IndyCar Race at IMS Infield Road Course?

KevinWI

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Yep, these (awful) rumors are back again.

Robin Miller reporting that IMS / IndyCar strong considering adding an IndyCar race at the Indy infield road course either late in the season in September or even (god forbid) the first weekend in May. Owners are apparently onboard because it means less travel costs for them.

What could crap on the sanctity of 16th & Georgetown more than having the IndyCars come back to Indianapolis twice in the same year? The Indianapolis road course is not a good one. The infield track needs to be repaved anyway. MotoGP said they wouldn't come back unless it's repaved anyway.

This isn't some crap dirt oval in the middle of nowhere that hosts sprint car races every Saturday night. There should be one race a year at Indianapolis, bar none.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/miller-indy-cars-on-the-ims-road-course-is-a-bad-idea/

Throughout the years there have been some really bad ideas at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

Starting the cars single file in the pits and trying form up in 1958 led to a first-lap disaster.

The Pacer Lights were supposed to keep the drivers in position until USAC finally found out Bobby Unser was using them to gain positions.

Removing the apron at IMS took away a second groove and some of the most memorable places to pass.

Doing away with the Snake Pit helped do away with young fans and qualifying crowds.

Reserving 25 of the 33 starting spots for IRL competitors in the 1996 Indianapolis 500 effectively drove a stake in open-wheel racing.

Expanding the field in 1997 to make sure Nissan-powered cars were included in the field drained what little integrity remained.

And three qualifying attempts per car per day all but killed the spirit of Bump Day.

But the brainstorm currently being discussed at 16th & Georgetown for the 2014 schedule might just shoot to the top of list.

Long before the Boston Consulting Group passed out its wisdom on how to save IndyCar some of the car owners and a few board members were salivating over the idea of an IndyCar road course race at IMS.

Their initial thought was to open the month of May with it and lately there’s been more talk to make it the season finale.

Allow me to interject the first of many editorial comments:

A road course race at IMS with Indy cars isn’t a bad idea, it’s a terrible idea.

Whether it’s May 1st or Labor Day weekend doesn’t matter because it’s not about the date – it’s the whole mindless concept.

The Indianapolis 500, although no longer a sellout and the must see phenomena it was from 1911-95, still remains the largest, single-day sporting event anywhere.

It does partly because of tradition and habit and partly because it’s still the fastest, most exhilarating race on four wheels.

People still plan their vacations or long weekends around the Indy 500 and even the declining television ratings for Indy cars still get a spike that one day in May.

It continues to command a respectful place on the world’s entertainment map.

And it’s all a direct result of being held on the most famous OVAL track in the world.

So why in the name of Wilbur Shaw would anybody want to dilute this unique piece of history with a race 100 mph slower on a Mickey Mouse road course?

We know the majority of owners are lobbying hard because it’s a cheap date in terms of travel expenses and the powers at IMS/IndyCar evidently think it will enhance the schedule right along with the Speedway’s profile.

One owner said to me it would be better to end the season in front of 100,000 at IMS instead of 20,000 at Fontana. My response: get serious.

First off, you could charge $20 for any seat in the house and be lucky to get 40,000 to watch 225-mph Indy cars chug around the IMS road course looking like Formula Fords.

(A little history lesson: back in the ‘60s they staged road races for Indy cars at Indianapolis Raceway Park in July with Foyt, Andretti, Gurney, etc. and only drew a few thousand before the promoters pulled the plug. The message? We've tried this experiment before with MUCH bigger names and no one in the Midwest cared or bothered to show up).

You know how empty the Speedway looks for NASCAR nowadays with 100,000? An IndyCar road race would rival the MotoGP crowd (or lack thereof).

As mentioned, IMS no longer sells out the Indy 500 and recently removed 13,000 seats that sit empty every year so now they’re considering TWO races in May?

I’ve heard IMS is planning to re-configure the road course and make it more challenging or watchable, or both, but save your money boys and put in the Indy 500 purse instead.

Indy still draws a big crowd because it’s fast, it’s edgy, it’s action in every corner and it’s like nothing else in motorsports. People come to the Speedway to see speed and daring moves like Takuma Sato on the last lap. They’re not going to show up to watch mules at the Kentucky Derby (thank you Jim Murray).

Three-time winner Dario Franchitti has a perfect analogy. “It’s like deciding to play another tourney at Wimbledon in the fall and paving over the grass with concrete.”

Indy is special because it’s once a year, on the oval, in May. Tony Hulman use to say the Indy 500 was like the circus: “We only come to town once a year so don’t miss us.”

I’m afraid a lot of the people employed at IMS and IndyCar nowadays truly don’t grasp why Indy became such a special place. It was the second-toughest ticket in all of sports and it operated on a fragile formula that nobody ever messed with until The Split.

