Get this through my thick head - The slowing of the cars to produce better racing

dpkimmel2001

dpkimmel2001

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I read on here from time to time and I've been hearing it a a lot after Eldora..... They need to slow these cars down to produce better racing. I guess I'm having a real hard time grasping this concept. Sure, the trucks put on a great race at Eldora and they were going slow. To me the racing was good because the trucks were running on the edge of handling. That's what made the race a good race. It seems to me that if you want to produce good racing by slowing the cars down, make them even harder to handle. That would naturally slow them down. I am hearing now on NASCAR Radio that they need to slow the cars down @ Indy and other track to produce better racing. Many have mentioned a smaller motor and the like. How will simply slowing the cars down by those means make the racing better? Why would that be any different than another version of the restrictor plate? Try and sell this concept to me. :confused:
 
The people who have been making such statements get offended when you accuse them of wanting a restrictor plate at every track, but it's essentially what the want, even if they don't know that's what they're asking for. They want slower cars to be able to pass faster ones, like at Daytona and Talladega.
 
I keep advocating to remove the front valence and side skirts to get air under the car. Get them looking like cars and less like vacuum cleaners. The more air under the car, the harder it is to handle, and it is slower because it's not so aerodynamic.
A little less horsepower wouldn't hurt, either.

I thought the racing of the late 70s and 80s was great --- and the cars were at least 20mph slower.

And, NO, Kevin, I am NOT advocating restrictor plates. Horsepower can be reduced by other means.
 
KevinWI said:
They want slower cars to be able to pass faster ones, like at Daytona and Talladega.
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Maybe things are as competitive as they can get. Someone is always going to be fastest. I don't think parity in the answer.

TexasRaceLady said:
I keep advocating to remove the front valence and side skirts to get air under the car. Get them looking like cars and less like vacuum cleaners. The more air under the car, the harder it is to handle, and it is slower because it's not so aerodynamic.
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Dirty em up. By whatever means. A happy driver seems to produce less than desirable racing. Make it difficult.
 
I like Tony's explanation of the definitions of "racing" and "passing".
 
High speed+one groove=Aero push.

Perhaps setting a minimum ride height would help by stopping them from sealing off the front of the cars which would slow them down and allow air to reach the front of the trailing car. Maybe require at least a 2 inch gap.
 
I am not sure it is really slowing the cars that is the issue. It is the need to put more emphasis on handling and less on speed. If everyone is going flat out around the track it would be hard for cars to pass. I think the issue is we need them to lift more in the corners and use less throttle. I think why people keep bringing up Eldora is because it was about racing the track more than the cars. I think I head them say that drivers weren't even using a third of the throttle at the time.
 
I'm not advocating slowing down the cars, I'm just advocating that a sport that was born on dirt and on short tracks return to the dirt and short tracks.
 
You could not have a better example of what folks appear to want than Indy , Pocono and New Hampshire . Drivers have to slack off in the corners , ease back into the throttle without spinning the tires and keep adjusting on their car as the track changes . So what do fans rate the race ? 2's and 3's .
 
ted@economy said:
You could not have a better example of what folks appear to want than Indy , Pocono and New Hampshire . Drivers have to slack off in the corners , ease back into the throttle without spinning the tires and keep adjusting on their car as the track changes . So what do fans rate the race ? 2's and 3's .
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You are incorrectly linking the difficulty of driving on a track with the entertainment value of a race. The two are not related
 
You have to think about how you'd go about slowing down the cars. If you lessen the horsepower, the question is how and how much power are you taking away. The danger with reducing power is also making it hard to pass because there's no throttle response.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I keep advocating to remove the front valence and side skirts to get air under the car. Get them looking like cars and less like vacuum cleaners. The more air under the car, the harder it is to handle, and it is slower because it's not so aerodynamic.
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I like this. It would also mean only having to pit after spinning through the grass like you used to be able to do rather than taking a torn up car to the garage because the front end is killed.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I like this. It would also mean only having to pit after spinning through the grass like you used to be able to do rather than taking a torn up car to the garage because the front end is killed.
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With no downforce , the spins could be rated by judges for extra credits .:D
 
FLRacingFan said:
I like this. It would also mean only having to pit after spinning through the grass like you used to be able to do rather than taking a torn up car to the garage because the front end is killed.
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Good news is ..no debris cautions ...all cautions would be for spins .:D
 
I agree with a lot of the sentiments. Passing doesn't necessarily make a good race. Sometimes, a lot of those races with a lot of passes are because drivers move over for each other.

