HMS shows its hand but they still are lacking

hidesert cowboy

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I think HMS really showed us something when ALL its cars were fast at charlotte. They outran the gibbs cars toe to toe which we haven't seen all year long. The gibbs cars have had something for the past 18 months that has made them faster, that advantage appears to be fading. the 78 car in particular has some sort of advantage that interesting enough seems to translate to a variety of different tracks. The other unusual thing is they have kept this advantage for so long. There were times when the 78 car looked to be just toying with the rest of the field and could just step on the gas at different points in the season. I think it could spell problems for gibbs because there is always the saying about peaking at the right time. The 48 is coming I can guarantee it.

BUT
the problem the 48 car has is on pit road imo. The 48 team does not consistently rattle off sub 12 second pit times. The 48 team has never had the fastest pit crew out there and last sunday kenseth beat them out of the pits when they were leading and it could have cost them the race. The gibbs cars have the best pit crews period end of story. The way these races come down often times with a dozen or so laps left if a guy gets out front they are gone. it could be the difference. The 48 needs to improve on pit road to be back to 5 in a row championship form.
 
They have caught up. Everybody knew this was coming. It's now down to execution. I think that the "Toyota advantage" was always blown way out of proportion. Game on.
 
The Fords are slow. I don't know if it's aero or horsepower, but the Fords have been slow in every race since the chase began. The 2 team has executed to near perfection, so has been racking up top-five finishes (7th at Charlotte), but speed on the track has been a problem. I doubt there is a fix by Homestead, but hope I'm wrong about that.
 
I think HMS really showed us something when ALL its cars were fast at charlotte. They outran the gibbs cars toe to toe which we haven't seen all year long. The gibbs cars have had something for the past 18 months that has made them faster, that advantage appears to be fading. the 78 car in particular has some sort of advantage that interesting enough seems to translate to a variety of different tracks. The other unusual thing is they have kept this advantage for so long. There were times when the 78 car looked to be just toying with the rest of the field and could just step on the gas at different points in the season. I think it could spell problems for gibbs because there is always the saying about peaking at the right time. The 48 is coming I can guarantee it.

BUT
the problem the 48 car has is on pit road imo. The 48 team does not consistently rattle off sub 12 second pit times. The 48 team has never had the fastest pit crew out there and last sunday kenseth beat them out of the pits when they were leading and it could have cost them the race. The gibbs cars have the best pit crews period end of story. The way these races come down often times with a dozen or so laps left if a guy gets out front they are gone. it could be the difference. The 48 needs to improve on pit road to be back to 5 in a row championship form.

The 48 team has always had a sub par pit crew despite making changes at least a couple of times. Unfortunately a lot of the racing is done on pit road and restarts these days so if you are not proficient at both you are at a disadvantage.

The 78 car has got something special and good for them for figuring out how to maintain it. However I have watched Truex his entire career and he never showed more than being a journeyman in the mold of Brian Vickers, Steve Park and Casey Mears yet looks like Superman in the 78. All I can say is if I was Erik Jones I would be licking my chops thinking of driving a car out of that stable as he has a lot more natural talent and aptitude then Truex ever will.
 
They have caught up. Everybody knew this was coming. It's now down to execution. I think that the "Toyota advantage" was always blown way out of proportion. Game on.

I think most manufacturers have a period in the sun before the worm turns but you can see what an advantage the 78 team provided Martin Truex and driving a Toy didn't hurt either. When a good team and good manufacturer can take an average driver and make him a race winner it is the perfect storm.
 
The Fords are slow. I don't know if it's aero or horsepower, but the Fords have been slow in every race since the chase began. The 2 team has executed to near perfection, so has been racking up top-five finishes (7th at Charlotte), but speed on the track has been a problem. I doubt there is a fix by Homestead, but hope I'm wrong about that.

Whatever JLo had last year has vanished and you can seen that BKez and Wolf have been maximizing every thing available to get the results they have so far. Hopefully things will improve next year or Harvick will cry like a newborn.
 
Wow, not understanding the hate for Truex. The guy hasn't really been on any great teams until he started getting support from Gibbs. He started on DEI/Gnassi, then went to MWR, and now is with JGR, excuse me Furniture Row.
DEI/Gnassi was a small disaster back then and MWR wasn't too much better.
I mean, are we going to say the same thing about Kenseth, Edwards, Hamlin, and Busch? At least Kenseth has a cup from racing at Roush but back then Roush was a top team so what does that say about Kenseth?
 
