Is the 43-1 points system too simple?

FLRacingFan

FLRacingFan

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With the Chase format being changed to emphasize winning you'd figure the points system would've gone through another overhaul too, except it didn't. I feel like system we've had since 2011 doesn't reward good finishes enough and punishes poor finishes too much. I'm not quite sure why they got rid of the one we had beforehand where the top of the field was separated by 5 points per position, the middle by 4 points, and the back end by 3 points each. As it is now, the points difference between 26th and 43rd is the same difference between 8th and 25th and I really don't think anyone here believes that reflects the truth.

As it is now, it's looking more and more like multiple drivers are going to get into the Chase on points, and come Chase time at least one driver is going to advance from each round on points. So why are we still using a points system that currently has a driver who hasn't finished better than 9th the whole year in the Chase ahead of a driver with 7 Top 10s? A system that has a driver with 0 Top 5s ranked ahead of a driver with 2 wins and 4 Top 5s?
 
I like how getting wins helps a ton while trying to get into the chase, but I think it should be tweaked so points come into play more than they currently do.

And leading laps, finishing constantly in the top 5, top 10, should be awarded accordingly.
 
KISS
Keep It Simple, Stupid.
The 43:1 system is the one the makes the most sense imo. The old system was too complex haha. I looked at it like the college ranking system. Nobody really knows how it works, but I go with the flow from week to week :p

The perfect points system would be this 43:1 with NO CHASE.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
KISS
Keep It Simple, Stupid.
The 43:1 system is the one the makes the most sense imo. The old system was too complex haha. I looked at it like the college ranking system. Nobody really knows how it works, but I go with the flow from week to week :p

The perfect points system would be this 43:1 with NO CHASE.
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At a quick glance it might look like it makes the most sense, but is going from 43rd to 26th really as difficult as going from 25th to 8th? You're gaining 17 points either way. Hence why I much prefer a weighted system like we used to have and like F1 and IndyCar have now.
 
i still feel as Brian wanted to be known for revolutionizing the sport and be mentioned like his father and grandfather. he's just not smart enough. i wonder how much Mike Helton's involvement in this fiasco is
 
FLRacingFan said:
At a quick glance it might look like it makes the most sense, but is going from 43rd to 26th really as difficult as going from 25th to 8th? You're gaining 17 points either way. Hence why I much prefer a weighted system like we used to have and like F1 and IndyCar have now.
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Of course getting from 43 rd to 26th is just as difficult as 25th to 8th . Go to any race track in the world and ask the competitors . This thing about the competitors at the back of the field not racing each other is plain stupid . What was doubly difficult , was making the top 35 in owner points . The easy part of racing is when you have a top ten car , with a top ten crew and crew chief , a top ten sponsor and a top ten owner . Any one of those back markers would kill to sit in that ride and steer around corners .
 
biggest movers are mostly top cars that didn't qualify well for whatever reason.
 
ted@economy said:
This thing about the competitors at the back of the field not racing each other is plain stupid.
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That's not at all what I said.

Take Kyle Busch in the Nationwide Series race at Las Vegas earlier this year. He had to start at the very back of the field because of unapproved adjustments. By lap 10 he was already 11th (roughly 30 positions in ten laps). By lap 20 he had moved up only to 7th. Lap 30 - 6th, lap 40 - 5th, lap 50 - 5th. The further up the field you go the harder it is to gain the next position.
 
don't forget the doctor's note to miss gym race
 
if they would use the 1 - 43 point system and then give a big enough bonus points to the winner, might consider giving 2nd and 3rd a little something, do away with the chase, most points end of season, champion....would make me happy....didn't hate the old point system, just easier for me to keep up with how many points my driver is gaining or usually losing as the laps wind down.
 
pudge said:
if they would use the 1 - 43 point system and then give a big enough bonus points to the winner, might consider giving 2nd and 3rd a little something, do away with the chase, most points end of season, champion....would make me happy....didn't hate the old point system, just easier for me to keep up with how many points my driver is gaining or usually losing as the laps wind down.
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I think that was the original problem they had, when they changed it to go from 43-1 the max separation between 1st and 2nd became only six points and it can be as little as three points if 2nd place leads the most laps.
 