And it’s taken a long, long time to begin to restore its reputation and get people to put it back on their calendar.

So the last thing it needs is competition from within. It doesn’t need to share billing with another faceless road race on hallowed ground that nobody wants to see.

It will be a loser, financially and figuratively, but the good news is that this year’s promotional slogan of “Indy 500 or Bust” can easily be carried over to 2014. I’m leaning towards bust.
 
That's a terrible idea. I'd like to say it won't gain any traction but to hear that at least some owners are on board because it will save some money is worrying.
 
Yeah, I think this whole thing reeks of money.

IMS/IndyCar trying to add another date on the cheap.
 
I think restoring the legacy of the Indy 500 should be higher a priority than trying to throw together a race on a poorly constructed road course that will kill attendence not just for the road course event but for the 500 as well
 
Yeah, I think this whole thing reeks of money.
Yep, looks like it. This is from an article on the Boston Consulting Group's recommendations:

-- Using Indianapolis Motor Speedway more. BCG Found that of the 132 days the track was used in 2012, only 21 were considered major revenue-generating events. By using the speedway for an IndyCar race on the road course, BCG found IMS had the potential to generate a $4.3 million profit.
 
Yep, looks like it. This is from an article on the Boston Consulting Group's recommendations:

-- Using Indianapolis Motor Speedway more. BCG Found that of the 132 days the track was used in 2012, only 21 were considered major revenue-generating events. By using the speedway for an IndyCar race on the road course, BCG found IMS had the potential to generate a $4.3 million profit.

Oh lord, I forgot that awful consulting fiasco. If the beancounters had their way, they'd run a race at Indy every week and save the series the cost of traveling from venue to venue.
 
They have a road course so they should use it. How many racing events does Daytona have?
 
They have a road course so they should use it. How many racing events does Daytona have?

Indianapolis isn't Daytona. It's a special place. They had been racing at Indianapolis for 49 years before Bill France even started laying track at Daytona Beach.

The Brickyard isn't some quarter-mile oval in the middle of nowhere. They don't need Saturday night features there every weeks. There should be ONE race on Memorial Day weekend per year there.

It's Churchhill Downs, Augusta National, Wimbledon, whatever comparison you want to make. It's hallowed ground.
 
Grand-Am still runs the road course there.

MotoGP Motorcycles race there too, but they hate it. The infield track needs to be repaved and is very bumpy for superbikes and like three guys fell off their bikes and got injured last year at the event. Since they've already started racing at the Circuit of the Americas, I reckon MotoGP is gone as soon as whatever they have with Indy is up, unless IMS repaves the infield road course.
 
Unfortunately it looks like this is indeed in the cards for next year. This is from August 15:

An IndyCar road race at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway to kick off next May is seriously being considered and possibly one more double-header will be added to the schedule, but those appear to be the only major changes for 2014, according to information gathered by RACER.com. It looks like there will be 20-21 races for '14 and the season will end by Labor Day and not include any additional venues to the 2013 schedule.

Miles wouldn't speak in specifics about the schedule but RACER.com has learned the month of May will most likely open with Indy cars running on the road course used by Formula 1 from 2000 to '07. It's believed there will a data-gathering test for an Indy car on the road course next month, possibly as early as Sept. 4th. It's believed the series will use a team that is outside the championship battle to help capture data, and that a limited number of laps will be completed during the process.

http://www.racer.com/indycars-2014-schedule-takes-shape/article/307644/
 
Much better race track than some of their too narrow, too bumpy street, turned road racing circuits. It worked for formula 1 and the indy cars are much sturdier and don't sound like a mad bee with a hernia. I'll be watching if it happens.
 
rolex race at kansas infield last week was pretty good. bring it on i say.

what i never understand......why indycar race times are nearly same as nascar so often ?
that'll change w/ nbcsn i guess.
 
I watched the replay of the Kansas race..I have the channel but the guide is screwed up so I caught it by flipping around. I thought the track worked, I didn't know Kansas had a road course. I was getting really into the GT class last year, the Mustangs and the Camaros were competitive. This year they weighted them down and now it is the Ferrari which looks a foot wider and lower than anything out there, the BMW that looks like a Taxi cab compared to the Ferrari and the Porsches. I hope they let up on the stangs and the camaro's it is too lopsided.
 
I watched the replay of the Kansas race..I have the channel but the guide is screwed up so I caught it by flipping around. I thought the track worked, I didn't know Kansas had a road course. I was getting really into the GT class last year, the Mustangs and the Camaros were competitive. This year they weighted them down and now it is the Ferrari which looks a foot wider and lower than anything out there, the BMW that looks like a Taxi cab compared to the Ferrari and the Porsches. I hope they let up on the stangs and the camaro's it is too lopsided.

stangs/camaros comin back at laguna...n....lime rock.
havin pruett back in dp pack has been good viewin. hope taylor kid wins dp title tho.
 
