Is Brian Vickers being put in a very difficult situation?

EI2IC said:
Ugh, I hate arguing facts, much harder to win. Hes got double the wins of Truex who has a full time ride. Plus he did the best any driver could do with that Red Bull equipment he had to drive.
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Agree 100%. Vickers did the best out of anybody (including Kasey Kahne) in that underpowered Red Bull team.
 
I wouldn't call Vickers overrated. He was in the 25 car at HMS, which was always kind of the red-headed stepchild of that organization; Team Red Bull was far from top-tier equipment, especially in their first couple seasons; then he had his medical issues to overcome. Besides, Vickers doesn't receive Junior or Danica levels of press, which makes it even harder to consider him overrated.
 
Vickers is a tale of two drivers imo.
Not impresive with Hendrick.
So So with Red Bull. Kahne made him look bad.

But impressive with the MWR, and the best avalible talent for the current need. He seems wiser and more focused, but the recent improvement still needs scrutiny.
I thimk MWR should attach performance clauses in 2014 if he drives for them, and dump Truax if he doesnt win this year and make the chase (but I fear those dumb NAPA commercials will keep him in buisness, regardless).

Sadler no way, sign somebody young instead.
 
good points greg.
vickers now havin ta work fer his job. bye-bye hollywood !
 
How did Kahne make Vickers look bad? Kasey Kahne, who is regarded as one of the best drivers in Sprint Cup, couldn't make the Chase. Once Kahne went to Red Bull, he got the best equipment and still couldn't accomplish what Vickers did in 2009.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
How did Kahne make Vickers look bad? Kasey Kahne, who is regarded as one of the best drivers in Sprint Cup, couldn't make the Chase. Once Kahne went to Red Bull, he got the best equipment and still couldn't accomplish what Vickers did in 2009.
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Red Bull 2009 doesnt equal going out of biz-Red Bull 2011. In 09 Kahne would have out classed Vickers with a RB car as well.

Vickers was focused on petty paybacks, 2011 Martiville and Phoneix. While Kahne was racking up good finishes and a win (aka the object of the races) in the same time span.

The economy was attributed to Vickers getting few opportunities in 2012, and that is a big factor. But there were other factors, and some less than glam (pretty boys) got offers while the late 2011 unfocused Vickers was rejected. Quick examples: Kurt B, Allmendinger, Lagano, they are not GQ types just more cinvincing to owners.

If Vickers had drove as well in 2011 as he did in 2012s limited events, he woukd have a full time cup ride now.
Maybe he learned something from Kahne, I hope he did.
 
Vickers got a bad rep at Martinsville because he took Kenseth out. The other wrecks weren't even close to his fault. Kenseth deserved what he got - if you're a Chase driver trying to win a championship, it'd be a bad idea to deliberately wreck someone who really has nothing to lose. And Kasey Kahne went to Red Bull with his long time crew chief, the same crew chief he has now. Having your veteran crew chief going with you when you go to a different team makes a difference.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Vickers got a bad rep at Martinsville because he took Kenseth out. The other wrecks weren't even close to his fault. Kenseth deserved what he got - if you're a Chase driver trying to win a championship, it'd be a bad idea to deliberately wreck someone who really has nothing to lose. And Kasey Kahne went to Red Bull with his long time crew chief, the same crew chief he has now. Having your veteran crew chief going with you when you go to a different team makes a difference.
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Vickers has had 10 plus years to find a good wrench, syncing up with a good one is part of the deal. Francis apparently knows a good driver and follows him, BV loses that one too.
 
Sounds like Andy found religion and believes Vickers has been reborn as a top driver.
 
Greg said:
Vickers has had 10 plus years to find a good wrench, syncing up with a good one is part of the deal. Francis apparently knows a good driver and follows him, BV loses that one too.
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And Vickers spent several years at an organization that was all about making sure two cars ran well. Hell, even Kyle Busch wasn't as good as his talent is in a second tier Hendrick car. Hendrick's the same team that tore apart TWO teams that finished in the top five in the championship to make sure Junyer and Jimmie ran well. Kyle Busch's first year outside Hendrick and he won eight races.

