Integrity And Nascar

fastfordfan said:
Integrity And Nascar In The Same Sentence Now That's Pretty Damm Funny
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Do you really think so? NASCARs three major series racecars are the most highly Teched and Scrutinized racecars worldwide. Each individual car is routinely ran thru tech twice at each race and can be depending on qualifying position race finishing position and NASCAR "RANDOM" post race tech another two times. Not to mention it's written in the rules that NASCAR can impound your racecar or just load it up on their hauler and take it away at any time!
AND then you have all your fellow competitors standing elbow to elbow with you on pit lane and in the garages, very little gets by unseen.....in fact it's normaly a little birdy that informs NASCAR of odd activities.
The MAJORITY or crewcheifs,crewmen,car owners are completely against running illegally and many crewcheif/crew contracts have wording in them amounting to if your found doing anything outside the rules it is grounds for imediate dismissal......and in the tightnight group of NASCAR once that happens say good bye to your career.

As far as drivers and what they might and might not do? I believe most adhere to the concept of "I'll Race You How You Race Me"

Of course there's a few who don't and a few that just lack the talent to keep from running into things.
 
FlFlash said:
The MAJORITY or crewcheifs,crewmen,car owners are completely against running illegally and many crewcheif/crew contracts have wording in them amounting to if your found doing anything outside the rules it is grounds for imediate dismissal......and in the tightnight group of NASCAR once that happens say good bye to your career.

.
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Yeah, look at how it affected Knaus, more than once.......:D
 
Stewart Fan said:
Really? I'd be willing to bet that if they knew they wouldn't get caught every car owner, or CC would juice the cars up.
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Thats just my point They Know they'll get caught for all the reason's I pointed out in my post. Therefore they want to run legal.
 
SST55 said:
Yeah, look at how it affected Knaus, more than once.......:D
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There are some Guys that no matter what they do wrong they more make up for it in what they do right. Knaus is one of those guys.
 
All those assholes are so honest we could throw away the rule book:XXROFL::XXROFL::XXROFL:
 
Maybe there should be a "no rules" series in the off season. That might be fun!

Give each team a COT chassis and body and let them do their own engine, trans, suspension, brakes, etc with no limitations.

Dodge HEMI, LS9 Chevys, 5.0 Liter Fords, Lexus V8s for the Toyotas, all mated up with 6-speed paddle shifting trannies...

Wild Wacky Stuff!
 
I said this yesterday. And Dave Moody had a great blog post about it last week.

In any other sport, there are consistent penalties to violating the rules. In NASCAR, when rules are broken, the teams are applauded. In the Chad Knaus situation last week, he was applauded for being innovative and playing games. In any other sport, Chad's behavior would be discouraged. And teams are always talking about pushing the envelope and looking for grey areas.

This is why NASCAR doesn't get respect from the mainstream. In every other sport, the rules are black and white. NASCAR deliberately leaves grey areas and has so many rules that can be interpreted in different ways. Take, the yellow line: A rule that has been interpreted so many different ways that it's pointless. Austin Dillon, Denny Hamlin and Dale Jr are pretty much free to drive over the line. They've never been penalized for it before.

Then there's Sunday's deal with Keselowski: Speeding in between the scoring loops. This has gone on for years with Jimmie Johnson and Kyle Busch. Now everyone else is starting to do it. Instead of pointing out that a new system should be adopted, the commentators who lend themselves as the voice of the sport applauded Keselowski's blatant cheating. The yellow line rule was set up as a safety thing, in response to numerous injuries and deaths on pit road.

Does the NFL rulebook state that you can go out of bounds in between the 10 yard line and the end zone? Does the law say you can speed in between the speed limit signs? But NASCAR tells the teams where the scoring loops are, essentially winking an eye at them and encouraging them to speed.

I can't blame the teams -- again, they're doing everything they can to find a competitive advantage. In some cases, they're blatantly cheating, but if cheating is encouraged, why would they play within the rules?

You break the rules on a short track, you're DQ'd and you don't win anything. You cheat and win in NASCAR, you keep the win, most of your prize money and your trip to Charlotte.
 
What I don't understand is why people who obviousley Hate NASCAR continue to watch it and talk about.......I just don't get it?
 
Should "integrity and nascar" be used in the same sentence? Or even in the same paragraph?
 
This IS a sport where the only way to actually win a few races is to bend the rules if not outright break them....I mean c'mon....
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
And that's the attitude that explains why NASCAR will never get respect.
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Well the problem exist because of the gray areas in NASCAR rule books. Maybe if they clamped down on the rules and make them black and white....
 