Wow, not understanding the hate for Truex. The guy hasn't really been on any great teams until he started getting support from Gibbs. He started on DEI/Gnassi, then went to MWR, and now is with JGR, excuse me Furniture Row.
DEI/Gnassi was a small disaster back then and MWR wasn't too much better.
I mean, are we going to say the same thing about Kenseth, Edwards, Hamlin, and Busch? At least Kenseth has a cup from racing at Roush but back then Roush was a top team so what does that say about Kenseth?

It's absurd man. I can't figure out this forum for the life of me. Guys like Truex, Kahne, Dale Jr, are whipping boys because they don't win or are considered "marginal" drivers.

Then when they win, the avalanche of excuses come out to discredit their achievements. Some guys on here just can't win in the court of public opinion.

Truex is supposed to apologize for being on a championship caliber team I guess? He's doing what he's paid to do. Win races. Something that racing forums man crushes Chase Elliott and Kyle Larson have not been doing.

Everyone wants to hate? Go right ahead.
 
Wow, not understanding the hate for Truex. The guy hasn't really been on any great teams until he started getting support from Gibbs. He started on DEI/Gnassi, then went to MWR, and now is with JGR, excuse me Furniture Row.
DEI/Gnassi was a small disaster back then and MWR wasn't too much better.
I mean, are we going to say the same thing about Kenseth, Edwards, Hamlin, and Busch? At least Kenseth has a cup from racing at Roush but back then Roush was a top team so what does that say about Kenseth?
I agree. Truex has been stout the last two years. In 2015, he out-performed all the Childress cars. In 2016, he has out-performed all the Gibbs cars. I give him a ton of credit for his driving these last two years.
 
Wow, not understanding the hate for Truex. The guy hasn't really been on any great teams until he started getting support from Gibbs. He started on DEI/Gnassi, then went to MWR, and now is with JGR, excuse me Furniture Row.
DEI/Gnassi was a small disaster back then and MWR wasn't too much better.
I mean, are we going to say the same thing about Kenseth, Edwards, Hamlin, and Busch? At least Kenseth has a cup from racing at Roush but back then Roush was a top team so what does that say about Kenseth?

Steve Park and Micheal Waltrip won in DEI equipment and Brian Vickers, David Reutimann and Clint Bowyer won for MWR. Regan Smith won for Barney Visser in 2013 and also won with Bobby Ginn/DEI stuff at Talladega even though the official winner was Tony Stewart. Kasey Kahne and Brian Vickers won for the awful Team Red Bull.

My point? If Brian Vickers was well he would likely do as well as MT in the 78 and Regan Smith would too. If Kasey Kahne was in the 78 he would be tearing it up and if guys like McMurray, Dillon, Bayne, Newman and Blaney were piloting the 78 they would do just as well.
 
I agree. Truex has been stout the last two years. In 2015, he out-performed all the Childress cars. In 2016, he has out-performed all the Gibbs cars. I give him a ton of credit for his driving these last two years.

They kept building confidence after '13 when Kurt was there and now they have really become a huge player in the field with Truex. Now look at them, look at all of the new sponsors for FRR, Bass Pro, Owners Auto Insurance, Macco, and now 5 hour energy with Jones joining next season. FRR is really built itself and they deserve a lot of credit.
 
Steve Park and Micheal Waltrip won in DEI equipment and Brian Vickers, David Reutimann and Clint Bowyer won for MWR. Regan Smith won for Barney Visser in 2013 and also won with Bobby Ginn/DEI stuff at Talladega even though the official winner was Tony Stewart. Kasey Kahne and Brian Vickers won for the awful Team Red Bull.

My point? If Brian Vickers was well he would likely do as well as MT in the 78 and Regan Smith would too. If Kasey Kahne was in the 78 he would be tearing it up and if guys like McMurray, Dillon, Bayne, Newman and Blaney were piloting the 78 they would do just as well.

You make good points, but since Truex has outperformed the rest of the actual JGR guys this year, what does that say? Is he not as good as Kenseth, Busch, Hamlin, and Edwards? They all seem to have the same cars. Truex and Busch now both have 4 wins and Truex should have more if it weren't for mechanical failures throughout the season.
I'm not really even a big Truex fan, but the man has been on fire this year and completely destroyed the field in 2 races. I think it is one thing to have the best ride out there, but you still need to do your job once you have the right equipment.
 
