F1: Belgian Grand Prix

Reliability is so good these days I wouldn’t mind if they opened up scoring through 12th or so.
 
They still don't do an out lap here?

Great race from 5th on back with some brave overtakes and different strategies. No clue how Norris ended up in 7th, he was getting passed all the time. Yuki down in 10th but I thought he had a pretty impressive race.
Alonso with a positive race going into the summer break.
Glad Leclerc got another podium and I'm also glad people won't try to fire Perez during the summer break.
 
Marcingak said:
It was fine when they determined the starting lineup for the main race but now they seem pointless.
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I also didn't like them back then because it kinda made qualifying pointless. If you qualified badly in a good car you could "correct" that result. If you got a good qualifying result in a mid-pack car you'd already drop back before the race even started.
FLRacingFan said:
Reliability is so good these days I wouldn’t mind if they opened up scoring through 12th or so.
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I'm fine with the current points system, they shouldn't make it too easy to get points.
I'd be open about this if they expanded the field back to 24 or 26 cars.
 
We got pretty much what we expected. Kind if disappointing, but this is what can happen when one team so thoroughly out-executes everyone else. It does not make compelling racing, but neither were the Prost/Lauda years or Prost/ Senna or Mansell vrs everyone. All of these teams are operating at a leave we can't understand, but Red Bull is still off the charts.

Sadly Lando had a draggy set up and Oscar got taken out in turn one, so we don't really know if they would have had something for Max or not. Probably nothing for Max, but if it had played out differently Oscar would have probably given Checo a bad time.

Alpine didn't do as well as yesterday, but the outgoing people can leave satisfied that they were making things better. The interesting part of this is where will Omar land when his gardening leave is up?

It was also disappointing that Ricciardo had a bad race. I think we were all hoping he would get the points instead of Yuki.

I guess the only saving grace is that WEC Fuji is only four or five weeks away, and then we'll see a righteous race.
 
I'm done watching Formula 1. There's no point in wasting my time knowing that Red Bull will win every single race. See you in 5 years when regulation changes will hopefully give other teams a chance to catch up.
 
Marcingak said:
I'm done watching Formula 1. There's no point in wasting my time knowing that Red Bull will win every single race. See you in 5 years when regulation changes will hopefully give other teams a chance to catch up.
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Look, I feel your pain, but don't bail yet. We've suffered through years of McLaren Honda domination, Ferrari domination, Red Bull domination, Lotus domination ....... there's always someone dominating. Domination is in F1's DNA. Domination is the entire point of F1.

I just marvel at what we are seeing now. This is a level of greatness we may have never seen before, so don't turn off history in the making. Embrace it, because 20 years from now we'll look back in awe and with an appreciation of the greatness.

I had a chance see a little more of the race, and there was some great wheel to wheel stuff in the mid field. What a mighty save Max made at Eau Rouge! As far as the Sainz/Piastri incident, I think Carlos could have left him a little more room, but then again, that turn is famous for first lap collisions.

Well, now we get a month off and there's no sportscar racing either.
 
Doc Austin said:
Look, I feel your pain, but don't bail yet. We've suffered through years of McLaren Honda domination, Ferrari domination, Red Bull domination, Lotus domination ....... there's always someone dominating. Domination is in F1's DNA. Domination is the entire point of F1.

I just marvel at what we are seeing now. This is a level of greatness we may have never seen before, so don't turn off history in the making. Embrace it, because 20 years from now we'll look back in awe and with an appreciation of the greatness.

I had a chance see a little more of the race, and there was some great wheel to wheel stuff in the mid field. What a mighty save Max made at Eau Rouge! As far as the Sainz/Piastri incident, I think Carlos could have left him a little more room, but then again, that turn is famous for first lap collisions.