Like I said, Kasey Kahne is regarded as one of the best drivers in NASCAR who's never even come close to the greatness everyone thinks he's capable of. When he came in to Cup, everyone thought he would win the championship within three years. As for Vickers being "overrated", what he did with Red Bull in 2009 and what Montoya did at Ganassi in 2009 were big deals. Two drivers that took sorry ass cars and made the Chase and they're two drivers that get criticized by the media all the time.
 
FenderBumper said:
Sounds like Andy found religion and believes Vickers has been reborn as a top driver.
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The Vickers hate gets on my nerves. Everyone acts like he was hyped up to be the second coming of Jeff Gordon and disappointed in great equipment when, in reality, he's never been regarded at all and has performed better than he should given the trash he's been in his ENTIRE Cup career.
 
As far as the situation - it's not a bad situation. Worst case scenario, Vickers doesn't run well in a car he's not the normal driver of - and everybody already thinks he sucks and won't do anything so it's not like he's gonna get bad press. Best case scenario, Vickers blows away the very low expectations and ends up with a full time ride next season.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
And Vickers spent several years at an organization that was all about making sure two cars ran well. Hell, even Kyle Busch wasn't as good as his talent is in a second tier Hendrick car. Hendrick's the same team that tore apart TWO teams that finished in the top five in the championship to make sure Junyer and Jimmie ran well. Kyle Busch's first year outside Hendrick and he won eight races.

Like I said, Kasey Kahne is regarded as one of the best drivers in NASCAR who's never even come close to the greatness everyone thinks he's capable of. When he came in to Cup, everyone thought he would win the championship within three years. As for Vickers being "overrated", what he did with Red Bull in 2009 and what Montoya did at Ganassi in 2009 were big deals. Two drivers that took sorry ass cars and made the Chase and they're two drivers that get criticized by the media all the time.
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Sorry but I never met any of those everyones expecting Kahne to get a title in his first three years.I am not on his bandwagon neither, I consider Kahne to be one of the 10 current best but closer to p10 then p1.
But I do think he is better than Vickers by a long shot. But different opinions is a good thing and it is subjective so I wll just disagree and move on. If Vickers proves me wrong it wll not hurt my feelings.

I respected JPM 2009, but I think McMurray has performed better overall.
 
Greg said:
Sorry but I never met any of those everyones expecting Kahne to get a title in his first three years.I am not on his bandwagon neither, I consider Kahne to be one of the 10 current best but closer to p10 then p1.
But I do think he is better than Vickers by a long shot. But different opinions is a good thing and it is subjective so I wll just disagree and move on. If Vickers proves me wrong it wll not hurt my feelings.

I respected JPM 2009, but I think McMurray has performed better overall.
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All I'm saying is that there are a lot of people who think Vickers sucks and is overrated because Kasey Kahne, who is considered to be one of the top five drivers in NASCAR, won a race with Red Bull (so did Vickers). Vickers has never been considered to be a great driver and Kasey Kahne always has been considered a top-five driver. It'd be like saying Aric Almirola's overrated because he hasn't won a race in crap cars and citing Jimmie Johnson's five championships as proof that Almirola is overrated. And where the Vickers/Kahne comparisons fails is that Vickers accomplished more in Red Bull trash than Kasey Kahne did.

The fact that Kahne only scored one win with Red Bull and didn't make the Chase speaks volumes to how crappy Red Bull cars were and gives even more credibility to how impressive Vickers' 2009 Chase run was IMO. Honestly, I think Kahne and Vickers both spending years in mediocre equipment (RPM/Evernham and Red Bull for Kahne and #25 and Red Bull for Vickers) made them both better drivers. They both had to rely on their talent. I also think that's why Kahne sucked at the start of last season - he was used to having to give 110%.

I honestly think Kahne's the best driver at Hendrick. He's the only one who hasn't been pampered and placed in top-five cars his entire NASCAR career. Still pissed at Hendrick over how they disassembled Mark Martin's entire team after his 2009 run because they think they can work miracles there and make Junyer a better driver than he is.
 
