How to fix Nascar

Go Panthers

Go Panthers

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Ok guys, we've all seen the empty seats at the races this year, and now SMI comes out with their report about ticket sales.

What are your ideas of fixing nascar?

The first thing id do is scrap the COT and go back to something more similar to a stock car. The cars looking nothing like what the normal person drives.

Id also put more short tracks on the schedule, cookie cutter tracks are boring.

If im an owner, id start looking at the local tracks in the Southeast trying to pull drivers from there, the sport desperately needs drivers the fans can relate to.

Your thoughts?
 
If it's ***** in the seats they want then stop trying to empty a fans wallet everytime they attend a race.

That's one thing, anyway.
 
Go Panthers said:
Ok guys, we've all seen the empty seats at the races this year, and now SMI comes out with their report about ticket sales.

What are your ideas of fixing nascar?

The first thing id do is scrap the COT and go back to something more similar to a stock car. The cars looking nothing like what the normal person drives.

Id also put more short tracks on the schedule, cookie cutter tracks are boring.

If im an owner, id start looking at the local tracks in the Southeast trying to pull drivers from there, the sport desperately needs drivers the fans can relate to.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Agree on your COT thoughts but would take it further: Return to stock engines utilizing only performance equipment offered as optional equipment by the manufacturers, and such equipment deemed necessary for safety purposes.

Also agree on the short tracks proposal.

I would also shorten the races. Make all races, with certain exceptions, on tracks of 1 mile or longer be measured in kilometers and not miles. For example the recent event at Pocono would have remained the Pennsylvania 500 but it would have run only 125 laps ( a tad over 311 miles). They already do this at Phoenix. 500 mile racing were OK in the 50's and 60's because the endurance factor related to the stock cars. Today the long races are just meaningless and result in interesting starts and finishes with hours of boredom in between.

Keep certain races at the advertised mileage distance for tradition's sake (Daytona 500, World 600, Southern 500 at Darlington -oops! NA__AR's already shot that one in the butt, tradition-wise, haven't they?), but shorten the rest. The trucks run relatively short races and look at the excitement they generate.

My last suggestion would be to, somehow, generate a philosophy in the NASCAR administration, of competition for competition's sake and NOT for entertainment's sake. The quality of a race is NOT determined by number of lead changes, whether certain teams or drivers are actually in the race, or how many cars finish on the lead lap. It is determined by the racing during the whole of the race.

Rightly or wrongly, those are my initial suggestions.
 
Go Panthers said:
What are your ideas of fixing nascar?

The first thing id do is scrap the COT and go back to something more similar to a stock car. The cars looking nothing like what the normal person drives.

Id also put more short tracks on the schedule, cookie cutter tracks are boring.

If im an owner, id start looking at the local tracks in the Southeast trying to pull drivers from there, the sport desperately needs drivers the fans can relate to.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I don't have a clue what they need to do to fix the sport. I guess it all depends on what you think is wrong and needs fixing.

Many people don't seem to like the COT. Personally, the COT doesn't bother me. The fact that it is a much safer car is huge IMO. I hate to think of the outcome last weekend @ Pocono in anything other than that COT for ES. There are probably changes that they can make to the car to make it more appealing yet still maintain it's safety. I think that's happening right now with the implementation of the COT to the Nationwide Series. Basically the same car, different skin. I'm waiting for them to move that to the CUP Series.

I too hate those 1.5, cookie cutter tracks. While the drivers/announcers insist that there are subtle differences between all of those like tracks, they all seem to produce the same type of race IMO. I'd like to see more short tracks of some type but I don't see any of these owners taking the bulldozer to their current facilities any time soon. And as long as attendance is down it doesn't look like a wise investment to build a new track or even invest in restructuring an existing one.

A driver that we could relate to? Sounds like the good ol' days. It's a different world today. Once you load one of those southeast drivers into that multimillion dollar organizations Cup seat, he/she no longer becomes anyone that I could relate to.
 
Go Panthers said:
Ok guys, we've all seen the empty seats at the races this year, and now SMI comes out with their report about ticket sales.

What are your ideas of fixing nascar?

The first thing id do is scrap the COT and go back to something more similar to a stock car. The cars looking nothing like what the normal person drives.

Id also put more short tracks on the schedule, cookie cutter tracks are boring.