SpeedPagan said:
This IS a sport where the only way to actually win a few races is to bend the rules if not outright break them....I mean c'mon....
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SpeedPagan said:
Well the problem exist because of the gray areas in NASCAR rule books. Maybe if they clamped down on the rules and make them black and white....
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You got that right. NASCAR could end all this by going to a spec car and saying all changes need their approval before use. When a team is found outside the rules, hit them hard enough to assure they never do it again.

But NASCAR doesn't want that, and neither do I. It's all part of the history of stock car racing, and it makes for some great stories. I do feel that outright cheating should be dealt with much more harshly than going slightly outside tolerances, but nascar doesn't make that distinction.
 
FlFlash said:
What I don't understand is why people who obviousley Hate NASCAR continue to watch it and talk about.......I just don't get it?
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These teams and cars are under constant scrutiny by officials. How many times are the cars run thru tech before and after a race. For crying out loud, the cars sit side by side with other team cars in the garage area.

There have been cars presented to tech that were obviously outside of specs (Johnson and Gordon a few years ago) and the teams manipulated the cars knowing they would not pass tech. Those teams should have been sent home for the weekend.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Well the problem exist because of the gray areas in NASCAR rule books. Maybe if they clamped down on the rules and make them black and white....
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How can we go there when they can't even enforce basic rules?

The pit road speed limit -- how can that be taken seriously when they tell the drivers where the loops are and wink an eye at them.
 
I think Nascar makes a serious effort to do things right. But it is an almost impossible and a thankless task.


Race control usually bothers me most, I usually never want any cautions. But Nascar doesn't have the luxury I have to second guess. They have to get it right in real time, against a risk of not being safe.


I remember being at a modified race a few years ago at a 3/8 mile, with one spun and stopped sideways in one and two. The flagman was a little slow, and as the 125 mph pack roared by the flag stand I was terrified. Was a driver about to die? Thankfully the flagman waved the flag just in time.


Not a tech issue, but with racing there are so many things that can go wrong real fast. Governing or inspecting the cars against 43 CCs, who are freaks that live and breath to win isn't simple either.


But I am sure Nascar is no joke, F1 and Indy has the own questionable fiasco's, it is an unavoidable thing. Sucking up to everything Nascar does seems Naive to me, but tearing them a new one receptively seems foolish as well.



BTW my phone is a little dated, I couldn't open the link and I am writing based on the comments I read here.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
And that's the attitude that explains why NASCAR will never get respect.
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I don't agree with that statement at all. NASCAR has TONS of respect and millions of loyal fans. And if we woke up tomorrow and AndyMarquisLive was the President of NASCAR and you changed everything to where YOU think it makes NASCAR perfect, guess what, there would still be tons of fans that disagree with you.

None of us are ever going to agree on the "perfect" NASCAR and no matter what NASCAR does there will always be critics that think they know better.
 
KingGlamis said:
I don't agree with that statement at all. NASCAR has TONS of respect and millions of loyal fans. And if we woke up tomorrow and AndyMarquisLive was the President of NASCAR and you changed everything to where YOU think it makes NASCAR perfect, guess what, there would still be tons of fans that disagree with you.

None of us are ever going to agree on the "perfect" NASCAR and no matter what NASCAR does there will always be critics that think they know better.
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NASCAR doesn't get respect in the mainstream community. Compared to other sports, the fanbase is still very small.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
NASCAR doesn't get respect in the mainstream community. Compared to other sports, the fanbase is still very small.
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I certainly wouldn't call the fanbase "small" by any means. 8-9 million viewers per race and lots of races have over 100,000 attendees. MLB baseball averages 30,000+ attendees and the NFL averages over 65,000 atendees. I agree the media covers ball sports MUCH MUCH more than racing, but that is just the way it is.

Again, and read carefully so you don't misunderstand me, if NASCAR made EVERY change that YOU want to make the sport "perfect" it wouldn't change the number of fans or the "respect" of the mainstream community by any measurable amount. If you Google USA sports a lot of websites don't even consider racing as a sport.
 
I agree with KG, you also have to remember the NFL has 16 games in various cities each weekend where as NASCAR only has one Cup race each weekend. I'm sure someone with extra time could take the numbers for each sport and scew it any way they would like.
Stick and Ball Sports will always Win over automotive sports it's just the nature of our society and how people relate to sports.
 