I've always been a vickers fan. Everyone loves to hate him. I don't get it. The results have never really reflected his driving IMO. He failed for the most part in the 25.. I was stoked on his drives in the 83(he helped work out the kinks before kahne came aboard) and he's kicked ass in the 55 and led laps at every type of track in it. He's got a hell of an opportunity I hope he makes the best of it.
 
If Vickers is considered overrated, it has absolutely nothing to do with any other driver(s). This isn't politics, it's racing.

Vickers has never once lived up to his hype - that's not Kahne's fault - so maybe we should judge him on his own achievements, or lack thereof.
 
DUN24 said:
I've always been a vickers fan. Everyone loves to hate him. I don't get it. The results have never really reflected his driving IMO. He failed for the most part in the 25.. I was stoked on his drives in the 83(he helped work out the kinks before kahne came aboard) and he's kicked ass in the 55 and led laps at every type of track in it. He's got a hell of an opportunity I hope he makes the best of it.
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I like Vickers personality, but that's not what this is about. If you're still making excuses for a driver 264 races into his career, he just isn't a top 10 competitor. He really seems to fall in with the group of young drivers who got a cup ride and felt like they had made it. David Reagan, Scott Speed, Sorenson and even Logano (until this year) seemed content to ride around and hold on to their ride. It takes huge talent and /or a lot of hard work, along with a burning desire to be a consistant winner in cup.

Hey, I hope I'm wrong, because anyone who puts Tony's fat rear on a stack of tires needs to be in cup.
 
Clutch said:
Still cant stop laughing at the thought. :XXROFL:
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That was a funny day for sure. Tony jacked up on the side of a road course and calling roadside assistance.

I seem to recall Tony taking out Jr and a couple of other cars when he pile drove Vickers into the turn. How does he get away with it and come out with all that respect intact?
 
I think what he does in his final eight races in the #55 will make or break any potential 2014 Cup deal with Aaron's. If he runs as well and as consistently as he has in the last calendar year I think he'll have a ride.
 
Clutch said:
He's a bully that is tolerated by Nascrap for some reason. They must some graphs and charts that determine his actions amount to $$$$ for them
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I love that he does this stuff. I just get a little mad when the media gives him a pass. Nate Ryan twisted himself into a pretzel trying to argue that Tony was consistant on the issue of blocking. :rolleyes:
 
FenderBumper said:
I love that he does this stuff. I just get a little mad when the media gives him a pass. Nate Ryan twisted himself into a pretzel trying to argue that Tony was consistant on the issue of blocking. :rolleyes:
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That's just the way Tony is.....watched him since Indycar...but on blocking........hipocrite
 
Clutch said:
That's just the way Tony is.....watched him since Indycar...but on blocking........hipocrite
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He's the biggest hypocrite and Nascar and has been for a while. Does anyone remember the days when he was more worried about racing than talking?

Stewart vs Gordon, awsome racing back then.
 
racer8 said:
I respect your opinion but disagree. However I still wonder why he left Hendrick to go to a start up Red Bull team.
Of course I still wonder why Bobby LaBonte left Gibbs for a struggling Petty team.
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Bobby left Gibbs because of ego. His ego and JD's. He felt there wasn't much more he could do with Gibbs, and knew that with JD running the show he would always be an after thought. He went to Petty because he knew he would be top dog, and wanted help "build" them back up. Same reason he went to Ken Butler's team and now at JTG.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
How did Kahne make Vickers look bad? Kasey Kahne, who is regarded as one of the best drivers in Sprint Cup, couldn't make the Chase. Once Kahne went to Red Bull, he got the best equipment and still couldn't accomplish what Vickers did in 2009.
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Exactly. Kahne was with Red Bull for one year (last), and only recorded one win in the second to last race of the season. Vickers helped build Red Bull from the ground up and got them competitive. If anything you could argue that Vickers brought Red Bull to being a respectable team. If it wasn't for Vickers, Kahne would have had any decent cars to drive in 2011.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
All I'm saying is that there are a lot of people who think Vickers sucks and is overrated because Kasey Kahne, who is considered to be one of the top five drivers in NASCAR, won a race with Red Bull (so did Vickers). Vickers has never been considered to be a great driver and Kasey Kahne always has been considered a top-five driver. It'd be like saying Aric Almirola's overrated because he hasn't won a race in crap cars and citing Jimmie Johnson's five championships as proof that Almirola is overrated. And where the Vickers/Kahne comparisons fails is that Vickers accomplished more in Red Bull trash than Kasey Kahne did.