Well, now we get a month off and there's no sportscar racing either.
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What you're saying is true. I can't argue it because I know it to be fact. But I don't know that other people are so wrong about this. Max exists in an era of F1 where he might be penalized 5 seconds for "exceeding track limits" but the consequences of that are far easier for him to handle than what they were even in the 1990s when walls and grass were frequently what we found outside the racing line. I'm not suggesting we go back necessarily to an era where far more people were hurt or killed obviously, but I do think there's something to the notion that this safer variation of F1 that we have today lacks some of the "umph" related to domination by a single driver. You can make far more mistakes now as a driver and you will ultimately not be impacted by those mistakes.

I feel like I can't tell how great any of these guys are. That's the biggest issue for me. I can give you reasons I think I might feel that way, but that's been an issue I've increasingly had over this year and probably the last couple, just slowly building for me.
 
virtualbalboa said:
What you're saying is true. I can't argue it because I know it to be fact. But I don't know that other people are so wrong about this. Max exists in an era of F1 where he might be penalized 5 seconds for "exceeding track limits" but the consequences of that are far easier for him to handle than what they were even in the 1990s when walls and grass were frequently what we found outside the racing line. I'm not suggesting we go back necessarily to an era where far more people were hurt or killed obviously, but I do think there's something to the notion that this safer variation of F1 that we have today lacks some of the "umph" related to domination by a single driver. You can make far more mistakes now as a driver and you will ultimately not be impacted by those mistakes.

I feel like I can't tell how great any of these guys are. That's the biggest issue for me. I can give you reasons I think I might feel that way, but that's been an issue I've increasingly had over this year and probably the last couple, just slowly building for me.
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I agree with this. When only one team has a car capable of winning, it creates the historical impression that anyone driving for any other team is a bum, because their name never appears on the wins list.

In 20, 30 years, people will look at the record books and nobody's going to say "How great was that guy fighting for 4th-5th place every outing?"

They're just going to be thought of as another also-ran that Max gored on Red Bull's horns.
 
Hikaru Kitsune said:
I agree with this. When only one team has a car capable of winning, it creates the historical impression that anyone driving for any other team is a bum, because their name never appears on the wins list.

In 20, 30 years, people will look at the record books and nobody's going to say "How great was that guy fighting for 4th-5th place every outing?"

They're just going to be thought of as another also-ran that Max gored on Red Bull's horns.
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It's not even that. It's kinda like when Jeff Gordon came up into NASCAR - few at the time had seen someone with his skills and youth before at that level. Within ten years or so, everyone who was coming up to Cup was a Jeff Gordon-esque clone. The feeling I get looking at Verstappen is similar and it speaks to how F1 has changed and shifted, really most strongly since F3000 was replaced with GP2. I get this sense of circular reasoning with F1 talent - they're the best because they're in F1 and you can't get to F1 unless you're the best - except that we all know there are guys on the grid who are or have historically not belonged on the grid based on talent. Is Felipe Drugovich or anyone in F2 this year really a better potential F1 prospect than every single driver in WEC, IMSA, Indycar, and Super Formula? I just can't buy into that being true when we're talking about what is an amateur racing series vs. pros.
 
Sainz is wrong for this, placing the blame on Piastri. Typical Spa T1 start stuff at most. Carlos had locked up and had to dive inside of Hamilton not to hit in the ass as well.



 
virtualbalboa said:
It's not even that. It's kinda like when Jeff Gordon came up into NASCAR - few at the time had seen someone with his skills and youth before at that level. Within ten years or so, everyone who was coming up to Cup was a Jeff Gordon-esque clone. The feeling I get looking at Verstappen is similar and it speaks to how F1 has changed and shifted, really most strongly since F3000 was replaced with GP2. I get this sense of circular reasoning with F1 talent - they're the best because they're in F1 and you can't get to F1 unless you're the best - except that we all know there are guys on the grid who are or have historically not belonged on the grid based on talent. Is Felipe Drugovich or anyone in F2 this year really a better potential F1 prospect than every single driver in WEC, IMSA, Indycar, and Super Formula? I just can't buy into that being true when we're talking about what is an amateur racing series vs. pros.
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The Super License system doesn’t help either in how it funnels talent into FIA-sanctioned junior series to earn greater amounts of SL points. But it really does seem like now more than ever you need to get your foot in the door with a team academy at a very early stage. It’s just a very incestuous atmosphere, there’s no such thing as F2/F3 standalone events so you’re always hanging around the F1 paddock building connections no one else is, gaining experience on all the same tracks F1 runs.

