Get over it

TexasRaceLady said:
Bingo! If there's 100K fans in the stands, you'll have that many opinions about what needs to "fixed" to make the
racing better. At no time will every fan be satisfied/happy with the racing.

Just look at this forum. At no time is everyone in agreement. Some feel that the racing is good. Some feel the racing
could be better if only (fill in the blank) happened. Some like to overwhelm us with their "superior knowledge" and talk
as if we're idiots for just being fans. Some think the racing sucks and will not watch a race, but come here and beat
us over the head for being fools for watching.

The writer DOES have a point --- those items are NEVER coming back. OK. So be it. Those of you who get your panties
in a wad about it, just let us enjoy what we have, while we still have it --- warts and all. Yes, we know it's changed and we make
not like the changes, but WE don't make the rules. NASCAR is my chosen sport and I'll watch the races until my fingers are
no longer capable of holding the remote ---

Now, I'm not pointing any fingers, or naming any names. If you chose to see yourself in anything I've said, so be it. These are
my opinions and pertain to no one in particular. So please don't get offended.
Click to expand...

Some like to overwhelm us with their "superior knowledge" and talk as if we're idiots for just being fans.

In fairness to me I have never called anyone an idiot but I did once call a member *&#E for brains and got into trouble.......:D

*JMO but if more people quit worrying about what they perceive others think about their individual preferences, quit worrying about what they perceive as an individual's motives, stay away from topics and members they don't care for and if all else fails make liberal use of the ignore button life would be much more pleasant for them. The forum should be a place where people enjoy themselves and different people enjoy themselves in ways we may not understand and as long as it is within the rules it should all be cool.

*This is all my opinion and any resemblance to forum members, living or dead, is purely coincidental
 
AdoubleU24 said:
He thinks that no amount of aero tinkering will make for more passing because of how even everything is made from the cars, equipment, engineering, deeply talented field, etc.

That's not correct imo. If they make the aero changes we've all beaten to death on this board, you'll no doubt see the cream rise to the top. The drivers will have to man handle loose race cars all day, and corner speeds will drop...you tellin me passing won't increase?
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The thing is, what you are suggesting is exactly what has already happened over the last three years. Total aerodynamic downforce was reduced in 2015, again in 2016, and again in 2017. Downforce today is lower than it has been *at least* since 1991 when the new bodies were introduced (now called Gen 4, IIRC). When people call for higher ride heights and no side skirts like the 1990's, they are forgetting that those 1990's cars had other aero devices, namely the big spoilers and shapes of front ends and fenders. They had more downforce than we have today. (The splitter/ride height/side skirts are still there to prevent flight.)

Today's cars are loose, meaning not stuck to the ground, they are a handful to drive fast, and corner speeds are sharply lower than a couple years ago. At Michigan, straightaway 218 mph down to mid-170's in the corner in qualifying, and low-160's on older tires. Two years ago, there was no lifting or just a tiny, brief lift in qualifying. A big difference, and a big increase in driving skill required to survive on the razor's edge for 400 miles.

Look at Pocono a week ago... rampant brake failures due to sharply higher braking forces from corner entry to the apex. Two years ago, there was only light braking at Pocono because the high downforce limited straightaway speeds (drag) and permitted higher mid-corner speeds. Small calipers and rotors were more than adequate. I've read that next race at Pocono the teams will be using Martinsville brakes.

Sorry to ramble on. Aerodynamics is a very complex science. I think Nascar has done a pretty good job of managing it, in recent years. Reducing side force and rear steer are the next crucial tasks, IMO.
 
Snappy D said:
I don't think there are as many customers as before all these changes starting taking place. That's what I'm pointing out.
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Nascar has not ingratiated itself with younger people and alienated many of its fans in longstanding. You are never going to be everything to everybody but Nascar has implemented rules that seem to appeal to very few based upon the number of fans that have put it in the rear view mirror and the lack of young enthusiastic noobs.
 
LewTheShoe said:
The thing is, what you are suggesting is exactly what has already happened over the last three years. Total aerodynamic downforce was reduced in 2015, again in 2016, and again in 2017. Downforce today is lower than it has been *at least* since 1991 when the new bodies were introduced (now called Gen 4, IIRC). When people call for higher ride heights and no side skirts like the 1990's, they are forgetting that those 1990's cars had other aero devices, namely the big spoilers and shapes of front ends and fenders. They had more downforce than we have today. (The splitter/ride height/side skirts are still there to prevent flight.)

Today's cars are loose, meaning not stuck to the ground, they are a handful to drive fast, and corner speeds are sharply lower than a couple years ago. At Michigan, straightaway 218 mph down to mid-170's in the corner in qualifying, and low-160's on older tires. Two years ago, there was no lifting or just a tiny, brief lift in qualifying. A big difference, and a big increase in driving skill required to survive on the razor's edge for 400 miles.