Steve Park and Micheal Waltrip won in DEI equipment and Brian Vickers, David Reutimann and Clint Bowyer won for MWR. Regan Smith won for Barney Visser in 2013 and also won with Bobby Ginn/DEI stuff at Talladega even though the official winner was Tony Stewart. Kasey Kahne and Brian Vickers won for the awful Team Red Bull.

My point? If Brian Vickers was well he would likely do as well as MT in the 78 and Regan Smith would too. If Kasey Kahne was in the 78 he would be tearing it up and if guys like McMurray, Dillon, Bayne, Newman and Blaney were piloting the 78 they would do just as well.


It's almost like to win you have to have a fast race car. Gasp!

Novel concept I know.

Truex is doing his job. If people wanna bellyache about it, be my guest.

Also for the record, I agree with you. I've always stated that the drivers from 15th-30th are better than people give them credit for (McMurray, Truex, Bowyer, Kahne, Biffle, etc.) 12 years ago when the sport was thriving, there were more funded teams and there was more parity in the garage, those guys could compete for wins. Truex is not David Pearson, but he's a solid driver who is fortunate to have a great ride. And he's making the most of it.

Nowadays, if you don't drive for HMS, Gibbs or Penske, you ain't winning. Minus an outlier here or there. Part of this new engineering Formula One era of NASCAR.
 
It's absurd man. I can't figure out this forum for the life of me. Guys like Truex, Kahne, Dale Jr, are whipping boys because they don't win or are considered "marginal" drivers.

Then when they win, the avalanche of excuses come out to discredit their achievements. Some guys on here just can't win in the court of public opinion.

Truex is supposed to apologize for being on a championship caliber team I guess? He's doing what he's paid to do. Win races. Something that racing forums man crushes Chase Elliott and Kyle Larson have not been doing.

Everyone wants to hate? Go right ahead.

At some point one of you guys will have to tell me why when someone says something you disagree with it is called hate as it is absolutely daft and pitiful. Show me one hateful thing anyone has said regarding MT.

Kahne has been taken to task for not getting as much out of HMS equipment as his stablemates have. Right or wrong it is a fair discussion to have.

Maybe I just haven't read it but I have not seen Dale Jr suffering a whipping on these boards. He got it in his last years at DEI and his first years with DEI though.

Truex was always a journeyman driver prior to assuming his position with the 78 team.

No one expects MT to apologize for falling into the 78 ride nor do they expect an apology for him winning races.

If you and others think Truex is cut from the same cloth as the Busch Bros, Kenseth, Edwards, Hamlin, Johnson, Harvick, Stewart, Gordon etc that is fine but some others have a differing view.
 
You make good points, but since Truex has outperformed the rest of the actual JGR guys this year, what does that say? Is he not as good as Kenseth, Busch, Hamlin, and Edwards? They all seem to have the same cars. Truex and Busch now both have 4 wins and Truex should have more if it weren't for mechanical failures throughout the season.
I'm not really even a big Truex fan, but the man has been on fire this year and completely destroyed the field in 2 races. I think it is one thing to have the best ride out there, but you still need to do your job once you have the right equipment.

The 78 team has something the other JGR cars don't. Maybe it is a great car or crew chief or better communication or some intangible but they have found something they have sustained which is remarkable.
 
At some point one of you guys will have to tell me why when someone says something you disagree with it is called hate as it is absolutely daft and pitiful. Show me one hateful thing anyone has said regarding MT.

Kahne has been taken to task for not getting as much out of HMS equipment as his stablemates have. Right or wrong it is a fair discussion to have.

Maybe I just haven't read it but I have not seen Dale Jr suffering a whipping on these boards. He got it in his last years at DEI and his first years with DEI though.

Truex was always a journeyman driver prior to assuming his position with the 78 team.

No one expects MT to apologize for falling into the 78 ride nor do they expect an apology for him winning races.

If you and others think Truex is cut from the same cloth as the Busch Bros, Kenseth, Edwards, Hamlin, Johnson, Harvick, Stewart, Gordon etc that is fine but some others have a differing view.

Did I specifically call you out? No. I'm supplying my opinion about the state of affair around here.

Read these boards during race time. The new trendy thing to do is hate on Truex and call him a fraud for winning in the superior 78. These are the same folks who call for Larson to be in the 5 car almost every week.

You're asking a Junior fan if Junior takes flack around here? Read the Dale Jr. "retirement" thread. It's good for a few laughs.

I've never said Truex is as good as Kyle Busch, Brad Keselowski or Jimmie Johnson. He's not.

But clearly the man can drive a little bit. The 78 doesn't wheel itself around the track.
 