If the drivers are happy before the race, it's usually a good indicator the race will be a horrible bore. I think the racing was good at the beginning of the season because the teams hadn't figured out how to make the new car handle properly and the drivers were still learning and, as a result, were frustrated. Now, they all have this new car figured out and are happy with it.
 
Handling, aero, roll the corners, track position over tires, yadda, yadda, yadda. nascar has made a mess of what was the fastest growing spectator sport in history.

Eldora was great because there was no aero BS and guys actually had to drive the corners. Like Pearson said, take the aero crap off the car and they will slow down and be harder to drive. Who are we to argue with Pearson?
 
Matthew2470 said:
High speed+one groove=Aero push.

Perhaps setting a minimum ride height would help by stopping them from sealing off the front of the cars which would slow them down and allow air to reach the front of the trailing car. Maybe require at least a 2 inch gap.
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Has Brian called yet? Don't forget to tell him about the back window. :)
 
FenderBumper said:
Handling, aero, roll the corners, track position over tires, yadda, yadda, yadda. nascar has made a mess of what was the fastest growing spectator sport in history.

Eldora was great because there was no aero BS and guys actually had to drive the corners. Like Pearson said, take the aero crap off the car and they will slow down and be harder to drive. Who are we to argue with Pearson?
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Petty was bitching about taking the carburetors off and now it is all computer this and that, costs more to race and for what. I have to agree, I haven't seen any improvements to the racing because of fuel injection either.
 
Fuel injection has nothing to do with race quality, it was to make the cars more relevant. It's the older fans that keep wanting to live in the past that have turned nascar from 'stock' to 'museum'. No wonder nascar can't attract new fans excited about seeing "their car" on the track. Push rod V8's? Really? Who sells those anymore? Stop catering to nostalgia and we may see more fans get interested. Leave the high speed stuff to those that do it best, Indy and F1. Even Rolex seems more stock than nascar these days.
 
FenderBumper said:
Fuel injection has nothing to do with race quality, it was to make the cars more relevant. It's the older fans that keep wanting to live in the past that have turned nascar from 'stock' to 'museum'. No wonder nascar can't attract new fans excited about seeing "their car" on the track. Push rod V8's? Really? Who sells those anymore? Stop catering to nostalgia and we may see more fans get interested. Leave the high speed stuff to those that do it best, Indy and F1. Even Rolex seems more stock than nascar these days.
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horse sh!t. that would mean 4 bangers with fart cans. I'm not watching that, it hurts bad enough to see them on the street..makin noise..going nowhere.o_O on the track, they give me a headache to listen to them. screeee, screeee, screeee. Hubub.
 
FenderBumper said:
Fuel injection has nothing to do with race quality, it was to make the cars more relevant. It's the older fans that keep wanting to live in the past that have turned nascar from 'stock' to 'museum'. No wonder nascar can't attract new fans excited about seeing "their car" on the track. Push rod V8's? Really? Who sells those anymore? Stop catering to nostalgia and we may see more fans get interested. Leave the high speed stuff to those that do it best, Indy and F1. Even Rolex seems more stock than nascar these days.
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This is part of the problem, IMO. The fascination for the American automobile itself has diminished. How many people do you see taking their Honda Civic or Toyota Prius and talking about it the way people used to talk about Dodge Challengers and Pontiac GTOs?
 
