Human or mechanical acceleration?

J

John Barnett

Guest
I had an idea the other day and I am curious if the accelerator has to be controlled by Human or can it be mechanically controlled. Here's my thought. Since spinning wheels dont move you forward, I had an idea to help prevent this and it would involve something to sorts of using a battery operated drill, and a screw in sorts with "Fine" threads transitioning to "coarse" then to "Elongated" threads pushing the gas pedal or a part in the acceleration chain. Now I am quite sure there has to be a safety precaution for when the unwanted happens and that would take some ingenuity to incorporate into this add-on. Anyway just my thinking, I have always enjoyed the NHRA sport.
 
I was hoping someone could explain wether or not this is legal in racing, so when the driver mashes his foot to the floor it doesnt accelerate all at once, getting the car to jump but also stay stuck to the pavement would pretty awesome.
 
You are describing traction control. There are many ways to do it, but in the NHRA it's illegal. The clutch is really the only difference between a win, and a loss. Right now some teams run six disks, and others are running five. There is more adjustments with six disks, but some say those adjustments are too sensitive, and have went back to five. It comes down to how much power the track can hold at any given time. Setting the clutch is where most races are won now. If they all accelerated perfectly, the race would always be won at the tree.
 
Yogisd1 said:
You are describing traction control. There are many ways to do it, but in the NHRA it's illegal. The clutch is really the only difference between a win, and a loss. Right now some teams run six disks, and others are running five. There is more adjustments with six disks, but some say those adjustments are too sensitive, and have went back to five. It comes down to how much power the track can hold at any given time. Setting the clutch is where most races are won now. If they all accelerated perfectly, the race would always be won at the tree.
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Traction control is legal....kinda.

Thanks for the page @Johali

@John Barnett Let me give you a short class on what is, and is not, legal.

What IS NOT legal:
Using wheel speed to actively manipulate ANYTHING on the vehicle.

What IS legal:
Knowing you're on a ****** track like we were this weekend in oklahoma city, and having plan A, plan B, and plan C for getting down the slip and slide.

Essentially, you know approximately where the tire is going to spin, based on looking at the track as well as the on board data recorder. Accordingly, you know where to yank a bunch of power out.

Our "normal" timing control curve ramps from 29 degrees at 0.01 seconds to 25 degrees at 0.40, stays at 25 degrees until 0.80 seconds, then ramps back to 29 degrees around 1 second. This while running a 47:52 pulley ratio for about 27 pounds of boost.

This weekend after smoking the tires twice in the same run, we went to a 48:52 pulley ratio for about 25 pounds of boost, reduced main timing to 27 degrees, and changed the timing curve to ramp from 27 degrees at 0.05 to 21 degrees at 0.25, stay at 21 degrees until 1.10 seconds, then ramp back to 27 degrees at 1.80 seconds.

We were still slipping the tire pretty hard, but not enough to cause detrimental issues.

The other option, which I will be using on my truck, is to use an air throttle system. This uses a pressurized cylinder between the throttle cable and induction system, allowing the pedal to stay wide open, but the actual throttle to not be wide open. Valves control how quickly the air leaves and re-enters the solenoid, which allows the throttle to apply progressively based on a defined time. Some people have the throttle ramp as slow as 3/4 second.
 
Magnethead said:
Traction control is legal....kinda.

Thanks for the page @Johali

@John Barnett Let me give you a short class on what is, and is not, legal.

What IS NOT legal:
Using wheel speed to actively manipulate ANYTHING on the vehicle.

What IS legal:
Knowing you're on a ****** track like we were this weekend in oklahoma city, and having plan A, plan B, and plan C for getting down the slip and slide.

Essentially, you know approximately where the tire is going to spin, based on looking at the track as well as the on board data recorder. Accordingly, you know where to yank a bunch of power out.

Our "normal" timing control curve ramps from 29 degrees at 0.01 seconds to 25 degrees at 0.40, stays at 25 degrees until 0.80 seconds, then ramps back to 29 degrees around 1 second. This while running a 47:52 pulley ratio for about 27 pounds of boost.

This weekend after smoking the tires twice in the same run, we went to a 48:52 pulley ratio for about 25 pounds of boost, reduced main timing to 27 degrees, and changed the timing curve to ramp from 27 degrees at 0.05 to 21 degrees at 0.25, stay at 21 degrees until 1.10 seconds, then ramp back to 27 degrees at 1.80 seconds.

We were still slipping the tire pretty hard, but not enough to cause detrimental issues.

The other option, which I will be using on my truck, is to use an air throttle system. This uses a pressurized cylinder between the throttle cable and induction system, allowing the pedal to stay wide open, but the actual throttle to not be wide open. Valves control how quickly the air leaves and re-enters the solenoid, which allows the throttle to apply progressively based on a defined time. Some people have the throttle ramp as slow as 3/4 second.
Click to expand...

Your last paragraph was pretty much what I was looking for, people are introducing ways of controlling the "pedal-to-metal" Thanks for the response.
 
John Barnett said:
Your last paragraph was pretty much what I was looking for, people are introducing ways of controlling the "pedal-to-metal" Thanks for the response.
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They've done it for years in Stuper Street, Super Gas, and Super Comp to hit the 10.90, 9.90, 8.90 indexes respectively using a faster car. The throttle stop just knocks the engine back to part throttle for an amount of time programmed into the timer. But more recently, Starting Line Enhancers are being used to control the throttle at the launch as well.

SLE is good for a stock/poor suspension vehicle, or especially for clutch cars [that can't use a slide valve clutch management system]. For backhalf/chassis car, knocking a few degrees of timing out can make a big difference.
 
John Barnett said:
I had an idea the other day and I am curious if the accelerator has to be controlled by Human or can it be mechanically controlled. Here's my thought. Since spinning wheels dont move you forward, I had an idea to help prevent this and it would involve something to sorts of using a battery operated drill, and a screw in sorts with "Fine" threads transitioning to "coarse" then to "Elongated" threads pushing the gas pedal or a part in the acceleration chain. Now I am quite sure there has to be a safety precaution for when the unwanted happens and that would take some ingenuity to incorporate into this add-on. Anyway just my thinking, I have always enjoyed the NHRA sport.
Click to expand...


Electronic traction control is used on Moto-Gp bikes
 
Yogisd1 said:
Pardon my stupidity, I thought we were talking about top fuel, and funny cars. My mistake.
Click to expand...
TF and FC also use an air throttle like we do. It is part of the Electromotion safety system, which throws both chutes, shuts off the fuel, kills the spark, and shuts the throttle blades regardless of pedal position.
 
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