Hornish Jr.

3wideinturn1 said:
The best NNS regular? You mean after Austin Dillon right? I don't see any teams beating down his door to sign him at this point. The fact that he finished 2nd in points and wasn't resigned by his own organization speaks volumes about his performance.

Look I know you're a fan, and I'm not here to bash him I'm just stating my views on the guy. He has had one good year in his entire NASCAR career, and it was in Nationwide. He had 1 win and his teammates had like 10 or something, I lost count that says it all.
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You can bash a driver all you want, I just want you to do it with facts.

So if his teammates beating him in wins makes his season, then what does that say about Dillon? Sam had the better season than Dillon. Dillon only won the championship because of a flawed points system.
 
My last post on this.

Austin Dillon won the NNS championship because he was the best driver with the best team when it counted, all through the year, he is and will always be the legitimate NNS champion of 2013, period.
 
Did that big fight that got a bunch of people warned by TRL start over Austin Dillion? I don't need specifics, but I am curious.
 
Sprint Cup is a different story though. He was mediocre at best. Tends to be that way with a lot of drivers.
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Penske cars were kind of mediocre then too. Like all the open wheel guys he didn't spend enough time in Nationwide. They probably figure one year in Nationwide has as many races as two years in Indycar.
 
Zerkfitting said:
They probably figure one year in Nationwide has as many races as two years in Indycar.
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I don't think that's it. I think the sponsors want the drivers in the big boy series. GoDaddy/Target doesn't want Danica/Dario spending five years in Nationwide. That's my theory on why all these open-wheel drivers are rushed to Sprint Cup. Honestly, I was surprised when Dario ran ARCA races.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
You can bash a driver all you want, I just want you to do it with facts.

So if his teammates beating him in wins makes his season, then what does that say about Dillon? Sam had the better season than Dillon. Dillon only won the championship because of a flawed points system.
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The facts are this...the driver with the most points at the end of the year wins the title, that was Dillon. The driver that wins the title had the best season, those facts are indisputable.

Whether or not you believe the point system to be flawed is moot. The guy with most points at the end is the champ, very simple. Moreover my point remains that the Penske cars were going to victory lane every other week, except it was always the car Sam WASN'T driving. RCR as an organizstion had zero wins in NNS this year, which makes what Austin did even more impressive. I'd venture a guess that Austin would have won multiple times if he was driving Penske cars. The fact is the Penske cars were better than the RCR cars this year in NNS. Either way it doesn't matter how many wins, or top 5's, or top 10's you have, all that matters are the total points and Dillon had more despite driving obviously inferior equipment.
 
3wideinturn1 said:
The facts are this...the driver with the most points at the end of the year wins the title, that was Dillon. The driver that wins the title had the best season, those facts are indisputable.

Whether or not you believe the point system to be flawed is moot. The guy with most points at the end is the champ, very simple. Moreover my point remains that the Penske cars were going to victory lane every other week, except it was always the car Sam WASN'T driving. RCR as an organizstion had zero wins in NNS this year, which makes what Austin did even more impressive. I'd venture a guess that Austin would have won multiple times if he was driving Penske cars. The fact is the Penske cars were better than the RCR cars this year in NNS. Either way it doesn't matter how many wins, or top 5's, or top 10's you have, all that matters are the total points and Dillon had more despite driving obviously inferior equipment.
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I agree with you that the guy with the most points is the champion, but I don't agree with you that the guy with the most points had the better season. Hornish beat Dillon in every category except for average finish and laps finished. Hornish had more top 3s, top 5s, top 10s, he led more laps, and actually had a win. Where Dillon did beat Hornish was in average finish and that was by .2. Dillon only had 4 races finished outside of the top 15, and Hornish had 6. Two of those six races with 17th place finishes. So basically a pair of 17th place finish did Hornish in. Sorry, consistantly Dillon had a better average finish, but barely beating out Hornish. Hornish however was the stronger car more dominant car between the two.
 
3wideinturn1 said:
Moreover my point remains that the Penske cars were going to victory lane every other week, except it was always the car Sam WASN'T driving. RCR as an organizstion had zero wins in NNS this year, which makes what Austin did even more impressive. I'd venture a guess that Austin would have won multiple times if he was driving Penske cars. The fact is the Penske cars were better than the RCR cars this year in NNS. Either way it doesn't matter how many wins, or top 5's, or top 10's you have, all that matters are the total points and Dillon had more despite driving obviously inferior equipment.
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I have said this before and I will say this again. You can't compare the 12 to the 22, just like you can't compare the 54 to the 11 or 20. Why? Because the drivers in the 22, 54, and even 18 weren't racing for points only wins. Yes sure maybe you can make an arguement for the owners championship, but the drivers in those cars didn't really care about the owner's championship. All they cared about were wins, and they could set their cars up more for going for the win instead of going for the championship. The fact that Hornish finish 2nd more times to those cars than any other NNS regular says more about him and his team then I think it does about who got wins. By the way RCR had 2 NNS wins this year.
 