1 to 43 with no chase would be great with me . Unfortunately the points system has been pretty much scrapped . I honestly haven't heard points mentioned all year .
 
ted@economy said:
1 to 43 with no chase would be great with me . Unfortunately the points system has been pretty much scrapped . I honestly haven't heard points mentioned all year .
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I think TNT asked Jimmie Johnson about it during the pre-race last week and he repeated the mantra re: "There won't be 16 winners by Richmond so points still matter." Matter to who, Jimmie? Not you and your two wins. The biggest stars in the series will have a win by the Chase, I'm guessing. So, I guess the points system is still a big deal to the likes of Kasey Kahne, Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. and Brian Vickers.
 
There will be changes coming after Homestead, the current system will go down in history as being the most ignorant of them all, betting that next years is worse if thats possible. I hope the 48 wins this year just to top off the nonsense
 
I know the old point system wasn't too much for 10 year old me to understand, I had that **** hard wired for years.


I was shocked and concerned about the intelligence of this country when Brian France said that we needed to "simplify the points system" and that "the current point system is too difficult to understand" what an asshat. Speaking for me like that..

That was the day I learned Brian France was tarded.(before 'the playoffs' lolol)
 
ted@economy said:
Of course getting from 43 rd to 26th is just as difficult as 25th to 8th . Go to any race track in the world and ask the competitors . This thing about the competitors at the back of the field not racing each other is plain stupid . What was doubly difficult , was making the top 35 in owner points . The easy part of racing is when you have a top ten car , with a top ten crew and crew chief , a top ten sponsor and a top ten owner . Any one of those back markers would kill to sit in that ride and steer around corners .
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I respectfully disagree. The racing is just more helter skelter back there as it should be. They are not set up as well, and they are fighting a more erratic world.

Still the same getting that last extra 10th a second and being able to run top ten requires more skill and teamwork. As a car gets closer to the front the cars get faster and tougher to pass.

And in spite of Newman like exceptions a driver will usually fight harder to protect P1 than P30 late in a race. They are human and they race each every week, picking your battles wisely applies.

It also takes a lot more refinement$ to convert 15 spots up front (As in going from P15 to P1, verses P30 to P15.) So I do think the point rewards should progressively increase near the front.

Imo a win should be worth 100 points, 2nd 80 points, 3rd 75, .....p30 to p43 1 point each, and no chase.
 
Greg said:
I respectfully disagree. The racing is just more helter skelter back there as it should be. They are not set up as well, and they are fighting a more erratic world.

Still the same getting that last extra 10th a second and being able to run top ten requires more skill and teamwork. As a car gets closer to the front the cars get faster and tougher to pass.

And in spite of Newman like exceptions a driver will usually fight harder to protect P1 than P30 late in a race. They are human and they race each every week, picking your battles wisely applies.

It also takes a lot more refinement$ to convert 15 spots up front (As in going from P15 to P1, verses P30 to P15.) So I do think the point rewards should progressively increase near the front.

Imo a win should be worth 100 points, 2nd 80 points, 3rd 75, .....p30 to p43 1 point each, and no chase.
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I'm a big fan of the IndyCar points system. Weighted towards the front and still easy to memorize. I ran the current year's Cup results under that system and I think it's more indicative of how drivers have performed this year (ex: Jr. is 1st in points while having the most Top 5s and tied for the most wins).
 
FLRacingFan said:
I'm a big fan of the IndyCar points system. Weighted towards the front and still easy to memorize. I ran the current year's Cup results under that system and I think it's more indicative of how drivers have performed this year (ex: Jr. is 1st in points while having the most Top 5s and tied for the most wins).
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this is what i believe Brian kinda wants it to be like, but still have some sorta nascar point system format over it, as to not have people think he didn't come up with it. can't admit that another motorsport may have something in system that works better than nascar.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
Points? What are these "points" you speak of? Are those from the slightly less f***ed up days of NASCAR in 2013?
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This.

