How do debris cautions affect your viewing experience?

RowdyBusch said:
...It's not just the debris, yellows are thrown when cars brush the wall coming off the corner or do a half spin and save it. ....
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RowdyBusch said:
I clearly stated that every conveniently timed debris caution (spring rubbers on the apron, water bottles way out of the racing groove, etc) ... I am a fan of fair competition, not sports entertainment.
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Both of these are examples of when not to throw cautions.

I could understand if there was a piece of metal that could be kicked up and hurt a fan or driver.

But for rubber and plastic? WTF!

Nascar has no problem allowing these guys to wreck each other left and right, but put a drinking cup on the racing line and "Ohhh NNOOOooossssss!!" Danger! Danger!



RowdyBusch said:
I am a fan of fair competition, not sports entertainment.
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Yes, 1000 times Yes.
 
kkfan91 said:
There are more important things to be upset about in life, just sit back and enjoy the ride
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I see what you are saying but it doesn't make sense that a person would spend discretionary time on something that they didn't like or care for. Of course if the activity you are involved in is non discretionary then often times you do have to suck it up.
 
Acs said:
I don't think the clock will make it to cup. Drivers have been publicly against it and they were the ones who suggested it in the first place. That said, I don't mind debris cautions that much. Most of the time they are thrown because of the drivers themselves complaining and they have the best view of things.
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Drivers should not be listened to when it comes to reporting debris as that is like allowing the fox to guard the hen house.
 
How about we just make the cars so hard to drive and the components so fragile that we get enough legitimate cautions to satisfy the TV networks?
 
RowdyBusch said:
I clearly stated that every conveniently timed debris caution (spring rubbers on the apron, water bottles way out of the racing groove, etc) causes me to lose interest in the rest of the race. When the predictable debris caution came down at Homestead last year with a handful of laps remaining while Kyle had the trophy locked up I shut the TV off. The debris caution ended up giving Kyle the race win along with the championship, and it still felt cheap to me. I am a fan of fair competition, not sports entertainment.
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I think the overwhelming majority of Nascar watchers believe wholeheartedly that they use the caution flag periodically to manage races. Even if Nascar was not complicit they still have a huge problem as the perception is they throw phony cautions. Nascar has one foot in the sporting world and another in the WWE world and trying to live in both worlds is unworkable. Either choose to be a sport or a manipulated entertainment series but don't attempt to do both.
 
Hey, Skoal, who is scripted to win this week at Indy? I need to know so I can get my bets down.
 
R Clarence said:
Whinin' over the radio.

Today's equivalent of rippin' off a hunk(s) of paddin' 'n tossin' it out the window.
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Would you not agree that it puts the sanctioning body in a very difficult position (insurance wise) when they refuse to act on these reports .
 
ted@economy said:
Would you not agree that it puts the sanctioning body in a very difficult position (insurance wise) when they refuse to act on these reports .
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Nascar already knowingly sets race conditions that will lead to the cars crashing.

And reports of what? A piece of plastic? Pfffftttt....
 
I don't mind debris cautions if there is clearly something sharp sitting on the racing groove. What really boils my blood are idiotic cautions for balloons in the grandstands, water bottles in the grass, and phantom cautions that the tv broadcast never shows. Or even a car at the back of the pack spinning without hitting anything and the caution being immediately thrown.
 
They really dont affect my viewing experience all that much, I use them to do a variety of things so I am not missing the racing. But that does not meant that I like fake entertainment cautions, no.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'd like to modify my previous statement. I resent debris cautions for water bottles. There's no excuse for not having the bottles labeled by car number, and holding the offending driver for as many laps as the resulting caution lasts.
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But what keeps the grassy knoll dude from throwing out labeled planted bottles to falsely incriminate an innocent pollution free driver?
In many cases a nascar operative, directed to take down an undesirable (cough *shoe bandit* cough, cough).

OMG if they had had this rule 20 years ago, we would have more of the 'they sheeted Mark Martin out of a win' threads.

Personallies, I think DNA testing of all caution bait bottles is the way to go.
 
