F1 Abu Dhabi Race Thread Finale

donthaveanickname said:
Thank goodness. Not just because I wanted Max to win but because that would've been a BS way to decide the championship.
Masi has been very inconsistent in his calls since he took over and hopefully will be replaced.
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I agree. If they wanted to make sure there was racing to end things, they should have red flagged it.
 
Really lame the way everything shook out. I didn't expect the FIA to reverse anything after the checkered flag, but still- Max got his first championship because the FIA ignored one of their own procedural rules. What happened today is like a football referee deciding to teleport a team from midfield to the 1 yard line on the last play of the game, and the NFL determining that that is a perfectly fine thing to do.

Prize money being based on constructor's championship is probably why this isn't as big a deal legally, if I had to guess. Is Merc going to (or could they even) sue the FIA over another trophy for Lewis? Probably not. But I wonder how this would play out had this monetary implications, given that the FIA is basically siding with itself over a breach of their own rules.
 
vince mcMassi, ruins another race, sports entertainment at is best,
 
We had a breach of procedure that pitted a car on worn out hards against one on new softs, and removed all the traffic between them. Never let anyone tell you that's a fair fight. Hamilton had everything under control and the championship all but won until the officials intervened/interfered.

I'm trying to work out how disgusted I am. I was really looking forward to the new cars, but if they are going to officiate the races this poorly, there's not going to be much point. I'm not going to waste time on something that just makes me angry.
 
Doc Austin said:
We had a breach of procedure that pitted a car on worn out hards against one on new softs, and removed all the traffic between them. Never let anyone tell you that's a fair fight. Hamilton had everything under control and the championship all but won until the officials intervened/interfered.

I'm trying to work out how disgusted I am. I was really looking forward to the new cars, but if they are going to officiate the races this poorly, there's not going to be much point. I'm not going to waste time on something that just makes me angry.
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The FIA should admit it’s error, but uphold the result. I’m no Max fan (don’t really like him at all) but he passed fairly given the situation under his control.
 
F1 this year was a microcosm of society.

spidey.gif
 
The first instant I saw a Williams in the barriers I thought George Russell had REALLY screwed up. Fortunately not so.


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Doc Austin said:
We had a breach of procedure that pitted a car on worn out hards against one on new softs, and removed all the traffic between them. Never let anyone tell you that's a fair fight. Hamilton had everything under control and the championship all but won until the officials intervened/interfered.

I'm trying to work out how disgusted I am. I was really looking forward to the new cars, but if they are going to officiate the races this poorly, there's not going to be much point. I'm not going to waste time on something that just makes me angry.
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They should have red flagged the race to allow all drivers to change tires to make it a fair fight. Or just let it finish under caution. Hamilton had the race won before the caution so there would be nothing unfair if the race ended under caution.
 
It shouldn't be possible to decide a championship before a court. If the Champions League finale ends 1-0 because one team got a false penalty kick that's also to be accepted. There would be nothing more detrimental to the sport of auto racing than overturning the results of the F1 championship.
 
donthaveanickname said:
It shouldn't be possible to decide a championship before a court.
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I disagree, as it is easy to imagine cases in which there should be recourse after a live sporting event. If substantial cheating is discovered after the fact, or if it emerges that officials were paid to benefit the winning competitors, for instance.

However, when the dispute is over actions without willful and wrongful intent, even including incompetence, the standard for amending a result should be very high. This incident likely doesn't meet anything close to that standard.
 
gnomesayin said:
If substantial cheating is discovered after the fact, or if it emerges that officials were paid to benefit the winning competitors, for instance.
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I know it's probably not the case, but this almost makes you wonder if they WERE paid to preserve Schumacher's record (which coincidentally is the same as the Nascar record for championships).

Honestly I love racing. I grew up watching literally any (4 wheel) race I could, no matter if short track, Nascar, open wheel, etc. I used to ALWAYS watch F1 growing up, almost as much as Nascar, back when Schumacher, Montoya etc raced.

That being said, mostly because of time zones, since I despise mornings probably more than anybody, I hadn't watch an F1 race in several years because most of them are on at such early morning (or late night) times, being in different countries. However seeing all the hype etc, I actually woke up at 8 AM this past Sunday and watched the whole race (before admittedly going to sleep for several hours afterwards.

Given that I haven't watched F1 in so long for said reasons, I really had no preference who won, other than the chance of watching history if Lewis won #8 (actually the last year I did really watch F1 was when Lewis was just entering the series, and I do remember even in his rookie year thinking that he was special).

Again all of that being said and after waking up at 8 AM just to watch it for the first time in years, the ending probably made sure it will also be the last time I ever do so, and again that its regardless of WHO won, just how it happened. I see so many complaint/scomments about integrity/consistency regarding Nascar officiating, but none of that ever comes close to this farce, especially being the championship race.
 