If im an owner, id start looking at the local tracks in the Southeast trying to pull drivers from there, the sport desperately needs drivers the fans can relate to.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Well the good thing about the COT is how safe it is so I don't think it will go away any time soon. As far as racing cars that look more like stock cars as far as I can see the Camry, Impala, and the Taurus all look like the same car these days they look more like the COT. What stock cars would you watch race more is the question and are they represented in NASCAR today?

What are the 2 most popular races in NASCAR? Other than the Daytona 500 the 2 most popular races are the All Star race and the Shootout. What do these 2 races have in common? No points, all out racing the entire race. NASCAR needs to figure out how to get this kind racing every race. When they figure this out then NASCAR will become more popular again. I look at other major sports and I see a playoff system that leads to the championship at the end of the season. JMO but I don't see "the case" as a playoff system. I also don't see why if you make "the case" why there still is 43 cars in the field? I believe in some kind of an elimination to the championship and would like to see one in NASCAR.
 
I have read a couple of very good statements as to "How safe" this new race car is. I have to agree that the car today is much safer than some of the old ones, BUT...

Just what safety measures incorporated in the new car could NOT have been also adapted into any of the previous cars? Why did they have to come up with a entirely new car to call it a safer car?

I'm sorry but I just don't buy the fact that this new car is inherently safer than any of the cars NA__AR has run could ever have been. I think that this is the one single positive that NA__AR can hang its hat on, IRT the new car, and it's talking up the safety angle for all its worth.

If someone could enlighten me on the reason why this new car, alone, is safer than any previous car could have ever hoped to be, incorporating the same safety measures, I would appreciate it.
 
John Galt said:
I have read a couple of very good statements as to "How safe" this new race car is. I have to agree that the car today is much safer than some of the old ones, BUT...

Just what safety measures incorporated in the new car could NOT have been also adapted into any of the previous cars? Why did they have to come up with a entirely new car to call it a safer car?

I'm sorry but I just don't buy the fact that this new car is inherently safer than any of the cars NA__AR has run could ever have been. I think that this is the one single positive that NA__AR can hang its hat on, IRT the new car, and it's talking up the safety angle for all its worth.

If someone could enlighten me on the reason why this new car, alone, is safer than any previous car could have ever hoped to be, incorporating the same safety measures, I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...

I would think much of the safety improvements could be moved over to a new car, I think the COT was really created to "level the playing field". As we can see, it hasnt done that.

IMO the COT is probably the biggest mistake Nascar has ever made, I do love the safety of it, but surely those aspects could be moved into a "stock" car.
 
Shorten the season -- end the season on Labor Day Weekend at Atlanta. NASCAR will NEVER compete with the NFL -- most of the damage done to the sport has been a result of NASCAR trying to compete with the NFL. Aside from that, the season is just too long.
 
Go Panthers said:
,,,,,, I think the COT was really created to "level the playing field". As we can see, it hasnt done that.
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QFT!!! What ever happened to "run what ya brung"? Get beat, go back and work harder on your car. But then NA$CAR allowed a owner 2 entries, then 3etc. Enter the mega teams with more money and resources than god. The 'little guy' doesn't stand a chance.


Then the squabling over drag/downforce numbers and Na$car makes concessions to the complaining party[roush mostly] to level the playing field.
I remember Dodges, Plymouths, Fords, Mercs, Chevys,Olds,Buicks and Pontiacs all running together,,,,and nobody whined to Na$car that the other cars were better, they needed a break.

Na$car is going to price themselves out of business. Not with their ticket prices, 6 buck beer or 8 buck burgers but by the amount of sponsor dollars the teams now require to run up front. Even Dupont is cutting back.
 
Fix NASCAR

Only race in:

North Carolina
South Carolina
Georgia
Flordia
Alabama
Virgina
Tennessee
 
Go Panthers said:
I would think much of the safety improvements could be moved over to a new car, I think the COT was really created to "level the playing field". As we can see, it hasnt done that.

IMO the COT is probably the biggest mistake Nascar has ever made, I do love the safety of it, but surely those aspects could be moved into a "stock" car.
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It seems that we are pretty much in agreement about the new car and safety?

I tend to think of the new race car as NA__AR's "New Coca-Cola." Anyone who can remember 1985 remember what a great hit that one was.
 
Cut each track back to 1 race per year.Plus the All-Star race.Make the cars look like Stock Cars again and get rid of Brian France.
 
Shorten some races

Shorten season

More road courses, at least add one in the chase

Bring back the old car and put in the safety measure of the COT. The brick on wheels isn’t working except for being pretty safe, something about the car is not making it as competitive as it was promised. At least do something about the god awful splitter. How many tires has that thing cut on another car since it came into play?

