Interesting….using the old points system.

Blaze

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Weird, just saw another one that shows Buescher as the points leader by 1 point using these points. Somehow Denny has the same on both, but they got Buescher above him by 1
 

Formerjackman

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Same here.

For some reason I remember exactly where I was when I heard that he had succumbed several weeks later to the effects of the severe burns.

I still prefer the era when the emphasis was simply on the race itself as opposed to the focus on points that developed over the years.
The one downside of that though is the many of the drivers would cherry pick which events they would go to, so you would show up to a short track race and have Richard Petty, James Hylton and 14 guys you were lucky if you knew who they were. David Pearson only ran for the championship three times in a nearly 30 year career, which means a LOT of people missed out on seeing one of the absolute all time greats in person. The change to putting an emphasis on collecting points and on plan money meant that to make any REAL money, you had to show up every week and help put on the show. Your memory or Fireball's death is much like my own memory of Swede Savage's death. The 1973 Indy 500 was my introduction to auto racing as a six year old, and as most people know it was an epic disaster of bad weather and death. I had just walked into the family room from playing outside when my Mom told me that Swede, who had been in the hospital the 33 days since his horrific crash, had passed away. Even though I had had no clue who he was a few weeks before, his death left quite an impression on me, and the realization that auto racing was a dangerous business.
 

StandOnIt

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Same here.

For some reason I remember exactly where I was when I heard that he had succumbed several weeks later to the effects of the severe burns.

I still prefer the era when the emphasis was simply on the race itself as opposed to the focus on points that developed over the years.
I think the gerbils have taken that to a new level. I think the playoffs would be more tolerable if they waited until the standings were more predictable in the third stage of the cut off race instead of starting their full court press yapping before the racing even starts. What they are doing would make better sense when there are only four drivers left, not 16.
 

jaqua19

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Everyone is going to have their own preference. For me personally, there was more prestige to a full season champion, imo every race was a playoff race. Sometimes a guy couldnt win and thats okay, I thought that took talent in its own right to not wreck in that moment and bring it home to live another day.... the dreaded "We had a good points day." But yeah the playoffs are here........ probably forever. I've already embraced the entertainment, weird, unconventional aspect of a playoff in motorsports. I just hope one day in this format the final race is rotated like college football does with the Championship Game and NFL with the Super Bowl. A rotation amongst Las Vegas-Fontana Short Track-Nashville FairGrounds-Texas-Charlotte Oval-Phoenix-Atlanta ( hear me out. I dont think Atlanta will always race the way it does now, once track wears of course) would be just absolutely insane, now thats a hill I'd die on.
Yeah, I mean obviously this was my opinion.

I think all champions are equally as deserving.

I just think the Chase was the perfect balance, and for me as a fan, it made me care about the championship more than I ever have before, or since.

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NASCAR Apologist

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What I find interesting that teams weren't complaining, drivers weren't complaining, fans weren't complaining, but we HAD to make a change. Well, the experiment is two decades old now, and HOW is the sport better than it was in 2003? More fans? NO. More TV viewership? NO. More sponsorship dollars? NO.
Have you seen what charters are going for? The sport is as popular and healthy as ever.
 

Formerjackman

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Have you seen what charters are going for? The sport is as popular and healthy as ever.
It's healthy if you are a car owner or NASCAR. If you are most of the drivers, you're flying on the shuttle plane and staying in a motel, and you can make more money selling tee shirts at a dirt race than selling merch at Cup races. If it's so popular, why are so many fewer people watching it, (a playoff race getting 1/12 of the audience of a second rate matchup regular season NFL game) and why can many tracks not approach a sellout even after tearing half the grandstands down? I am down to ONE person I come into contact with on a regular basis that still is a real follower, and even HE didn't watch the race this week, even though his driver (Blaney) is in the playoffs. If all of this is success, I'd hate to see what failure looks like.
 

FLRacingFan

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I think it was dull.

2004-2013 was the greatest format we ever had. For whatever reason, I always felt the champion was most deserving and it felt MORE prestigious. The driver who won the title during the chase each year was championship caliber all year, which, excluding Johnson, was Busch, Stewart, and Keselowski. And the contenders were great all year as well.