Matthew2470 said:
Tire wear. Think Darlington pre-repave.
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That's the ticket. Have some tires that wear and make these guys wheel the car again. Also, I think NASCAR should mandate that the grille and brake openings remain open, making the car less aero dependent. I do believe slowing them down some would improve the racing and I don't think anybody watching could tell the difference between 165 and 190. If they reduced them to Eldora speeds though it be a Street Stock race and I don't think we want to see that.
 
if you slow the cars the aero situations in the corners become less. the faster the cars go the more aero is effecting everything.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
That's the ticket. Have some tires that wear and make these guys wheel the car again. Also, I think NASCAR should mandate that the grille and brake openings remain open, making the car less aero dependent. I do believe slowing them down some would improve the racing and I don't think anybody watching could tell the difference between 165 and 190. If they reduced them to Eldora speeds though it be a Street Stock race and I don't think we want to see that.
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If they knocked a few more horsepower from the N'wides, they could hold it flat out around the corners on most of the bigger 1.5 mile tracks. It would be an interesting experiment to see if the racing would improve with that change. Leave everything else the same, but use a smaller carb. I think the racing would tighten up and there would be a lot of pulling out and drafting to the front, lots of side drafting and so forth. With the slower speeds, the car would be easier to drive, so drivers would take more chances with less aero and more grip. The truck races used to be like that, but the trucks got faster.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Yep. Watching Hamlin go from 26th to battling for the lead with Joey in less than twenty laps on fresher tires than everyone else was a beautiful thing to watch. It's a shame more tracks don't have a surface like that.
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Yeah tracks like Kentucky, Texas, Auto Club.. the old ones r the best... they always make it seem great when a track gets repaved because of the new speed it has in it. They hype it up so much but it makes for boring racing a lot of the time. Although I did like the first race on the new pavement at Pocono :p
 
Hopefully NASCAR will get Goodyear to just start making tires that wear more. The talks about bringing down the HP should turn into making them harder to handle instead. If NASCAR is actually discussing it and its not all media, I would think talking to Goodyear would be the cheapest, fastest and best route to fix that problem. Or just start throwing some gravel out on the track lol that'll wear the tires down quicker.
 
Put F1 engines in'em and turn'em loose, then you'd see some racin.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Hopefully NASCAR will get Goodyear to just start making tires that wear more. The talks about bringing down the HP should turn into making them harder to handle instead. If NASCAR is actually discussing it and its not all media, I would think talking to Goodyear would be the cheapest, fastest and best route to fix that problem. Or just start throwing some gravel out on the track lol that'll wear the tires down quicker.
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The weight of the cars and high speeds mean the tires are undersized and are prone to blowouts. The only solution is a tougher tire that really doesn't soften or wear much during the race.
 
I keep advocating to remove the front valence and side skirts to get air under the car. Get them looking like cars and less like vacuum cleaners. The more air under the car, the harder it is to handle, and it is slower because it's not so aerodynamic
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I agree that wings and other aero mods make the car more plane than car. But... I'm guessing that driving sedans at high speed in a pack of cars without aero mods might be uncontrollable. I think the aero mods help stabilize the car. It is a tricky deal to make cars stable enough to race in a pack. Once you get to the speeds they race these days aero considerations are a requirement.
 
FenderBumper said:
The weight of the cars and high speeds mean the tires are undersized and are prone to blowouts. The only solution is a tougher tire that really doesn't soften or wear much during the race.
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There must be a happy medium somewhere in there. If they're undersized maybe they could make the tires bigger.. thicker and heavier so they wouldn't wear through as fast but would still be more prone to wear. I don't claim to be a tire expert or even novice lol but there must be a way to make the racing better without dialing down the horsepower that sounds ridiculous to me.. Seems like I hear something about that after every short track race lol.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
There must be a happy medium somewhere in there. If they're undersized maybe they could make the tires bigger.. thicker and heavier so they wouldn't wear through as fast but would still be more prone to wear. I don't claim to be a tire expert or even novice lol but there must be a way to make the racing better without dialing down the horsepower that sounds ridiculous to me.. Seems like I hear something about that after every short track race lol.
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Happy-Medium.jpg
 
SlicedBread22 said:
There must be a happy medium somewhere in there. If they're undersized maybe they could make the tires bigger.. thicker and heavier so they wouldn't wear through as fast but would still be more prone to wear. I don't claim to be a tire expert or even novice lol but there must be a way to make the racing better without dialing down the horsepower that sounds ridiculous to me.. Seems like I hear something about that after every short track race lol.
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if they do that than heat the tires build up is a problem.
 
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