FlFlash said:
Stick and Ball Sports will always Win over automotive sports it's just the nature of our society and how people relate to sports.
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the cost of racing is prohibitive to most people. baseball and football are sports found in almost every high school (and many grade school's) in america. they are everywhere and relatively inexpensive. i can't think of one school, at any level including college, that fields a racing team. (maybe mag's college). people grow up and know baseball and football. they don't know much (if anything) about racing until they are older.
 
Thanks for explaining that for me! I agree with your analysis.
 
KingGlamis said:
I certainly wouldn't call the fanbase "small" by any means. 8-9 million viewers per race and lots of races have over 100,000 attendees. MLB baseball averages 30,000+ attendees and the NFL averages over 65,000 atendees. I agree the media covers ball sports MUCH MUCH more than racing, but that is just the way it is.

Again, and read carefully so you don't misunderstand me, if NASCAR made EVERY change that YOU want to make the sport "perfect" it wouldn't change the number of fans or the "respect" of the mainstream community by any measurable amount. If you Google USA sports a lot of websites don't even consider racing as a sport.
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MLB only has two teams playing at any given ballpark. If 30,000+ average 30 stadiums, that's 900,000 people on any given weekend. NFL is far more.

You can look at the television ratings:

The World Series (which, again, is only between 2/30 teams) and the NBA Championship (same story) get much higher ratings than NASCAR. The "NASCAR has more fans than every other sport except football" is a myth. You can't compare the NASCAR race, with every competitor in the same event, getting 4 million viewers to an MLB game, with 2 teams out of 30 playing, getting 3.5 million viewers.

NASCAR has a relatively small fanbase, and there's a lot for it to over come. The attitude that cheating is acceptable, and NASCAR winking an eye at it, makes the sport look like a total joke.
 
SlowNeasy said:
the cost of racing is prohibitive to most people. baseball and football are sports found in almost every high school (and many grade school's) in america. they are everywhere and relatively inexpensive. i can't think of one school, at any level including college, that fields a racing team. (maybe mag's college). people grow up and know baseball and football. they don't know much (if anything) about racing until they are older.
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Oh tell me about it. Auto racing is very expensive. I remember when my brother was racing go-karts, when he started, my dad actually sold his Dodge Challenger in order to fund it, and even after that it was expensive as Hel, and this was just at the go-kart level (WKA racing), so I'd hate to see how expensive it is to race street stock, modified, or legend cars.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Oh tell me about it. Auto racing is very expensive. I remember when my brother was racing go-karts, when he started, my dad actually sold his Dodge Challenger in order to fund it, and even after that it was expensive as Hel, and this was just at the go-kart level (WKA racing), so I'd hate to see how expensive it is to race street stock, modified, or legend cars.
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http://www.littleracecars.com/about_legends.shtml



13k for base car
 
KingGlamis said:
I don't agree with that statement at all. NASCAR has TONS of respect and millions of loyal fans.
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Nascar has no respect really. Ask someone who doesn't watch(or even watches rarely) they will all tell you the same thing. Just a bunch of rednecks driving in circles.
 
Several colleges have Formula SAE teams.

But slowneasy is right, not a sport people can relate to (even though they SAY they can). NASCAR's "core" fanbase is greatly exaggerated. Just about every major sports event in the world nets higher ratings than the Daytona 500, even sports events carried on cable.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
MLB only has two teams playing at any given ballpark. If 30,000+ average 30 stadiums, that's 900,000 people on any given weekend. NFL is far more.
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30k average? Do most of the feilds even hold that many people? I don't know maybe you better check your sources on that one? I attend ALOT of Marlins, Rays and Braves games maybe when the Rays where in the playoffs they might have had 20k in the stands? same thing for the Marlins a few years back when they where the Championship team the stands where deserted, very sad. They Braves.....well no sport in Atlanta seems to draw very many fans :(
 
SlowNeasy said:
the cost of racing is prohibitive to most people. baseball and football are sports found in almost every high school (and many grade school's) in america. they are everywhere and relatively inexpensive. i can't think of one school, at any level including college, that fields a racing team. (maybe mag's college). people grow up and know baseball and football. they don't know much (if anything) about racing until they are older.
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You wrote what I was thinking, only better!
 
FlFlash said:
30k average? Do most of the feilds even hold that many people? I don't know maybe you better check your sources on that one? I attend ALOT of Marlins, Rays and Braves games maybe when the Rays where in the playoffs they might have had 20k in the stands? same thing for the Marlins a few years back when they where the Championship team the stands where deserted, very sad. They Braves.....well no sport in Atlanta seems to draw very many fans :(
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Fenway Park in Boston has the smallest capacity in the MLB with a capacity of just a little bit over 37k. Every other ballpark in the MLB has more seats then that.
 
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