The drivers who were best all year got to do exactly what they did for 26 races during a mini season with a much smaller margin for error and it produced some 90s Jeff Gordon like playoff runs..Johnson has a bunch. But you had a handful of drivers who usually were top 3 guys performing at peak Jeff Gordon levels for 10 races..

The 10 race Chase was the best, most legitimate system for crowning a champion.

Full season format and playoffs are equally deserving champions, but the chase format was the best we ever had.

I'll die on that hill. It was thrilling


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The previous Chase was great at producing head-to-head battles over the final few races for the title. With all of the resets now it feels disjointed and doesn’t really flow the same way at all. Gordon/Johnson ‘07, Johnson/Hamlin ‘10, Stewart/Edwards ‘11, Keselowski/Johnson ‘12, and Johnson/Kenseth ‘13 were all fantastic in how the points race played out down the stretch. Felt like it was better at generating a narrative or story to tell.

Don’t think it rewarded regular season success as much as this one does though.
 

StandOnIt

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The previous Chase was great at producing head-to-head battles over the final few races for the title. With all of the resets now it feels disjointed and doesn’t really flow the same way at all. Gordon/Johnson ‘07, Johnson/Hamlin ‘10, Stewart/Edwards ‘11, Keselowski/Johnson ‘12, and Johnson/Kenseth ‘13 were all fantastic in how the points race played out down the stretch. Felt like it was better at generating a narrative or story to tell.

Don’t think it rewarded regular season success as much as this one does though.
I think the win and you are in should be kept, although flukes happen, it helps to motivate teams to race their guts out.
 

Formerjackman

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I think the win and you are in should be kept, although flukes happen, it helps to motivate teams to race their guts out.
I think win and you're in is completely absurd. I am all for giving plenty if bonus points for a win, really upping it's value, but one moment of luck or skill bookended by 25 weeks of mediocrity should get you NOTHING.
 

StandOnIt

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I think win and you're in is completely absurd. I am all for giving plenty if bonus points for a win, really upping it's value, but one moment of luck or skill bookended by 25 weeks of mediocrity should get you NOTHING.
It isn't that big a DEAL. Usually one team will hit the jackpot, go out in the round of 16 along with three others that don't have any business in the playoffs.
 

Formerjackman

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It isn't that big a DEAL. Usually one team will hit the jackpot, go out in the round of 16 along with three others that don't have any business in the playoffs.
Well, it's a big deal if you're 25th in points and your fluke win knocks a winless top ten team out of the playoffs. If we are going have this damn playoff system, then the goal should be to get the 16 (way too many by the way) CONSISTENTLY BEST teams into it. You want to see teams race like hell every week? Make it HARDER to make the playoffs. No "free" passes.
 

StandOnIt

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Well, it's a big deal if you're 25th in points and your fluke win knocks a winless top ten team out of the playoffs. If we are going have this damn playoff system, then the goal should be to get the 16 (way too many by the way) CONSISTENTLY BEST teams into it. You want to see teams race like hell every week? Make it HARDER to make the playoffs. No "free" passes.
The odds of that are slim and none. As it is there is plenty of teams being in the playoffs that don't belong. Including almost half of the field as it is and then the 4 car monte the last race is quite the crap shoot.
 

Blaze

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The odds of that are slim and none. As it is there is plenty of teams being in the playoffs that don't belong. Including almost half of the field as it is and then the 4 car monte the last race is quite the crap shoot.
I mean. Truex who was one of the best drivers last year missed the playoffs because of the system. Wasn’t he like 4th in regular season points? So it’s already happened..
 

Blaze

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Truex was winless last year.
Yes, that’s what the reply you replied to saying slim to none said. They said “knocks a winless top ten team out of the playoffs” and you said “The odds of that are slim and none” and I pointed out it happened just last season.
 

StandOnIt

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Dude, come on. You just said it wouldn’t happen AFTER IT HAPPENED… read what Jackman said again, and read your reply. Truex was a WINLESS driver who got knocked out. YOU said it’s slim and none it happens. What don’t you understand here?
Truex was in 17th place before the playoffs started. That is a long way from 10th place. You need to read it again it seems.
 