Pruitt has that new Bimmer motor and another gear, so far Taylor has been able to hold him off, I think it was the second race with that motor. Ol man Taylor wasn't too happy about it, but they won anyway.
 
Pruitt has that new Bimmer motor and another gear, so far Taylor has been able to hold him off, I think it was the second race with that motor. Ol man Taylor wasn't too happy about it, but they won anyway.

yeah---he was "lobbyin" fer mo hp on his stuff in future. taylor kid hit his brakin marks...an launched off turns......plus good in traffic....round back markers.
pruitt seemed a little confused......why he couldn't get by.....in post race interview. ha!
 
Yeah he did didn't he. I wonder if a GM geek got a hold of Taylor's engine computer and evened it up a bit...they don't catch stuff like Nascar does.
 
maybe ? they all have their tricks.
think taylor's drivin got it done most of all....slowed on entry..... blockin pruitt....then blasted off turns.
slipped only once....an pruitt not close enuff.

lookin forward ta next 2 races.

seems only a small few on here.......likes motor racin in any form. 2 or 4 wheels.
we is an odd lot i guess ! ha! or maybe tha others is ? ha!
 
Unfortunately it looks like this is indeed in the cards for next year. This is from August 15:





http://www.racer.com/indycars-2014-schedule-takes-shape/article/307644/
Of course they would. The Indy infield is a terrible road course. I think they're trying to make every last fan turn off the series in disgust. Have fun being embarrassed when 80,000 people show up for an IndyCar race at Indy in September. I've had it up to here with this series and their self-destructive bull****.
 
Of course they would. The Indy infield is a terrible road course. I think they're trying to make every last fan turn off the series in disgust. Have fun being embarrassed when 80,000 people show up for an IndyCar race at Indy in September. I've had it up to here with this series and their self-destructive bull****.
It's always one step forward, two steps back with IndyCar. How the management continues to botch a solid on-track product is frightening.
 
The Indy infield is a terrible road course. I think they're trying to make every last fan turn off the series in disgust. Have fun being embarrassed when 80,000 people show up for an IndyCar race at Indy in September.
I watched the MotoGP race last weekend, and noticed that the bikes run on a slightly different track than the old F1/ALMS road course, or at least in the opposite direction.

BTW Kev, note that the article is about them having an Indycar road course race in May, I guess before the regular practice and qualifying for the 500. I'm not completely against IndyCar running on the road course, but to do it in May will (IMO) further dilute the tradition of what used to be the greatest spectacle in racing. I thought it was clear from their recommendations that BCG only looked at how to squeeze the maximum short term revenue from the track, and had no understanding of racing, the history of the Speedway, and the passion of its true fans, and was surprised to see that this ridiculous idea has supporters in the ranks:

"Even before the Boston Consulting Group report suggested IMS host a road race for Indy cars, several car owners had been in favor of it as a prelude to the 98th Indianapolis 500 on May 25."
 
We have to consider that the cars are going to be much slower on the road course. Aside from the fact that they're just going to be slower overall because it's a road course, they'll be running the road course aero package. They'll probably be 10-15 mph slower on the part of the course that goes on the oval. I think it'll be an embarrassment to all if they put on this slow display of road racing before the month of May. They're going to look like Cup cars coming through the superspeedway turn.

I would love to see them add another road course to the schedule, I can give them five tracks off the top of my head. This is just another attempt by the cheap wads who run the baking soda company trying to make an extra buck off the race track.
 
Most race fans can't afford to go to both, so guess which one they are not going to go to. If they want to do a road course on that date, Burke Lakefront Airport isn't that far away and would be a better choice all the way around. There is only ONE Indy race and should stay that way. If IMS needs more money they should think about charging an appropriate amount of cash to run your street car, or take a ride in a touring car with a professional driver, at speed, around the track. (Like they do at the Nurburgring.) When will these knotheads learn that to be a success you have to give fans what they want, and a road course race at Indy isn't it.
 
Visitors can take a lap around the Speedway in a large van from the museum any day of the year except Thanksgiving and Christmas for $5. It's actually a pretty cool ride, with narrated history (it was Paul Page last time I did it). They already have an Indycar Racing Experience and Petty Driving Experience at IMS, but those are pretty limited and beyond many folks' budgets. Having a pro driver give a high speed ride in a performance car would be a good way to bridge the gap and bring in a little more revenue, but it wouldn't put butts in the seats.

Having another oval race in the southern or western U.S. before May would do a better job of building interest before the 500, like they used to do in the CART days with Nazareth. Maybe Homestead, Atlanta, or Auto Club. I'd include Texas but it seems Eddie is set on having their race soon after the 500.
 