Fuel injection can't get here soon enough, more manufacturers would liven it up I think.

More points for the winner

If two drivers have a problem and get in each other face after some on track differences, let them duke it out after the race, that would boost ratings like nobodies business. At lleast there is less of a chance of one guy getting killed by payback on the track, even though I love that stuff.


For two weeks out of the year fine anyone who even mention Dale Jrs name or car number on TV unless he is leading the race or involved in a crash. Same with Danica when she is racing.
 
I for one couldn't care less about foolsball. No competition from for me except racing.

I do find it very interesting when change is introduced into my sport to make it better, those people that claim to be fans whine and complain.

Rant off!
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Why? How can you possibly call them the best drivers in racing if they don't have a single dirt track race?
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I never called them the best drivers in racing. Anyway, those big stupid cars would be a mess on dirt, it would be a demolishion derby unless your talking about half the field or something.


Now if your talking about having one in the chase just for the chase drivers or having the all star race on dirt, that would be interesting.


What would really help I think would be to bring back Rockinham and North Wilkesboro. I would love to see that, wasn't a fan when they were around.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Shorten the season -- end the season on Labor Day Weekend at Atlanta. NASCAR will NEVER compete with the NFL -- most of the damage done to the sport has been a result of NASCAR trying to compete with the NFL. Aside from that, the season is just too long.
Click to expand...

An add on to that, every current track gets one race and the season could be over by the time football rolls around.
 
How I would fix NASCAR:

1) Adopt Heat races like the local tracks do to qualify for the Main.
2) No Main Feature longer than 250 miles.
3) No Lucky Dog
4) No Waive around
5) Championship is determined by most wins. If it's a tie, then average finish.
 
Nascar is just fine the way it is. Some "fans" need changin.
 
Some of the changes you guys suggested are just a little "out there", some make some sense. I have no problem with new car, with one exception, make it so you can tell the difference between the makes. Like the new car in NNS, at least you can tell the difference between the Charger and the Mustang. I agree shorten some of the races......Pocono, Indy, some of the other tracks Martinsville, ect. I'd get rid of the Chase ...completely, put more emphasis on finishing in the top 10. More points awarded for positions 1-10 as compared to the rest, no points from 35 on back. Get rid of the stupid Allstar race, no off weekends, that way the season would finish up in October.
 
chromehorn said:
I never called them the best drivers in racing. Anyway, those big stupid cars would be a mess on dirt, it would be a demolishion derby unless your talking about half the field or something.
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ARCA does it, twice a year with full fields, and the races are actually pretty clean.
 
1. Jimmie Johnson, I give credit to his talent because he has won 4 strait titles but the same guy winning constantly makes it boring and predictable

2. Lack of excitment and commitment from the broadcasts. Tnt seems to care about Nascar and I like what they d but Espn and Fox seem to just throw it in where ever it fits. They own the rights to, to many sports.

3. Nationwide Series, it has become a joke. The series used to be about developing young drivers now half the guys in there are cup drivers. That will not showcase the young drivers and all it does is ensure the cup drivers get max tv time.

4. BS Cautions. It has become blatently obvious that when ever theres about 15 or 20 laps to go and there going to try a mysteyr caution to bunch the field up at the end. They also seem to do it when a Hendrick driver begins to struggel coinsidence?

5. Car of tommarow, yes its safe and all but the actual racing has disappeared.

6. Ruining good tracks, Bristol had two of the best races of the year. Every race was very exciting now that they repaved it is garbage. The restrictor plate racing, Talladega this spring was one of the best races i seen there in a few years. But for what ever reason every season they have to change the restirctor plate packages.

7. To many 1.5 tracks. It is pretty obvious that fans enjoy short tracks, restrictor plate, and even road course racing. We need less 1.5 tracks and more of those.

8. The chase, the first couple years it was around it was exciting and new now it is boring because the #48 has figured it out so well they cant lose.

9. Change the races in the chase. Instead of the same 10 races Johnson prepares for every season mix it up. Throw a road course in there if you have to. And change the 10 races around every year so this doesnt happen again.
 
wilson89 said:
1. Jimmie Johnson, I give credit to his talent because he has won 4 strait titles but the same guy winning constantly makes it boring and predictable

2. Lack of excitment and commitment from the broadcasts. Tnt seems to care about Nascar and I like what they d but Espn and Fox seem to just throw it in where ever it fits. They own the rights to, to many sports.