It's almost like to win you have to have a fast race car. Gasp!

Novel concept I know.

Truex is doing his job. If people wanna bellyache about it, be my guest.

Also for the record, I agree with you. I've always stated that the drivers from 15th-30th are better than people give them credit for (McMurray, Truex, Bowyer, Kahne, Biffle, etc.) 12 years ago when the sport was thriving, there were more funded teams and there was more parity in the garage, those guys could compete for wins. Truex is not David Pearson, but he's a solid driver who is fortunate to have a great ride. And he's making the most of it.

Nowadays, if you don't drive for HMS, Gibbs or Penske, you ain't winning. Minus an outlier here or there. Part of this new engineering Formula One era of NASCAR.

I agree that Truex is not in the same zip code as the Silver Fox but I would also include others like Geoff Bodine and Ricky Rudd too.
 
Did I specifically call you out? No. I'm supplying my opinion about the state of affair around here.

Read these boards during race time. The new trendy thing to do is hate on Truex and call him a fraud for winning in the superior 78. These are the same folks who call for Larson to be in the 5 car almost every week.

You're asking a Junior fan if Junior takes flack around here? Read the Dale Jr. "retirement" thread. It's good for a few laughs.

I've never said Truex is as good as Kyle Busch, Brad Keselowski or Jimmie Johnson. He's not.

But clearly the man can drive a little bit. The 78 doesn't wheel itself around the track.

I record the races and watch them later so I don't normally get on the forum until after the race has concluded so I will take your word for it regarding the negativity surrounding MT and Dale Jr. IDK what I would do if someone stated that MT was a fraud for winning in a superior 78 car as it is an ignorant thing to say and has nothing to do with fraudulence.
 
The Fords are slow. I don't know if it's aero or horsepower, but the Fords have been slow in every race since the chase began. The 2 team has executed to near perfection, so has been racking up top-five finishes (7th at Charlotte), but speed on the track has been a problem. I doubt there is a fix by Homestead, but hope I'm wrong about that.
I agree and until Penske is involved with the Ford engine other than a user things won't change.
It has been shown many times in the past that Jack Roush just doesn't keep up and he is the major stock holder of that company.
Give it to Penske and you will see a difference, like Dodge winning a championship with Penske engines.
 
If they were supplying that much to SHR, they'd pretty dumb to have not made sure before-hand that all things were equal.
 
The 48 team has always had a sub par pit crew despite making changes at least a couple of times. Unfortunately a lot of the racing is done on pit road and restarts these days so if you are not proficient at both you are at a disadvantage.

The 78 car has got something special and good for them for figuring out how to maintain it. However I have watched Truex his entire career and he never showed more than being a journeyman in the mold of Brian Vickers, Steve Park and Casey Mears yet looks like Superman in the 78. All I can say is if I was Erik Jones I would be licking my chops thinking of driving a car out of that stable as he has a lot more natural talent and aptitude then Truex ever will.


Took the words right out of my mouth. Everything you say I always find myself in agreeance with. I'm gonna just start quoting your posts without comment haha
 
Wow, not understanding the hate for Truex. The guy hasn't really been on any great teams until he started getting support from Gibbs. He started on DEI/Gnassi, then went to MWR, and now is with JGR, excuse me Furniture Row.
DEI/Gnassi was a small disaster back then and MWR wasn't too much better.
I mean, are we going to say the same thing about Kenseth, Edwards, Hamlin, and Busch? At least Kenseth has a cup from racing at Roush but back then Roush was a top team so what does that say about Kenseth?
This is when I started to dislike Truex pushing Montoya into the corner on the inside is only gonna end in trouble .
Around 2.30 but I like the whole video. :D
I've actually gained a lot of respect for Truex these last few years.

 
This is when I started to dislike Truex pushing Montoya into the corner on the inside is only gonna end in trouble .
Around 2.30 but I like the whole video. :D
I've actually gained a lot of respect for Truex these last few years.



That's funny, that was the day I started respesting Montoya just a little bit. haha

I sure do miss Dodge, but that Avenger was a crappy car on the street.
 
Jimmie Johnson speaks out about HMS's relationship with SHR, and it's not good:
http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/sto...ing-hendrick-didnt-get-data-sprint-cup-101416

Even before HMS got 'betrayed" by SHR going to Ford the relationship was almost entirely one-way in favor of SHR, or so JJ says. Doubtful Hendrick will make that mistake again.
That explains why SHR was outrunning Hendrick on a lot of occasions. They had data from 8 cars while Hendrick only had data from 4 cars. Don't know how Hendrick agreed to that.
 