The fact that Kahne only scored one win with Red Bull and didn't make the Chase speaks volumes to how crappy Red Bull cars were and gives even more credibility to how impressive Vickers' 2009 Chase run was IMO. Honestly, I think Kahne and Vickers both spending years in mediocre equipment (RPM/Evernham and Red Bull for Kahne and #25 and Red Bull for Vickers) made them both better drivers. They both had to rely on their talent. I also think that's why Kahne sucked at the start of last season - he was used to having to give 110%.

I honestly think Kahne's the best driver at Hendrick. He's the only one who hasn't been pampered and placed in top-five cars his entire NASCAR career. Still pissed at Hendrick over how they disassembled Mark Martin's entire team after his 2009 run because they think they can work miracles there and make Junyer a better driver than he is.
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I think this says it all.
 
#17D500winner said:
If Vickers is considered overrated, it has absolutely nothing to do with any other driver(s). This isn't politics, it's racing.

Vickers has never once lived up to his hype - that's not Kahne's fault - so maybe we should judge him on his own achievements, or lack thereof.
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I think what Andy and now I are saying is what Vickers' "hype"? Although he had a damn good NNS career, he was never regarded as one of the top cup drivers. So how can he be overrated, if he really isn't being hyped at all? Nobody is pulling a Slicebread and saying that Vickers will be the next champion, or that he is better than drivers like Tony Stewart. When I watch Fox, TNT, and ESPN promos for up coming events they don't list Vickers as a selling point. You know like they do with drivers like Jr and Danica. Calling Vickers overrated is like calling David Ragan, Reagan Smith, or David Ruetimann overrated.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
It was great because you could tell Tony kind of respected him for that. Kind of like, "well **** I guess I had it coming."
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How can you be pissed when you end up on top of a tire wall in such a ridiculous way? He probably hopped out and laughed at the fact that not one tire was touching the ground. I know I would.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
I think what Andy and now I are saying is what Vickers' "hype"? Although he had a damn good NNS career, he was never regarded as one of the top cup drivers. So how can he be overrated, if he really isn't being hyped at all? Nobody is pulling a Slicebread and saying that Vickers will be the next champion, or that he is better than drivers like Tony Stewart. When I watch Fox, TNT, and ESPN promos for up coming events they don't list Vickers as a selling point. You know like they do with drivers like Jr and Danica. Calling Vickers overrated is like calling David Ragan, Reagan Smith, or David Ruetimann overrated.
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He was hyped in his HMS days and isn't now because he's proven that the hype was just that - hype.
 
#17D500winner said:
He was hyped in his HMS days and isn't now because he's proven that the hype was just that - hype.
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Yeah, he was overhyped by Hendrick. He was one of the guys I remember being described as the "next Jeff Gordon". But, I think Vickers got a bad deal and is now underrated. He spent a lot of time with that bad Red Bull team and had his medical issues and I think people unfairly think of him as a "bad" driver. He's probably a top 15-20 driver. A guy who can rack up one or two wins a year and can contend for the Chase wild card in this current format.
 
#17D500winner said:
He was hyped in his HMS days and isn't now because he's proven that the hype was just that - hype.
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bull****. He won a Nationwide championship and it went ignored. There wasn't a single driver who got credit in 2002, 2003 and 2004. The "minor league" racing world centered around Kyle Busch. There were a lot of drivers who did great things in that timeframe that never got a quality ride. Once Kyle went in to Nationwide, the world focused on Martin Truex and Shane Hmiel (who would've shown the world that Kyle Busch is a puss if he hadn't blown his career away).
 
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