3. Nationwide Series, it has become a joke. The series used to be about developing young drivers now half the guys in there are cup drivers. That will not showcase the young drivers and all it does is ensure the cup drivers get max tv time.

4. BS Cautions. It has become blatently obvious that when ever theres about 15 or 20 laps to go and there going to try a mysteyr caution to bunch the field up at the end. They also seem to do it when a Hendrick driver begins to struggel coinsidence?

5. Car of tommarow, yes its safe and all but the actual racing has disappeared.

6. Ruining good tracks, Bristol had two of the best races of the year. Every race was very exciting now that they repaved it is garbage. The restrictor plate racing, Talladega this spring was one of the best races i seen there in a few years. But for what ever reason every season they have to change the restirctor plate packages.

7. To many 1.5 tracks. It is pretty obvious that fans enjoy short tracks, restrictor plate, and even road course racing. We need less 1.5 tracks and more of those.

8. The chase, the first couple years it was around it was exciting and new now it is boring because the #48 has figured it out so well they cant lose.

9. Change the races in the chase. Instead of the same 10 races Johnson prepares for every season mix it up. Throw a road course in there if you have to. And change the 10 races around every year so this doesnt happen again.
Click to expand...

I prefer a 36 race Chase with every driver who qualifies for a Cup race being in it. (In other words, the old points system)
 
I can't wait for Danica to get her money-grubbing claws into NASCAR. You fellas think it's bad with Junior just WAIT for her arrival. It will be all Danica all the time. I suspect the fans are not going to take the 24/7 coverage of her well at all and will be leaving in droves. If you are truly worried about NASCAR the first thing I would do is prevent her from racing - ever.

The other thing I would do is lower those awful ticket prices. Do you know how many times I can go to my local dirt track for that money? Probably 6 or 7 times. Frankly, my entertainment to dollar ratio at that dirt track is so high I can't justify to myself wanting to endure the 2 hour drive and 4 hour wait to get out of the parking lot at Chicagoland to watch cup cars.

The COT is a joke. I seem to remember ages ago that NASCAR used to say, "What won on Sunday, sells on Monday." There is genius in that statement and there ought to be a return to that philosophy. For the life of me I cannot understand why they need the COT to level the playing field. Oodles of other series' (Rolex, ALMS, etc) have figured out how to make varying body styles competitive why can't NASCAR?
 
All of you who want the "good ole' days" back, go look at the history books. Back then, races were decided by miles and laps, not car-lengths and seconds. The racing wasn't better, it just wasn't.

I'm so sick of hearing this "good ole days of NASCAR" crap.
 
And the racing wasn't better with the old car either.

As far as Jimmie's dominance -- I seem to remember a guy named Jeff Gordon winning every race and pulling championships out of his ass.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
All of you who want the "good ole' days" back, go look at the history books. Back then, races were decided by miles and laps, not car-lengths and seconds. The racing wasn't better, it just wasn't.

I'm so sick of hearing this "good ole days of NASCAR" crap.
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Amen to that.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
All of you who want the "good ole' days" back, go look at the history books. Back then, races were decided by miles and laps, not car-lengths and seconds. The racing wasn't better, it just wasn't.

I'm so sick of hearing this "good ole days of NASCAR" crap.
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I don't have to look at the history books, Andy. I remember those days. I was there. You're right, some races were close but most weren't and some were absolute blowouts. What a lot of people just don't seem to get us that the finish does not a good race make.

The drivers who had the cars top do it drove to win. Those who didn't have winning cars drove to get the best finish they could. Junior Johnson had a typical philosophy: "I always drove to win the race and just figured the championship would take care of itself.

There was actual racing throughout the entire event, not just a bunch of prima donas motoring around trying to have "A good points day." If a caution was thrown you can bet that there was a car on the track pointed the way it shouldn't be pointing or some debris big enough to be seen by the human eye.

The cars had a stock appearance and the people who followed the sport loved their cars and could relate what they were driving to what they saw on the track.

If one of the marquee drivers screwed up during qualification and didn't make the show, guess what. They still had a race! There was none of this driver/sponsor welfare system they have today which provides a safety net for the privileged 35.

They didn't have a phony-baloney "Lucky Dawg." If someone went a lap down, it was because someone screwed up and the driver had to EARN his lap back, NOT be given it.

Motor sports knew that it had nothing in common with Stick&Ball sports and any idea of some media driven stick&ball-type playoff would have been laughed off the track.

And, most importantly, when a race fan left a race he/she didn't have the feeling that they had just witnessed some scripted, manipulated, high speed parade masquerading as a sporting event. Rather they felt they had seen a stock car race.

