have's and have nots too predictable

Greg said:
Last night's race was another indicator that Nascar currently is doing it right.
The late race pass was fun. But a good race has solid drama all the way through.

And Ryan Blaney as flawed as he was demonstrated that the driver's do push it to win, and even take it over the edge. Harvick got up on the wheel late in the race too.

I am not trying to be rude but last night demonstrates some disconnect with reality in this thread.
And Nascar is showing enough faith to trust the merit's without debris cautions.
I hope they don't give in to some discontented fans.
And if we wanna talk history we should all know there will be some races that are not as good as others, past, present and future.
This is real drama and racing mimicks life. Respect a few lean ones and celebrate the good times. And I want enjoy the improvements.

And if the racing ain't working this year for you , maybe you are just kidding yourself and need a new hobby.
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I just wish there weren’t scheduled yellow flags.
 
2 Sweet said:
Who wants to sponsor a car that finishes at the back every single race without any prayer of a decent finish?
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Airplane advertising is done with a banner that runs to the rear of the plane. :)
Small sponsors pay to have their advertising on the cars racing to the rear. That way they get on TV while going a lap down running against the leader. :)
 
Greg said:
Last night's race was another indicator that Nascar currently is doing it right.
The late race pass was fun. But a good race has solid drama all the way through.

And Ryan Blaney as flawed as he was demonstrated that the driver's do push it to win, and even take it over the edge. Harvick got up on the wheel late in the race too.

I am not trying to be rude but last night demonstrates some disconnect with reality in this thread.
And Nascar is showing enough faith to trust the merit's without debris cautions.
I hope they don't give in to some discontented fans.
And if we wanna talk history we should all know there will be some races that are not as good as others, past, present and future.
This is real drama and racing mimicks life. Respect a few lean ones and celebrate the good times. And I want enjoy the improvements.

And if the racing ain't working this year for you , maybe you are just kidding yourself and need a new hobby.
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Greg, you nailed it again. You are on fire recently... please keep it up. I have bolded the parts of your post that I particularly like and agree with..:D
 
This season is starting to feel a lot like 1998, when 59% of the races were won by two drivers (Jeff Gordon and Mark Martin). So far this season, 67% of the races have been won by two drivers (Kevin Harvick and Kyle Busch).

The '98 season was probably sheer euphoria if you were a Gordon fan, but for me it was my least favorite season in the three decades I've been following NASCAR, due to pretty much every race that year being a foregone conclusion before the green flag ever dropped. Hopefully some of the guys with 0-fers this season will start getting to VL soon.
 
2 Sweet said:
Look at Loudon, 1999.....

http://racing-reference.info/race/1999_Dura_Lube_Kmart_300/W

Joe Nemechek won the race (30th in points) in the Sabco 42 car, Rick Mast finished 9th (32nd in points) in the Yarborough 98 car, and Hut Stricklin (43rd in points) finished 16th in the 58 car owned by Scott Barbour, whoever the hell that is. That is the equivalent of David Ragan winning, Matt Dibenedetto finishing 9th, and Cody Ware finishing 16th.....all in the same race.

That kind of stuff happened all the time, it wasn't just this one race. Gordon and Martin and Jarrett and Wallace and those guys won a lot because they were the best drivers in the best cars, and that's how it should be. But there was so much more parity across the board and so much more opportunity for the "have nots" to compete. If you don't believe me, look it up, pick any random race from 1994ish to 2003ish and see for yourself. The results from first to last were wayyyy more of a mixed bag week in and week out, which I believe was healthy for the sport.
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When you first posted, I wasn't so sure I agreed with you. I randomly choose 2001 and started looking at the results. Interesting that Robby Gordon won Loudon and finished 44th in points, Steve Park won at the Rock and finished 32nd, Mikey Waltrip won and finished 24th in points, and Joe Nemecheck won finished 28th in points. In all there were 6 winners that finished 20th or higher in the points. Last year no one outside of the top 17 won a race!
 
DIDIT said:
Last year no one outside of the top 17 won a race!
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Product of the current points/playoff system. Barring a cucumber, a win now locks you into the Top 16 in points. Chris Buescher finished 16th in points in 2016, but I believe he would have finished somewhere in the 28th-30th range in any pre-2014 format.
 