If wrongdoing was committed on the part of the officials, it should be handled accordingly. That said, Verstappen fairly fought back and clinched the race win and title. I think settling the championship beyond the track - when neither driver did anything egregious - would leave a bigger black eye on the sport and set a nasty precedent. It would make more sense if Verstappen or Hamilton cut corners or took the other person out - there you have grounds for a disqualification or a post-race penalty. As it is, I don't think even Lewis Hamilton would want to get it back in such a fashion. Reach a settlement and get back to the wheel-to-wheel action coming up next year. In his own words, he's putting together a masterpiece of a career. Lewis stands a great chance to win an eighth, and a ninth title perhaps, before he hangs up the helmet. You're looking at a man who's been a top five driver every season of his career, the majority of which have come down to 1st or 2nd in the final standings. As for Max, whether you add an asterisk to this title or not (like with Kyle Busch), he will earn more titles as well. I think the best summary I've seen so far is that Lewis Hamilton deserved this race, but Max Verstappen deserved this championship.
 
Also as some have stated their opinion that Mercedes etc should threat to pull out, if I was Lewis, that would definitely solidify a decision to retire before next season, though again this is just my opinion. Also I agree that this result should NOT be overturned, even though I don't believe it was correct. Similar to how Nascar until recent years used to take points etc but would never actually strip a win from a driver's record.
 
gnomesayin said:
I disagree, as it is easy to imagine cases in which there should be recourse after a live sporting event. If substantial cheating is discovered after the fact, or if it emerges that officials were paid to benefit the winning competitors, for instance.

However, when the dispute is over actions without willful and wrongful intent, even including incompetence, the standard for amending a result should be very high. This incident likely doesn't meet anything close to that standard.
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I should have been more precise. Doping offenses or technical manipulations should of course be punished, but it shouldn'e be possible to overturn in-race calls.
 
Doc Austin said:
Having a manipulated result is far worse.


But, we still have Indycar. We still have IMSA.
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Meh we see this all the time, and in all sports. IMO nothing will top what happened to the Saints against the Rams in the NFC Championship a few years ago, that was totally robbery by refusing to call a penalty late in the game. I hope that F1 adopts the "can't finish under caution" rule which would have made this a heck of a lot easier.

If anything I'm more angry at the FIA for what they did at Spa this year than here. They basically gave Max 5 free points instead of just postponing until Monday like every other racing series would do
 
I wonder what Mercedes wants if the court filing they've done goes their way? I wish they would just move on and look how well Lewis Hamilton and his Dad reacted after the race. Felt good to see that.
 
gnomesayin said:
The bad precedent already occurred with the officiating farce, but all principals will ultimately benefit financially from how dramatic the finish was.

Mercedes should stand their ground for now. On the merits they have a very strong case. In the coming weeks the matter will be swept aside, as the new season with the next generation of cars will require all focus.

That and the Netflix shows.
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A championship race with a made for TV finish.

go figure . . . .
 
Doc Austin said:
Having a manipulated result is far worse.


But, we still have Indycar. We still have IMSA.
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Agreed.

To me, it's worse then cheating because at least then you can argue (wrongly so) that you were pushing the grey areas and simply got caught. This is the closest we're gonna get to ever fixing a race. Literally jumping through rules and regulations to force something to happen.

To me, F1 is dead. Just like NASCAR, I'm done with it.
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Meh we see this all the time, and in all sports. IMO nothing will top what happened to the Saints against the Rams in the NFC Championship a few years ago, that was totally robbery by refusing to call a penalty late in the game. I hope that F1 adopts the "can't finish under caution" rule which would have made this a heck of a lot easier.

If anything I'm more angry at the FIA for what they did at Spa this year than here. They basically gave Max 5 free points instead of just postponing until Monday like every other racing series would do
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Worry not. F1 will have playoffs too in a few years.

Next year already they will expand the phony sprint races to like 6 or so. Liberty Media is gutting this place.
 
Reck said:
To me, F1 is dead. Just like NASCAR, I'm done with it.
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Right now, I feel like that too, but once we start seeing the new cars, we will all be excited again.

Maybe. Maybe some of us will still be to cheesed off to give it another chance. I haven't made up my mind yet, and not because of who won. I just despise how it was manipulated and the rules thrown out in favor of "the show."

Still, Indianapolis is the pinnacle (and usually the best race of the year anyway), IMSA is savagely competitive (especially with the new GT3 format coming), and WEC (while probably poorly supported) will be interesting because of all the new hypercars and LMDh that are coming in. If the new F1 cars don't do it for me, or if it continues to be motorized WWF, I've got plenty of honest racing to watch.