How do debris cautions affect your viewing experience? They seem to be perfectly "timed" the last few years--- if you know what I mean
 
For debris cautions, slow the field, pick it up and have a single file restart, all with the pits closed.

If the drivers know this is how it will go down, they will stop the crying so they can pit. OK maybe not Harvick. :D
 
I've not seen fact-based analysis to back it up, but it seems to me that 2016 is having much fewer cautions with questionable debris, especially late in the races. I feel like that is happening, and I feel like it is a good thing.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I've not seen fact-based analysis to back it up, but it seems to me that 2016 is having much fewer cautions with questionable debris, especially late in the races. I feel like that is happening, and I feel like it is a good thing.
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I agree. Fake debris cautions are like UFOs . Everyone is pretty sure they're likely there but very few of us have actually seen one. Even fewer can predict when the next one will occur.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I've not seen fact-based analysis to back it up, but it seems to me that 2016 is having much fewer cautions with questionable debris, especially late in the races. I feel like that is happening, and I feel like it is a good thing.
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How many times do you have to strip a win away from a deserving car to make it excusable.
Once is enough to really turn me off and they do it a few times a year.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Hey, Skoal, who is scripted to win this week at Indy? I need to know so I can get my bets down.
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I have never thought Nascar scripted a race where a certain driver wins. What led you to the conclusion that I felt that way?

LewTheShoe said:
I've not seen fact-based analysis to back it up, but it seems to me that 2016 is having much fewer cautions with questionable debris, especially late in the races. I feel like that is happening, and I feel like it is a good thing.
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I agree and that held true especially in the first 3-4 races of the year but we are seeing the level of incidences of questionable/bogus caution rise as the season goes on. I wish they could just race like the did at Atlanta this year as that race was a dandy.

ted@economy said:
I agree. Fake debris cautions are like UFOs . Everyone is pretty sure they're likely there but very few of us have actually seen one. Even fewer can predict when the next one will occur.
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I can't prove things like a woman's intuition but I have seen it in action enough times to know there has to be something to it. I cannot prove Nascar throws bogus cautions but I know drivers like BKez and Dale Jr do and from what my eyes see there is definitely something to it. Given the crazy things Nascar has done over the years I am not sure why using the yellow to manage a race seems far fetched to some.
 
rocket dawg said:
They cant run around on a race track that has a water bottle on it, but they can run around with 1 lug nut missing on all 4 corners.
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Maybe for safety's sake they should black flag every driver who radios in that he has a vibration or something else wrong with the car. Surely that sort of thing could be far more dangerous than a water bottle on track.
 
...or "wreckin' loose."

Get 'em off the track. There are liability insurance considerations........
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I think the overwhelming majority of Nascar watchers believe wholeheartedly that they use the caution flag periodically to manage races. Even if Nascar was not complicit they still have a huge problem as the perception is they throw phony cautions. Nascar has one foot in the sporting world and another in the WWE world and trying to live in both worlds is unworkable. Either choose to be a sport or a manipulated entertainment series but don't attempt to do both.
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This is the real problem.

Perception is killing the legitimacy of their races, and by extension the championship.

Do I believe that they are trying to get a specific person to win? No.

Do I believe that they take every chance they get to bunch up the field?

Hard not to say yes.

This perception is actually a very big problem for Nascar that they need to address.
 
TwoZero said:
This is the real problem.

Perception is killing the legitimacy of their races, and by extension the championship.

Do I believe that they are trying to get a specific person to win? No.

Do I believe that they take every chance they get to bunch up the field?

Hard not to say yes.

This perception is actually a very big problem for Nascar that they need to address.
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Brian France could be one of the sharpest leaders in the world but the perception is that he is an idiot only in place because of his last name. Nascar may be very consistent in its rules and rulings but the perception is they don't know what they are doing half the time. Nascar may care greatly for the legacy fans but the perception is they don't give a hoot. The list goes on and on but Nascar suffers from all sorts of perception problems like hockey did in the US 10 years ago. Hockey has been able to change the way it is perceived little by little year by year but Nascar seems to bumble around and lose people from its fan base each year. IDK what can be done.
 
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