I doubt you’ll ever see anything again like Michael Schumacher first making a name for himself more as a Mercedes junior in the WSC Saubers than for what he did in junior formula cars.

Though Max has an incredible track record and I fully believe he’s an amazing talent based off of how he’s smashed all of his teammates and did so well in his very first year in cars at 16 years old in Euro F3 while most of his competitors were several years older than him.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The Super License system doesn’t help either in how it funnels talent into FIA-sanctioned junior series to earn greater amounts of SL points. But it really does seem like now more than ever you need to get your foot in the door with a team academy at a very early stage. It’s just a very incestuous atmosphere, there’s no such thing as F2/F3 standalone events so you’re always hanging around the F1 paddock building connections no one else is, gaining experience on all the same tracks F1 runs.

I doubt you’ll ever see anything again like Michael Schumacher first making a name for himself more as a Mercedes junior in the WSC Saubers than for what he did in junior formula cars.

Though Max has an incredible track record and I fully believe he’s an amazing talent based off of how he’s smashed all of his teammates and did so well in his very first year in cars at 16 years old in Euro F3 while most of his competitors were several years older than him.
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Yes he is. Taking down Lewis at 23 years old to win that title was epic, he’s an all time great folks. Add to that he’s already 5th on the wins list at 45!
 
I remember people thinking Red Bull were lunatics for moving Max up to F1 with Toro Rossi after just one season of cars, bypassing GP2/GP3 entirely. It turned out to be entirely warranted. He’s probably the last we’ll see do that.

Raikkonen was much the same way, which is a bit ironic since Red Bull wanted Enrique Bernoldi in the car back when they were partnered with Sauber. The decision to award Kimi the seat with so little experience pretty much destroyed the Red Bull/Sauber relationship and RB sold their majority stake in the team, setting off to go another way in forming their own operation.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The Super License system doesn’t help either in how it funnels talent into FIA-sanctioned junior series to earn greater amounts of SL points. But it really does seem like now more than ever you need to get your foot in the door with a team academy at a very early stage. It’s just a very incestuous atmosphere, there’s no such thing as F2/F3 standalone events so you’re always hanging around the F1 paddock building connections no one else is, gaining experience on all the same tracks F1 runs.

I doubt you’ll ever see anything again like Michael Schumacher first making a name for himself more as a Mercedes junior in the WSC Saubers than for what he did in junior formula cars.

Though Max has an incredible track record and I fully believe he’s an amazing talent based off of how he’s smashed all of his teammates and did so well in his very first year in cars at 16 years old in Euro F3 while most of his competitors were several years older than him.
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I remember watching Max in Euro F3 in 2014 and you could just tell he was something special. He didn't even win the championship but the talent was visible with the naked eye.

The Super Licence points system could use some changes but it exists for a good reason. It was meant to prevent rich kids from buying their way into F1 after finishing 10th in GP2. I think even without the super license requirements drivers coming to F1 from sports cars or touring cars would be incredibly rare as these cars are just so different from open-wheelers

Mispeedway15 said:
Yes he is. Taking down Lewis at 23 years old to win that title was epic, he’s an all time great folks. Add to that he’s already 5th on the wins list at 45!
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It's pretty scary right now. Max is in his prime right now but I'm pretty sure he'll be in his prime for several more years. Hamilton was 29 when he became a serial winner. If Max and Red Bull continue to do what they've been doing he might get to 100 wins before he turns 30.
 
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