Look at Pocono a week ago... rampant brake failures due to sharply higher braking forces from corner entry to the apex. Two years ago, there was only light braking at Pocono because the high downforce limited straightaway speeds (drag) and permitted higher mid-corner speeds. Small calipers and rotors were more than adequate. I've read that next race at Pocono the teams will be using Martinsville brakes.

Sorry to ramble on. Aerodynamics is a very complex science. I think Nascar has done a pretty good job of managing it, in recent years. Reducing side force and rear steer are the next crucial tasks, IMO.
Click to expand...

they put Crafton out front in the trucks with no tires and only a splash of fuel and he stayed out front until a caution restart got him..truck race..1 mile track-- clean air.

They threw Kyle Dam Bush out front with a quick stop, I think fuel only and he held it until a caution restart.--clean air. It is exactly what the author is saying, cars are so close to the same and any advantage to get out front in clean air is the ticket to a win.
The larger changes I see working are the changes they are making to the tracks, multi groove racing. Texas is a success story so far. Three races on the new configuration and three good races with plenty of action thru out. Bristol with the VHT? good side by side racing there. Kansas with multilane progressive banking had good action. Both the changes to the cars and to the tracks are definitely improving the racing IMO. But most of the passing will always be on the restarts.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I hope this guy never goes into customer service or he will bankrupt the company in a week.
Click to expand...
Journalists arent in the business of profits. Only eyes.

Its the equivalent of a prospect walking into a showroom & leaving without a purchase. They have no idea what its like work the last step towards the bottom line.
 
StandOnIt said:
they put Crafton out front in the trucks with no tires and only a splash of fuel and he stayed out front until a caution restart got him..truck race..1 mile track-- clean air.
Click to expand...
Nascar trucks have huge downforce, and clean air is always important. Three years ago, Cup cars had downforce close to the trucks, but no longer.
 
Team Penske said:
I can't find it. How do you ignore threads?
Click to expand...

Unless something has changed you can't but I wish you could as someone has been starting a new thread every hour lately and I am surprised that most of them have not been folded into the "random stuff to talk about" thread.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Bingo! If there's 100K fans in the stands, you'll have that many opinions about what needs to "fixed" to make the
racing better. At no time will every fan be satisfied/happy with the racing.

Just look at this forum. At no time is everyone in agreement. Some feel that the racing is good. Some feel the racing
could be better if only (fill in the blank) happened. Some like to overwhelm us with their "superior knowledge" and talk
as if we're idiots for just being fans. Some think the racing sucks and will not watch a race, but come here and beat
us over the head for being fools for watching.

The writer DOES have a point --- those items are NEVER coming back. OK. So be it. Those of you who get your panties
in a wad about it, just let us enjoy what we have, while we still have it --- warts and all. Yes, we know it's changed and we make
not like the changes, but WE don't make the rules. NASCAR is my chosen sport and I'll watch the races until my fingers are
no longer capable of holding the remote ---

Now, I'm not pointing any fingers, or naming any names. If you chose to see yourself in anything I've said, so be it. These are
my opinions and pertain to no one in particular. So please don't get offended.
Click to expand...
Best post of the thread.
 
StandOnIt said:
I wasn't talking about down force ---clean air.
Click to expand...
But they are so closely related. When a car or truck has high downforce, but then goes into dirty air, it loses a lot of its downforce. That creates aero push, so the leading car (with clean air) won't be passed by the one in dirty air.

The theory is... reduce the downforce, so dirty air will have less adverse handling effects. And the theory is working. That is why the 2017 Cup racing has been so good. Just my $0.02.
 
LewTheShoe said:
But they are so closely related. When a car or truck has high downforce, but then goes into dirty air, it loses a lot of its downforce. That creates aero push, so the leading car (with clean air) won't be passed by the one in dirty air.

The theory is... reduce the downforce, so dirty air will have less adverse handling effects. And the theory is working. That is why the 2017 Cup racing has been so good. Just my $0.02.
Click to expand...

Here is what I am talking about--clean air.Doesn't make a crap how little downforce you have if you can't get some clean air on the car..I didn't know those goofs used the tire dragon down low and made a one lane track out of the freakin thing. :confused:

CRANDALL: How to train Michigan's dragon
http://www.racer.com/nascar/item/141579-crandall-how-to-train-michigan-s-dragon
 
TexasRaceLady said:
For the life of me, I can't understand why they didn't use that thing up higher, also. SMH
Click to expand...

I just ran on to that..no wonder. I guess I missed it if they said anything in the booth about dragging a grove in the track. But yeah, I couldn't figure out why they weren't racing all over that track this year..that is what they do up there.
 
