If Martin losses by less then 25 points...

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pettyfan4life

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and the appeal is not givin will he be the champion in your eyes
 
but Nascar handed out them springs you would think that Nascar would check them first and to top it off I dont really like both drivers but I dont hate them either
 
Let me answer in another way.

(oooh I love to dance the little sidestep)

Mark Martin will always be a champion in my eyes.

(take a swing around the wide step)

Some drivers just don't need a trophy to be a champ.;)
 
Roush Racing needs to realize that they made a mistake, not NASCAR. Rules are rules and for once they were consistant. Now they are being questioned for it.
 
But if he had not been screwed out of that 25 points he would of won the thing with no problem
 
Originally posted by pettyfan4life
But if he had not been screwed out of that 25 points he would of won the thing with no problem
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Not really. He will still be behind Stewart in the points even with the 25 points.
 
ill hate it for mark, i think he deserves the championship, but to me, the man with the most points is the champion, mark did have an illegal spring
 
Originally posted by HardScrabble
Let me answer in another way.

(oooh I love to dance the little sidestep)  

Mark Martin will always be a champion in my eyes.

(take a swing around the wide step)

Some drivers just don't need a trophy to be a champ.;)
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I agree,He may be thought of more than some past champs with the status he has held in Nascar the last 10 yrs.;) If you don't win more than 2 in a row,You ain't chit in the eyes of most fans. ;)
 
No way. Broke the rules get caught you pay the price. Regardless of how long you've been in NASCAR and how many times you've finished second in the championship, he deserves 2nd for using illegal parts.
 
Then I think bye dadgum it'll have been a close championship. Yeppers, that's it!
 
In my opinion Mark Martin is the best driver in Winston Cup right now. Might not be The Champ this year but he will forever be the best. At least untill somebody better comes along.
 
I think Martin is a great driver, unfortunately, his "team" has cost him these points on both occasions. Rules are rules, and when you break them you have to pay the consequences. That doesn't change the fact that he is a great driver.
 
In any game you play by the rules. Maybe no fault of his own but he got caught. He deserves a championship, But rules are rules.
 
well, anytime i or the people i am affilliated with break the rules, we all gotta pay the price.
The 17 laws of teamwork, John Maxwell
Law #4, The Law of the Weakest Link;)
 
Tony Stewart would be the champion.

Pettyfan would you think the same way if the roles were reversed? Would you think the same thing if Kyle was first instead of Tony?
 
Personally, I think nascar would be foolish not to give the team back it's points but should they not, that's racin nascar style.
 
moph I would because if he got screwed out of 25 points because on the part that nascars hands out was messed up I would think he woiuld deserve the 25 points back
 
NASCAR does not hand out the springs. Roush ordered them from an approved manufacturer and decided not to inspect the thing before it was placed on the car.

A shame, but rules are rules. Play the game.
 
It would be better for Roush Racing just to move on. They don't need this whole deal in the back of their minds when they are trying to win this championship. They are going to focus on this 25 lost points (which they won't get back) when they need to focus on whats ahead.
 
As you all know by now, I am a die-hard Stewart fan. I also like Mark Martin. Has anyone thought what it would be like if Tony's team had been in the same situation as Mark's? I doubt NASCAR would even be willing to let them file an appeal. NASCAR has been consistent all year with these penalties of taking points. Had they just started it with Martin, I say give him the points back. But since others have been penalized, sock it to him. Same if it would have been the #20. If they give points back, they should give back Rusty's (which could help him maybe finish 3rd), or to Ward, who could finish in the top 25 possibly, and therefore get some money, and to Johnson, etc., etc. If they give Martin's points back this weekend, it will be like a slap in the 20, the 2, the 24, the 30, and the 22's face. Rules are rules. Stick to your guns, NASCAR, even if sometimes they are shooting blanks.
 
If you guys remember in 2000 when Biffle was Docked 100 points and lost the champoinship by 8, do u consider him the Busch champion?

As long as Nascar is consistant in handing out fines, then of course its fair and rules shal be rules
 
Just for clarity.

NASCAR has no options on "willing to let them file an appeal". It is in the procedures. Any and all teams may appeal any fine, penalty or sanction imposed on them.

If they lose the appeal to the commission, they may then further appeal to the commissioner of NASCAR.
 
Well I was told that Nascar handed out the springs to them so I dont know
 
I like both drivers, but rules are rules.. and the spring was wrong. So to answer the question
Mark is a champ even without the trophy, and Tony is(will be) one with a trophy. :)
 
Originally posted by RoyalOrange
As you all know by now, I am a die-hard Stewart fan. I also like Mark Martin.   Has anyone thought what it would be like if Tony's team had been in the same situation as Mark's?  I doubt NASCAR would even be willing to let them file an appeal.  NASCAR has been consistent all year with these penalties of taking points.  Had they just started it with Martin, I say give him the points back.  But since others have been penalized,  sock  it to him.  Same if it would have been the #20.  If they give points back, they should give back Rusty's (which could help him maybe finish 3rd), or to Ward, who could finish in the top 25 possibly, and therefore get some money, and to Johnson, etc., etc.  If they give Martin's points back this weekend, it will be like a slap in the 20, the 2, the 24, the 30, and the 22's face.  Rules are rules.  Stick to your guns, NASCAR, even if sometimes they are shooting blanks.
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Thanks RO, you said things the way I wanted to :)
 
The apeal has merit. There was no intent and no competitive edge.
 
Not all rules are in place to gaurd against competitive edge.

If I'm not mistaken, the 6 car got away with one already this year after the Coke 600. They should be happy they aren't 50 points total in fines.
 
I read somewhere ( don't remerber where ) that roush needed to at least file this appeal to use as a stepping stone towards possibly filing a lawsuit against the manufactuer of the spring. and that with out doing this wouldn't have a lot to stand on.
 
Jack is doing what any other car owner would do if he were in the same position,he is trying to protect 2nd as much as trying to win it all.;)
 
I agree rules are rules!! Even thought it was not the 6 teams fault they should have checked to make sure it was legal spring
 
I think the 6 team is mad about having the same penalty as the cars that purposly cheated.If you know anything about racing you know 1/8 of a coil has no advantage. This was the first penalty of its kind but you guys are saying this is similar to the 22's and 30's when infact they were nowhere near the same.It's nascar pulling the wool over your eyes.You all should be smarter than that.

Meanwhile in the past 2 weeks 2 more cars were found to be like this with 1/8th coil short in Busch qualifying.Did they get petalized 25 points?NO.
Problem is it is the same manufactorer as Marks.
 
I am not trying to bash no one or get anyone pissed but could the manufacture of made the springs bad since both of the ones Mark received were the same and no other drivers
were?
 
It will be decided Saturday,I would think there will still be debate no matter what is decided.If Tony is on his game the points won't make any differance.
 
Originally posted by pbunch
It will be decided Saturday,I would think there will still be debate no matter what is decided.If Tony is on his game the points won't make any differance.
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That would certainly be great for Stewart fans, but it may also be the best for everyone involved. If Mark gets his points back and wins by less than 25, or he doesn't get them back and loses by less than 25, this off season is going to be UGLY!
 
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