BobbyFord said:
I disagree. Sam is occupying a seat where an up & coming, young stock car driver should be sitting. I feel the same way about Elliot Sadler. I like Sadler, but he and Sam aren't competitive in this sport. They aren't ever going to be no matter how far back you move them. They will be field fillers as long as they are here. Soon they will be over-looked for younger, faster talent and they will become the next Labonte, Nemechek, Bodine, Green, etc.
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I like Sadler too and its kind of painful seeing him get it handed to him every week. He should have pretty fair equipment (as far as I know anyway) but he just isnt getting any better. :(
 
The difference between Dillion and Hornish: One is a young talent that is still developing; The sky is the limit for him. The other is at that age where you know what you have and it's not going to change much.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I guess we'll have to find out. If he has to drive for RAB Racing or RPM or a similar team, probably not. But I wouldn't fault him for that. Kyle Busch driving for KBM and Kyle Busch driving for JGR were also polar opposites.
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The KBM nationwide car was a turd, it was a small miracle that Kurt won a race in it. Kyle said himself that his shop had no where near enough equipment to field a competitive car. A few 10ths of a second makes all the difference in the world.
 
sloggie said:
The difference between Dillion and Hornish: One is a young talent that is still developing; The sky is the limit for him. The other is at that age where you know what you have and it's not going to change much.
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I think that sums it up . Sam is 34 , if Austin hasn't progressed any in the next 11 yrs . he'll be gone too.
 
You guys saying that Sam hasn't progressed are just wrong. Penske himself said his biggest mistake was moving Sam straight to Cup. That his step back into NNS made him a better driver, and he was just as competitive if not better than the current NNS champion. Sure he is older, but 34 isn't a dinosaur in Nascar and believe it or not he still can get better. Those saying he has plateaued are just straight wrong. He has gotten better in stock cars and his results prove it.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
You guys saying that Sam hasn't progressed are just wrong. Penske himself said his biggest mistake was moving Sam straight to Cup. That his step back into NNS made him a better driver, and he was just as competitive if not better than the current NNS champion. Sure he is older, but 34 isn't a dinosaur in Nascar and believe it or not he still can get better. Those saying he has plateaued are just straight wrong. He has gotten better in stock cars and his results prove it.
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They only way to prove that is to run a full Cup season.
 
Who's wrong? 130 shots in a cup car and zero wins. I like Sam as a person, but he doesn't do well in a cup car. Seems like yesterday but he has raced a cup car for 7 years, 3 of them full time.
 
So stock car racing = Cup racing? Okay got it, gotcha. If Sam is ever given the chance to race a competitive cup car again for a full season I do think he will be better than his previous shot in the 77. Like Penske himself said Sam going straight to Cup was wrong. His move to NNS did him good, and he is only getting better. He will be in another competitive NNS ride next year and he will be fighting for the championship again.
 
Right now Hornish doesn't have anything lined up Jeffrey. He said a cup car is what he wants to drive so who knows if we will see Hornish next year or what.
 
StandOnIt said:
Right now Hornish doesn't have anything lined up Jeffrey. He said a cup car is what he wants to drive so who knows if we will see Hornish next year or what.
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He said he wants to be competitive, as in he won't take a ride with Phil Parsons Racing in Cup over an offer from a good Nationwide organization. He's said he's gotten more calls recently too.
 
FLRacingFan said:
He said he wants to be competitive, as in he won't take a ride with Phil Parsons Racing in Cup over an offer from a good Nationwide organization. He's said he's gotten more calls recently too.
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Of course he wants to drive a cup car. cup drivers make boatloads of money. I want to drive a cup car ------------ nobody returns my calls, I wax my helmet nightly :(
 
Kyle18fan said:
Of course he wants to drive a cup car. cup drivers make boatloads of money. I want to drive a cup car ------------ nobody returns my calls, I wax my helmet nightly :(
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“I had a lot of people tell me, ‘What are you even worried about it for? You’re a three-time IndyCar champion. It’s the Nationwide championship, it’s not like it’s Sprint Cup.’ We’re racecar drivers. We don’t care. If you gave us grocery carts, we’d want to win the championship or win the race because that’s our validation of who we are and what we do as a competitor.”

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“I feel like I’ve come to put myself in a position where I’m just going to bang my head against the wall and not have any opportunity to go out there and win,” he said. “Where I’m at outside of racing, with having a real great family and also having worked real hard to financially secure myself, I do this because I want to do it. I’m not going to do it just to be out there and say I’m a racecar driver. I have a lot of things in my life that I feel real lucky to have. By putting myself into something that’s not capable of winning or not safe enough, I don’t need to do it which is a blessed thing to be able to say.”