I find it ironic that NASCAR survived pretty well from 1949 to 1971, when RJR got involved. Then, for better or worse, it actually grew in popularity (wuth the help of ABC's Wide World of Sports and later a big TV contract and Dale's unfortunate death. So NASCAR actually flourished for over 50 years, through multiple economic crisis. But, since Brian France has taken the helm (actually since Bill Jr.'s later years but that's another complete can of worms) the fans are leaving like rats off a sinking ship. I wonder why that is. Because this new NA__AR is so darn good?

Like you I get sick of things. In my case it's people who embrace this "New, improved, 'Racertainment'" version of stock car racing. and trying to tell us how great it is. I ain't buying it and know what? Lots of others aren't either. But, I'll deal with it. Maybe you can do the same?
 
I think a lot of this has to do with the amount of information we now have via TV and the internet. We can listen to the drivers on the radio through the entire race. We have TV playing crew chiefs transmission about the pit stops.

Years ago we were lucky to have a short clip on the wide world of sports. I waited at the mailbox for my Nascar news to show up.

Despite the changes I have seen over the last forty years I am still a diehard and love the dang sport.
 
John Galt said:
The drivers who had the cars top do it drove to win. Those who didn't have winning cars drove to get the best finish they could. Junior Johnson had a typical philosophy: "I always drove to win the race and just figured the championship would take care of itself.
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That's the feeling I've always had. When the phrase "points racing" was becoming prominent, I sort of over simplified it. I always thought "does winning the race not award the most points?" Well sure it does, but why bother when 12th place will do the job? I'd think people could see why many of us aren't amazed by the determination of the guy trying to protect that top 15 finish.

John Galt said:
The cars had a stock appearance and the people who followed the sport loved their cars and could relate what they were driving to what they saw on the track.
Click to expand...

Some of the best looking race cars in my opinion were NASCAR's Ford Galaxies of the 60s and the Monte Carlos of the 80s. Nowadays, even with some very nice looking street models and pressure from the manufacturers, we still can't get something on the track that looks like a vehicle I've seen before.

John Galt said:
If one of the marquee drivers screwed up during qualification and didn't make the show, guess what. They still had a race! There was none of this driver/sponsor welfare system they have today which provides a safety net for the privileged 35.
Click to expand...

One of the worst of Brian's "improvements" to the sport. All to protect the big money sponsors. David Pearson and the Wood Brothers didn't even bother showing up for half the races in the 70s. Could you imagine the outrage if Rick Hendrick decided he wasn't going to run the 48 at the Glen this weekend?

John Galt said:
They didn't have a phony-baloney "Lucky Dawg." If someone went a lap down, it was because someone screwed up and the driver had to EARN his lap back, NOT be given it.
Click to expand...

I think it was Newman a few years ago who won after receiving a free pass or two? No lucky dog winner will ever top Bill Elliot making up two laps under green at Talladega and winning.

I'm guilty of talking about the past seemingly non-stop, but the issue really doesn't even go that deep. Personally, I just don't care at all for Brian France's ideas for "advancement." I thoroughly enjoyed NASCAR every week from the late 60s all the way to 2003. I'll even say that, Dale's death aside, 2001 was one of the greatest seasons of the modern era, and far removed from my personal "golden years" of fanhood. I don't think it's a coincidence that some sort of switch flipped for me around 2003 (when our Mr. France took over). Nobody can blame him for wanting to take the sport to bigger places, but he's gotten himself in over his head trying to satisfy people who aren't going to stick around. NASCAR will be much easier to "fix" if he ever opens his eyes to the people who really want to stay, but are finding it harder to.

But, to each his own.
 
You're not going to see a big increase in the attendance at NASCAR 'Cup races until the economy improves to the point where families can put food on the table and a roof over their heads before they can afford luxuries like spending the money to take in a race.
 
1. Get rid of the chase. Want to win the championship, then win the most races.
2. Do away with the top 35. Make every driver qualify for every race. If Dale Jr or Jimmie don't make the race, oh well. There will still be 43 drivers on the track. Maybe they'd make it the next week.
3. If they have to keep the lucky dog, which they shouldn't, make it so no driver can get it more than once per race.
4. If qualifying gets rained out, set the starting order by the previous weeks finish.
5. For the Nationwide, limit the amount of cup drivers in each race.
6. Make all drivers watch the truck series and learn how exciting it can be to the fans when they actually race.
 
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