I stopped reading at "Did I mention all those races I covered in the '90s with margins of victory larger than the running time of "Batman vs. Superman?" Trust me when I say late race restarts are better."

It amazes me how many people that work in racing hate actual racing.
 
I am sitting in my vehicle right now and I just heard Ray Everham on Nassau radio say quote " Let's be honest the racing at Michigan was not very good". So if a guy with his experience says that the racing is not very good and clean air is king. I have to ask what racing are some of you watching. Clean air is king .
A journalist was on Nascar radio today and said even though Michigan was a poor race it still had the most green flag on track passes of the year, the number was 4.
Four green flag passes and that is the most less restrictor plate races. Is there any wonder the fans interest is lax?
God bless you people who see the races through rose colored glasses on Sunday afternoons, but hard numbers and facts tell a different story.
 
nitetrain said:
A journalist was on Nascar radio today and said even though Michigan was a poor race it still had the most green flag on track passes of the year, the number was 4.
Four green flag passes and that is the most less restrictor plate races. Is there any wonder the fans interest is lax?
Click to expand...


heh heh Maybe you or "the journalist" were confused :confused:


2017 Quality Passes
The number of times a driver passes another car that is running in the top 15 while under green flag conditions

http://www.mrn.com/Race-Series/NASC...stics/2017-Loop-Data/2017-Quality-Passes.aspx
 
nitetrain said:
I am sitting in my vehicle right now and I just heard Ray Everham on Nassau radio say quote " Let's be honest the racing at Michigan was not very good". So if a guy with his experience says that the racing is not very good and clean air is king. I have to ask what racing are some of you watching. Clean air is king .
A journalist was on Nascar radio today and said even though Michigan was a poor race it still had the most green flag on track passes of the year, the number was 4.
Four green flag passes and that is the most less restrictor plate races. Is there any wonder the fans interest is lax?
God bless you people who see the races through rose colored glasses on Sunday afternoons, but hard numbers and facts tell a different story.
Click to expand...

*There is a contingent of longtime fans that ain't happy about some of the things Nascar has done but they are committed people and they are going to be fans until they assume room temp. I know a guy that says every race is a good race and another enamored with down-force and drag and God bless them for it but unfortunately there are not enough people that feel that way. I looked at some stats that @FLRacingFan posted on the TV thread and the MIS race is down 40% in viewership from 5 years ago and 65-70% of the people that watched the race were over 50. People can draw whatever conclusions they like from that.

*Please don't get angry as I am expressing some opinion and fact. If you enjoy that daylights out of Nascar and look forward to seeing each race I applaud you and I don't think you lack intelligence or are nuttier than a fruitcake.
 
Ryan misses the pointon Dale

The reason that Dale meant so much is because the common folk related to him. Thats who they wanted to be

The guy made millions of dollars each year bit he was blue collar to the core

Race on sunday working on his farm on monday

Thats who he was

He would have laughed at the idea of taking speech classes like dale jr did so he could help the sponsors
 
If a quality pass happened on a race track and no one was around to see it, did it actually happen?

This has to be the most useless stat that Nascar has ever dreamed up.
 
teddybusch said:
Ryan misses the pointon Dale

The reason that Dale meant so much is because the common folk related to him. Thats who they wanted to be

The guy made millions of dollars each year bit he was blue collar to the core

Race on sunday working on his farm on monday

Thats who he was

He would have laughed at the idea of taking speech classes like dale jr did so he could help the sponsors
Click to expand...

Be prepared for a drive by as one guy will take issue with what you said.
 
teddybusch said:
Ryan misses the pointon Dale

The reason that Dale meant so much is because the common folk related to him. Thats who they wanted to be

The guy made millions of dollars each year bit he was blue collar to the core

Race on sunday working on his farm on monday

Thats who he was

He would have laughed at the idea of taking speech classes like dale jr did so he could help the sponsors
Click to expand...
yes he was a simple man that stayed true to what he was.
 
VaDirt said:
Um.....by not clicking on it to begin with........?:owquitit::dunce:
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True but if a person creates repeative click bait threads often enough their threads dominate the page. Especially if you use the new post feature. I like the feature because it allows me to find the most recent unread post. But that just stacks up the unread desired content for me.
So I ignore a few, problem solved.
(mostly a poduim issue for me)
 
Greg said:
True but if a person creates repeative click bait threads often enough their threads dominate the page. Especially if you use the new post feature. I like the feature because it allows me to find the most recent unread post. But that just stacks up the unread desired content for me.
So I ignore a few, problem solved.
(mostly a poduim issue for me)
Click to expand...

We have had several threads started in this section that haven't got much play but fortunately they are dropping down into never land.
 
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