minus the US GP where Michelin felt they were too unsafe through the final corner.
 

Doc Austin

Back From The Dead
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
1,310
Points
243
Location
Largo, Fla
Do you get ESPN with your cable package? If so simply download the app, link it with your cable provider and watch it from there.

They always keep the last race, quals, practices and all weekend activities until the next race.

Thanks. I'll give that a try,
 

Mispeedway15

Team Owner
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
2,990
Points
443
These comments are so interesting. In most other forms of racing we DEMAND a tire that wears, yet we hate it in F1?
 

Reck

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Messages
29,115
Points
1,013
These comments are so interesting. In most other forms of racing we DEMAND a tire that wears, yet we hate it in F1?

Mostly because of the speed. Blowing a tire at 200+ miles per hour can not be a pleasant feeling.
 

Doc Austin

Back From The Dead
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
1,310
Points
243
Location
Largo, Fla
These comments are so interesting. In most other forms of racing we DEMAND a tire that wears, yet we hate it in F1?
I'm ok with a tire wearing. Like how would you stop that anyway?

I just hate it that Pirelli is forced to manufacture X amount fake degradation and forced to run multiple compounds. Who in their right mind would make a tire like that unless they were forced to?

I'll bet you Michelin could make a tire that runs the whole race, and it would probably be faster and more durable than the Pirelli, just because it's a real race tire and not a fake piece of crap designed to "spice up the show." Pirellis tires are engineered for the show, but you can bet they would build a hell of a lot better tire if they did it without the FIA's "help."

And thusly, the real problem with modern motorsports ..... it's not a sport any more. Now it's just a show full of fake tires, fake DRS, fake pitstops that they don't really need to make (except for the rules), and generally just formulated and manufactured fake "entertainment."

Why not require the driver to get out on pitstops and jump up and down on one leg? I mean, that makes as much sense as changing tires when you don't need to. It makes more sense than running two compounds when one is optimal. Would you run the slower tire if the rules didn't require it?

And now, the tires are popping in front of everyone. How many of you bought Pirellis this week?
 
Top Bottom