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/sto...ish-in-no-rush-to-pick-new-ride-112213#!oNDQF
 
hornish is done, I am pretty sure michael annett was bringing money to the table for the RPM NW car. so unless someone comes with money you will probably not see that car run in 2014. don't look for hornish to be in that car unless he wants to pay to drive it. hornish needs to step down to trucks, I think he could do decent there. keep in mind penske has an amazing NW program they always have clear back when ryan newman used to run their cars and won all those races in the NW series. Sam just proved he couldn't cut it in better cars in the lower tier series. Another guy that was a shock was elliott sadler, he ran really bad in gibbs cars, he is in the same catagory as sam now.
 
FLRacingFan said:
He said he wants to be competitive, as in he won't take a ride with Phil Parsons Racing in Cup over an offer from a good Nationwide organization. He's said he's gotten more calls recently too.
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his highest rank in a cup car is 28th. Kurt Busch driving the same stuff, ranked 4th that year. I hope he does back down from his "or else" stand and drive a Nationwide car, yeah the money is nothing compared to cup, but he has a chance to win some races. He never won a race in a cup car.
 
Sam's family is loaded. He's not doing it for the money.
Not to mention, his open wheel earnings.
 
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Hey kyle18fan...how much money would it take for you to wax Kyle's helmet? Or would you do it for free?
 
3wideinturn1 said:
The facts are this...the driver with the most points at the end of the year wins the title, that was Dillon. The driver that wins the title had the best season, those facts are indisputable.

Whether or not you believe the point system to be flawed is moot. The guy with most points at the end is the champ, very simple. Moreover my point remains that the Penske cars were going to victory lane every other week, except it was always the car Sam WASN'T driving. RCR as an organizstion had zero wins in NNS this year, which makes what Austin did even more impressive. I'd venture a guess that Austin would have won multiple times if he was driving Penske cars. The fact is the Penske cars were better than the RCR cars this year in NNS. Either way it doesn't matter how many wins, or top 5's, or top 10's you have, all that matters are the total points and Dillon had more despite driving obviously inferior equipment.
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I don't necessarily think the driver who wins the Championship had the best season. If a driver has 10 wins and finishes second in the standings to a driver who has zero wins, I think the driver with 10 wins had a better season.
 
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Marcingak said:
I don't necessarily think the driver who wins the Championship had the best season. If a driver has 10 wins and finishes second in the standings to a driver who has zero wins, I think the driver with 10 wins had a better season.
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All the blind Dillon fans will tell you otherwise. I feel sorry for Dillon. Half these guys like him because they feel some tie to Sr that in reality just isn't there. They can have him and his mediocre cup career.
 
Dillon will be in the races next year...Hornish? nothing so far. doesn't have anything to do with who is a fan of who. got to be in the race.
 
Marcingak said:
I don't necessarily think the driver who wins the Championship had the best season. If a driver has 10 wins and finishes second in the standings to a driver who has zero wins, I think the driver with 10 wins had a better season.
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Besides the fact that that's next to impossible given the current points system, NASCAR doesn't agree with you otherwise the trophy would be handed out on wins alone. Did Kenseth have a better season than JJ because he won more? No, JJ had the most points and so did Dillon, thus they were crowned champ.

My point remains that Hornish was driving the best stuff out there and he still couldn't get it done. Now you can say the 12 and 22 shouldn't be compared but its the benchmark that was set by the organization that's pertinent here. No reasonably prudent CC or driver is not going to try and win every race they can. Perhaps the 12 was more cautious in race strategy, and when to run hard but don't tell me for one second that they weren't going out to win every race just like everyone else. It's the fact that they couldn't win more than 1 race all year when seemingly anyone could get into the 22 and win, that's telling. The guy should have been dominating given what he was driving, Penske was fielding some absolute rocket ships this year on the NNS. At the end of the day he got out pointed and that was all that mattered.
 
This thread going in circles faster than Cup cars at Bristol.
 
3wideinturn1 said:
My point remains that Hornish was driving the best stuff out there and he still couldn't get it done. Now you can say the 12 and 22 shouldn't be compared but its the benchmark that was set by the organization that's pertinent here. No reasonably prudent CC or driver is not going to try and win every race they can. Perhaps the 12 was more cautious in race strategy, and when to run hard but don't tell me for one second that they weren't going out to win every race just like everyone else. It's the fact that they couldn't win more than 1 race all year when seemingly anyone could get into the 22 and win, that's telling. The guy should have been dominating given what he was driving, Penske was fielding some absolute rocket ships this year on the NNS. At the end of the day he got out pointed and that was all that mattered.
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I agree with your comparison . I thought the same thing with Elliott Sadler when he was getting beat with other RCR equipment . Can't be the cars .
 
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