DIDIT said:
When you first posted, I wasn't so sure I agreed with you. I randomly choose 2001 and started looking at the results. Interesting that Robby Gordon won Loudon and finished 44th in points, Steve Park won at the Rock and finished 32nd, Mikey Waltrip won and finished 24th in points, and Joe Nemecheck won finished 28th in points. In all there were 6 winners that finished 20th or higher in the points. Last year no one outside of the top 17 won a race!
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I get your point but Steve Park didn't finish the season because he was involved in a bad crash at Darlington. He was 11th in points at the time.
 
ToyYoda said:
Product of the current points/playoff system. Barring a cucumber, a win now locks you into the Top 16 in points. Chris Buescher finished 16th in points in 2016, but I believe he would have finished somewhere in the 28th-30th range in any pre-2014 format.
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yeah Austin Dillion is 17th right now new tat and all. a whole one top ten other than Daytona. But he's in the playoffs hat cha.
 
DIDIT said:
When you first posted, I wasn't so sure I agreed with you. I randomly choose 2001 and started looking at the results. Interesting that Robby Gordon won Loudon and finished 44th in points, Steve Park won at the Rock and finished 32nd, Mikey Waltrip won and finished 24th in points, and Joe Nemecheck won finished 28th in points. In all there were 6 winners that finished 20th or higher in the points. Last year no one outside of the top 17 won a race!
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You can look at that more than one way. One can say the competition is closer that it was back then and I think that would work just as well. Road courses, Daytona and Talladega, or a really big one on an oval are about the only opportunities left for that to happen.
 
ToyYoda said:
Product of the current points/playoff system. Barring a cucumber, a win now locks you into the Top 16 in points. Chris Buescher finished 16th in points in 2016, but I believe he would have finished somewhere in the 28th-30th range in any pre-2014 format.
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Important point. Similar case when Allmendinger won a road course and made the Chase in 2014, and was in reality in the 20s in the 'real' standings.
 
gnomesayin said:
Important point. Similar case when Allmendinger won a road course and made the Chase in 2014, and was in reality in the 20s in the 'real' standings.
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Can't forget about waivers either. I think Kyle Busch would have finished like 20th in points the year he won the championship.
 
ToyYoda said:
Product of the current points/playoff system. Barring a cucumber, a win now locks you into the Top 16 in points. Chris Buescher finished 16th in points in 2016, but I believe he would have finished somewhere in the 28th-30th range in any pre-2014 format.
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Didn't think of that...but overall it does show drivers who finished outside of the top 20, did have a chance and did occasionally win. I just choose 2001 at random and have no idea how other years stack up
 
As far as back markers having good finishes, you don't have to look any farther back than this years Daytona 500. Dillon won, Wallace finished second. They haven't had even a sniff of a win since then. Back markers do have a chance.
 
StandOnIt said:
You can look at that more than one way. One can say the competition is closer that it was back then and I think that would work just as well. Road courses, Daytona and Talladega, or a really big one on an oval are about the only opportunities left for that to happen.
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Yogisd1 said:
As far as back markers having good finishes, you don't have to look any farther back than this years Daytona 500. Dillon won, Wallace finished second. They haven't had even a sniff of a win since then. Back markers do have a chance.
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Yep
 
hidesert cowboy said:
as I looked at the speed chart for practice. (which I think was kinda strange there is only one practice )and the results of qualifying. I wasn't surprised one bit. The cars are grouped in 3 catagories, faster than everyone else, medium speed and lost in the wilderness.

1) SHR faster than anyone else, the 4 car found what truex was doing and added their own stuff to it.
2) the toyotas are medium speed. some are faster than the less SHR cars at certain times.
3) lost in the wilderness. This is the chevy's except larson. HMS should be embarrassed what they are bringing to the track for JJ to drive.

for me I am losing interest in watching. I have to admit seeing the sports biggest characters leave the sport has left me wanting. I can't remember there being such a disparity with the cars. last year it was the 78 car. The problem is as I see it teams are hitting on something and maintaining the advantage for some time, which didn't used to happen. Maybe its a product of less money. Once your in a hole R&D wise you stay in it. I dunno but I don't like seeing certain cars just stomp the field. Its not really about the driver anymore, its about having a way way faster car than anyone else.

lets also remember that these fast cars probably are not being pushed as hard as they can run. even years ago jeff gordon admitted to not stinking up the show and sandbagging. the indication of that is the huge lead the 4 and the 78 take in the closing laps of the race. pulling huge leads in the final run of the race to insure a win, that is when there is sand bagging because why didn't they run like that in the middle of the race.
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It’s always been about having a faster car...and a driver who could take advantage of that speed.
 
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