Most race fans can't afford to go to both, so guess which one they are not going to go to. If they want to do a road course on that date, Burke Lakefront Airport isn't that far away and would be a better choice all the way around. There is only ONE Indy race and should stay that way. If IMS needs more money they should think about charging an appropriate amount of cash to run your street car, or take a ride in a touring car with a professional driver, at speed, around the track. (Like they do at the Nurburgring.) When will these knotheads learn that to be a success you have to give fans what they want, and a road course race at Indy isn't it.

I think there's issues with that. As I recall, the promoter who has the rights to the Clevleand race and the rights with the city of Cleveland (owners of the airport) has some grudge against IndyCar and won't hold the race for the current series.
 
That sucks. with all that room it always made for a good race. If they need another race there are plenty of weekends to choose from. IMO I don't think the infield track or that weekend (First weekend in May) would be a good choice if your main objective is to put butts in the seats. That's the same weekend as the Kentucky Derby. Maybe we should be glad the consulting company didn't suggest that they run 500 miles on the infield track, then invert the field and run another 500 miles on the oval and call it the Indy 1000. They need to leave the month of May just as it is. It isn't called "The Greatest Spectacle in Racing" for nothing.
 
Ryan Briscoe and Graham Rahal are testing multiple configurations at IMS tomorrow.
 
Here's Robin Miller's video report for Racer with Graham and Ryan about the test, having a road course race at Indy in May, and a little follow-up on the Baltimore race.
 
Ugh, why are they having them go through the turn 1 chicane instead of going on the superspeedway turn? IndyCar can't do anything right.
 
They mentioned turning it back into the Month of May, but I read yesterday they're also considering the Saturday before the 500 and Bump Day. I'm not sure how the latter would work without lights, but I guess those will eventually be part of the Project 100 redevelopment.
 
I'm not sure that they're using the chicane in turn 1, Here's another video from IndyCar on the test; at the end it looks like Briscoe is coming off the oval turn 1 (backwards of course) onto the front straight, like F1 did.
btw, it looks like if you're on Rahal's team, smoking in the garage and pits are allowed, if it's a Blu eCiggie.

Racer's other story about the test further confuses things. I'm looking for a definitive track map or description, but this is from the article:
"Rahal and Briscoe quickly warmed to the concepts as they logged laps clockwise and counterclockwise, utilizing Turn 1 of the oval and the existing Turn 1 of the Grand Prix road course."

That, and Bobby Rahal comparing the 500 to Daytona, as far as having other events leading up to the big race. They're clearly trying their best to 'sell the soap'.
 
off topic...but i see on indycar site that nbcsn baltimore ratins up 54% over last yr.
 
Robin Miller tells us what he really thinks about Graham and Briscoe's glowing comments about the Indy infield road course test:

http://www.racer.com/robin-millers-mailbag-for-sept-11/article/311160/

(edited out irrelevant parts about Tony Kanaan/Gibbs rumors)

Q: I loved your video on RACER.com about IMS road course. I am wondering if the drivers were towing the company line about using the road course at IMS?

RM: I think Rahal and Briscoe were being good soldiers.
 
Regarding our speculation about what road course configuration they would use, RM says in his latest mailbag that what configuration the track will use hasn't been decided yet. I hope they use the Turn 1 Superspeedway turn section.
 
ARE THEY OUT OF THEIR [In violation of Sections 12-1 of the 2013 NASCAR rulebook (actions detrimental to stock car racing).] MINDS?!?!?!

http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.com/indy/izod-indycar/indycar-road-race-coming-to-ims-in-2014/

off topic...but i see on indycar site that nbcsn baltimore ratins up 54% over last yr.

And what we get to show for that is a race that won't be back on the schedule... because Baltimore's easily the most entertaining road race in America and we wouldn't want fans to be happy in IndyCar racing :rolleyes: IndyCar should've gone out of their way to find a date and make it work.
 
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I predicted they would get 80,000 people at this thing. Robin Miller seems to think that less than 40,000 will show up.

Hoosiers are good soldiers for IndyCar. At both years of Michael Andretti's revival of the Milwaukee Mile race, I've seen charter buses with Indiana plates filled with people arrive at the track for the race. But, I don't know how many are going to support this. They sure as hell won't fill the place.

Holding it in May is stupid. It's a stupid idea either way holding it on Labor Day to replace Baltimore or some other late-season date wouldn't further dirty the name of the Month of May.
 
personally........don't care how many tickets they sell......long as it's on tv. ha!
figure indycar-n-hulman folks ...plus nbc....usin this ta gin up enthusiasm fer 500. ?

works at daytona 500 !

an bring baltimore back !
 
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