Blaze

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Truex was in 17th place before the playoffs started
I’m gonna try this one more time. If you don’t understand I’m done. Because it’s simple.

The way Jack set it up, was someone getting a win to GET INTO the playoffs, hints a 25th place driver. This wasn’t about knocking someone out once the playoffs started. If they took just the 16 best drivers, no win in and your in bs, Truex would’ve made the playoffs. That’s the whole point here man.
 

StandOnIt

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I’m gonna try this one more time. If you don’t understand I’m done. Because it’s simple.

The way Jack set it up, was someone getting a win to GET INTO the playoffs, hints a 25th place driver. This wasn’t about knocking someone out once the playoffs started. If they took just the 16 best drivers, no win in and your in bs, Truex would’ve made the playoffs. That’s the whole point here man.
Truex who you brought up as an example wasn't a top ten driver at the time of the playoffs. He was winless and in 17th place.
He wasn't 4th in points like you thought he was.
 

Blaze

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Truex who you brought up as an example wasn't a top ten driver at the time of the playoffs. He was winless and in 17th place. e wasn't 4th on points like you thought he was.
Whatever. I’m not gonna keep fighting you on this because it’s pointless. Have a good night
 

FLRacingFan

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Truex who you brought up as an example wasn't a top ten driver at the time of the playoffs. He was winless and in 17th place.
He wasn't 4th in points like you thought he was.
He was shown as 17th after the race because that’s when the reset occurs. He was 4th in regular season points.

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Ford 222

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All very good points and comments on the thread.
Bottom line for me - I now stay engaged to NASCAR till the final lap
of the last race.
Old days, I walked away from NASCAR for the year whenever
the season champ clinched.
Yup...and that happened a few times since 90 when I began watching.
 

StandOnIt

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All very good points and comments on the thread.
Bottom line for me - I now stay engaged to NASCAR till the final lap
of the last race.
Old days, I walked away from NASCAR for the year whenever
the season champ clinched.
Hard to argue that point. Even the casuals will usually have a driver in the final four that they are interested in how they do and they have followed them throughout the playoffs. Even with Elliott floundering this year, the numbers have still been decent considering.
 

Blaze

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I can’t really comment to much seeing as the Cup went to the Chase while I was still pretty young. But I mean I did watch the Truck and Busch/Nationwide seasons til the very end, and back then it was lot of Cuppers winning the championship in Busch/Nationwide. Because even if a champion is decided, there’s still a race to watch. So since for awhile I did it for those, I can safely say that I would still be watching once a champion was decided.

Having a full season championship would make the races it comes down to the last one feel really special because it happened naturally.
 

Formerjackman

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All very good points and comments on the thread.
Bottom line for me - I now stay engaged to NASCAR till the final lap
of the last race.
Old days, I walked away from NASCAR for the year whenever
the season champ clinched.
I've never been able to relate to that line of thinking. I guess that's one of the MANY reasons the various playoff formats don't appeal to me like it does others. I watch the race because there is a race going on. The points standings are not the primary reason I'm watching. My two current favorites have been out of realistic contention for months. Hasn't changed things on my end one bit.
 

StandOnIt

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I don't understand this. The remaining races will be run, drivers will be trying to win them, someone's going to hoist a trophy. Championship, schmampionship; racing is racing.
Yeah it had it's good points. There was almost always a couple of teams fighting for places going down to the end and a point system you could figure in your head. Now you get three different point results from three different sources, even they can get it right.
 

jaqua19

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I've never been able to relate to that line of thinking. I guess that's one of the MANY reasons the various playoff formats don't appeal to me like it does others. I watch the race because there is a race going on. The points standings are not the primary reason I'm watching. My two current favorites have been out of realistic contention for months. Hasn't changed things on my end one bit.
I think this is why all of us watch. We want to watch NASCAR racing, regardless of the format. And we want to see a champion crown, regardless of the format. The champion is still deserving of their title as champion in my eyes.

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BobbyFord

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I think this is why all of us watch. We want to watch NASCAR racing, regardless of the format. And we want to see a champion crown, regardless of the format. The champion is still deserving of their title as champion in my eyes.

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I think “champion” has far less meaning than it used to.
I couldn’t even tell you what track they’re going to next.
 
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