At some point one of you guys will have to tell me why when someone says something you disagree with it is called hate as it is absolutely daft and pitiful. Show me one hateful thing anyone has said regarding MT.

Kahne has been taken to task for not getting as much out of HMS equipment as his stablemates have. Right or wrong it is a fair discussion to have.

Maybe I just haven't read it but I have not seen Dale Jr suffering a whipping on these boards. He got it in his last years at DEI and his first years with DEI though.

Truex was always a journeyman driver prior to assuming his position with the 78 team.

No one expects MT to apologize for falling into the 78 ride nor do they expect an apology for him winning races.

If you and others think Truex is cut from the same cloth as the Busch Bros, Kenseth, Edwards, Hamlin, Johnson, Harvick, Stewart, Gordon etc that is fine but some others have a differing view.

You get what he means....Nobody gave a **** about Truex until he started winning. Why give a **** now?
 
You get what he means....Nobody gave a sh!t about Truex until he started winning. Why give a sh!t now?

As far as Truex goes he could win the lottery or disappear tomorrow and it would make no difference to me. I think many people see the 78 team as all car as it is unlikely Marty learned how to drive after all these years.
 
Back to the subject of HMS / SHR. JJ was right in that that first year Stewart had JJ's cars and he did win a championship with them and all the help he got from HMS. But that was a deal set by Rick and Gene. Seems to me Tony didn't do much after that. I doubt SHR will do much better in the Fords, Penske is the only team running decent and they won't be buddy buddy.
 
Back to the subject of HMS / SHR. JJ was right in that that first year Stewart had JJ's cars and he did win a championship with them and all the help he got from HMS.
HMS sold cars used by JJ to Stewart Haas?

How do we know this?
 
As far as Truex goes he could win the lottery or disappear tomorrow and it would make no difference to me. I think many people see the 78 team as all car as it is unlikely Marty learned how to drive after all these years.

In "all car" he is the equivalent of our Champion. Not bad. Truex is a great guy....IMO the antithesis of what Kyle Busch is to this board, yet the vibe is the same. You wonder if some just like to constantly bitch. Naw.
 
Jimmie Johnson speaks out about HMS's relationship with SHR, and it's not good:
http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/sto...ing-hendrick-didnt-get-data-sprint-cup-101416

Even before HMS got 'betrayed" by SHR going to Ford the relationship was almost entirely one-way in favor of SHR, or so JJ says. Doubtful Hendrick will make that mistake again.

JJ tripped on his dick, and Duchart had to clean up after him. I love Jimmie, but really, not sure the team needed that BS when they were just getting rolling. Listening to Duchart with Claire B. was nothing short of painful.
 
That explains why SHR was outrunning Hendrick on a lot of occasions. They had data from 8 cars while Hendrick only had data from 4 cars. Don't know how Hendrick agreed to that.

The other thing that really pissed me off was JJ speaking to the relationship between JGR and Furniture Row. The President of TRD himself has gone on record as saying that the relationship is very much win-win on both sides. Was really surprised that Jimmie would run his mouth like that. Take care of your own house.
 
JJ tripped on his dick, and Duchart had to clean up after him. I love Jimmie, but really, not sure the team needed that BS when they were just getting rolling. Listening to Duchart with Claire B. was nothing short of painful.
Yeah, here is the AP article on Doug Duchardt doing damage control.
 
FWIW....

Rusty Wallace was doin’ his best to fill air during the Pocono rain delay. He spoke of a conversation with Childers in which Childers told him the exchange of information between SHR and HMS had ceased for the first time since the alliance was formed.

How Childers would know I can’t answer as he wasn’t with Haas in the beginning.
 
In "all car" he is the equivalent of our Champion. Not bad. Truex is a great guy....IMO the antithesis of what Kyle Busch is to this board, yet the vibe is the same. You wonder if some just like to constantly bitch. Naw.

IDK anything about Truex other than he got big for his britches earlier this year and both he and the 78 team have left an awful lot on the table this year and last as has the 4 team and Kevin Harvick.

Regarding Marty versus Shrub if in fact Marty is a decent person he doesn't get credit for it as you are supposed to be decent. Your comment reminds me of the Chris Rock routine where some piece of trash is seeking credit for taking care of his family or never having been in jail when in fact you are supposed to take care of your family and you are not supposed to go to jail. We are at a sorry point in time when we are supposed to admire what is normal.
 
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