Where Liberty needs to be careful is this did nothing to enhance F1;s reputation, that is, unless they are willing to throw us away to make room for the Netflickers. We all laugh at how ridiculous that show is, but Liberty is allowing the entire series to turn into that. The FIA is fook smashing F1's credibility.
 
Welp, here is a good start... no more negotiating on race direction rulings as they are being made...




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In a year of many clusterfu*ks, this Abu Dhabi finale was just one more royal clusterfu*k. For the year, the officiating was bad, and the racing was mostly bad. The sole silver lining was that we did get a very intriguing championship points competition... which is something but not enough.

I've seen so many people gushing about how great this season of F1 has been. It's just my opinion, but I think it's a shame that we set the bar so low.
 
donthaveanickname said:
I should have been more precise. Doping offenses or technical manipulations should of course be punished, but it shouldn'e be possible to overturn in-race calls.
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I think I agree with you. My position is that the stewards/race officials operating in an uncorrupt way when a mistake is made should not reverse a final result. However, if there was corrupt intent, then I think that's fair game for overturning things.

For the record, I don't think there was corrupt intent, just stupidity to make a spectacle.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Welp, here is a good start... no more negotiating on race direction rulings as they are being made...

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That's an interesting remedy, but might cause it's own issues. The problem isn't so much that teams can communicate with the officials, but the apparent sway that they hold.

I suppose so long as the race director can still voluntarily contact the team heads at their own discretion, that should be fine.
 
Well, I don't know how anyone can say F1 is inconsistent in the way it ended this race. After all, it's the same series that ended the Belgian Grand Prix this year after only two laps (and caution laps at that) because of rain, said there was no way the race could be postponed till the next day, called it a race, declared Verstappen the winner then sent all the fans home and kept their money.

I can 't wait till I get to see what Netflix's series on F1 does on this season when the new episodes come out.
 
Reck said:
Worry not. F1 will have playoffs too in a few years.

Next year already they will expand the phony sprint races to like 6 or so. Liberty Media is gutting this place.
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I really don’t think they’ll do that after a full championship proved to be as thrilling as it was, but if they keep adding races then maybe it could happen…sure would hate to see them go full Mickey Mouse though, after college football does the same there won’t be anything left I watch religiously without playoffs besides IndyCar and IMSA. The sprint races are bad enough as is.

Race direction can be fixed if they make it a point of emphasis. Easy solution on Sunday would be a red flag or simply not going half halfsies on a particular rule in the rule book.
 
Doc Austin said:
We had a breach of procedure that pitted a car on worn out hards against one on new softs, and removed all the traffic between them. Never let anyone tell you that's a fair fight. Hamilton had everything under control and the championship all but won until the officials intervened/interfered.

I'm trying to work out how disgusted I am. I was really looking forward to the new cars, but if they are going to officiate the races this poorly, there's not going to be much point. I'm not going to waste time on something that just makes me angry.
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I would’ve loved to see them dash to the finish without DRS and on soft tires. I do think Mercedes deserve some responsibility for not doing an easy cover under the earlier VSC though, Lewis himself was questioning that before the crash.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Whole lap was a cluster****, they didn’t care about anyone besides Lewis/Max.

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That's bonkers with all of that chaos going on. I think Lance's statement pretty much summarizes how everyone else feels.

Race control has some work to do for next season. At the same time, with this going to court, I feel as if reversing the result would be detrimental to the sport. I just hope we do not get into that extreme, if the case progresses that far, and just ensure the integrity is there.

What we witnessed should not happen again, at least I hope it doesn't happen again.
 
Reck said:
Next year already they will expand the phony sprint races to like 6 or so. Liberty Media is gutting this place.
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According to today's MSa they might be gone because the top teams want an increased budget.
Doc Austin said:
Having a manipulated result is far worse.
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I wouldn't go so far and say the result was manipulated. Max still passed Lewis fair and without contact.
Reck said:
To me, F1 is dead. Just like NASCAR, I'm done with it.
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Yet you will be here next March.
FLRacingFan said:
I would’ve loved to see them dash to the finish without DRS and on soft tires.
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They didn't have DRS on the last lap.
 
This was just an amazing story that unfolded this last race of 2021.
Surprise equals enterainment. Just when you thought it was over,
here comes another surprise. Yes, I was for Max this time. But to be
more accurate , I was for a different Champion other than Lewis. I
do however want to see Lewis get the 8th at some point down the road.

The one thing that still rings in my head about what happened is the
saying "risk equals reward". Max did 2 tire changes the last half
of the race! That in it self seemed crazy especially the last change to
softs. Even with Toto screaming at the Stewards on the radio, Hamilton knew
what the eventual outcome would be.
 
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