Honestly, I was fine with the 2013 rules. I'm probably one of the few that will admit that they liked the Chase as it was, and while I feel that the change from the traditional points structure to the 43-1 system was unnecessary, I was okay with that too. Points-wise, there was enough of a separation between first and second in a race to put winning at a premium, which is what many of the fans wanted (and a change that had already been implemented sufficiently by 2011), and then every other position was one spot on the track. Cool. But no, The Brain just couldn't leave it alone, could he? Winning not only needed to be important - it needed to be literally everything, and now it is.

My man FL makes a decent case for staggering the points throughout the field more, and I would agree with him if points still meant anything. They don't. And don't anyone try to tell me that they'll mean anything in the new elimination rounds when the new Chase starts, because eff the new Chase.

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now.
 
I love how NASCAR has been touting Dale Jr. as the points leader all week, even though Gordon and Kenseth have more points. But, because he has the most points of the two-time winners, BOOM, he's the points leader. I guess 476>498 in Brian's World. :rolleyes:
 
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You think it's too simple?

Have you ever tried to explain it to a non fan? Lol

Confused-Cat-Meme-2.jpg
 
While it seems pretty popular to think the points don't matter as we get closer to the last lap at Richmond we'll quickly find out that simply isn't the case. Points will play a big role in who does and doesn't make the Chase field. We aren't getting to 16 different winners after the 26th race. Even once they are in the Chase the points will play a huge role in determining which teams advance and which ones are eliminated as the Chase rounds progress.

I like the 43-1 system. I'm just not a fan of the Chase itself. I only wish they had come up with the new points idea before ever introducing the Chase. At this point it really doesn't matter. It's here and it's here to stay. I'm going to wait for this all to play out to see what kind of excitement it creates.
 
Stating that the old system was "too complex" is complete hogwash. It wasn't the least bit difficult to figure out, or to explain to a non-racing fan. Even if it was hard to figure out, who really cares? As much as I love college football, I couldn't care less how they came up with the BCS formula.

The old system made sense. Weighted formats are the way to go in racing. The battle for 32nd shouldn't be as important as the battle for 3rd. The new points system is awful IMO.
 
Stating that the old system was "too complex" is complete hogwash. It wasn't the least bit difficult to figure out, or to explain to a non-racing fan. Even if it was hard to figure out, who really cares? As much as I love college football, I couldn't care less how they came up with the BCS formula.
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I like the 43 point system, it is easy to understand. With the old system I had to do a search to find out which positions got 5 points, 3 points, or 1 point (because I couldn't remember the system).

From a numerology point of view; 43 is linked to a well known driver, 48 (for max points) is linked to a well known driver, and 3 elimination rounds in the Chase is linked to a well known driver.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I'm a big fan of the IndyCar points system. Weighted towards the front and still easy to memorize. I ran the current year's Cup results under that system and I think it's more indicative of how drivers have performed this year (ex: Jr. is 1st in points while having the most Top 5s and tied for the most wins).
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Yeah and the IndyCar system has led to a natural "championship" round in the final race pretty much every season since... man I can't even remember. Anyone wanna look that up? There's always something to race for in the final week.
 
ToyYoda said:
I love how NASCAR has been touting Dale Jr. as the points leader all week, even though Gordon and Kenseth have more points. But, because he has the most points of the two-time winners, BOOM, he's the points leader. I guess 476>498 in Brian's World. :rolleyes:
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Because when Dale Jr wins, it has to be sensationalized.

Zerkfitting said:
From a numerology point of view; 43 is linked to a well known driver, 48 (for max points) is linked to a well known driver, and 3 elimination rounds in the Chase is linked to a well known driver.
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Wat? 43 are the numbers of cars on track. You can get 5 max bonus points = 48. 3 elims was just a way to break up the final 10 to leave the homestead bowl by itself.
 
What will happen when we start to get less than 43 cars in a race (which I'm guessing will start to happen in 2015 and become more and more common).
 
Speedbowl14 said:
What will happen when we start to get less than 43 cars in a race (which I'm guessing will start to happen in 2015 and become more and more common).
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Shouldn't be any change. In a 40-car field, I imagine 40th would get 4 points just as they do now.

Is this how it is in Trucks and NW?
 
Speedbowl14 said:
What will happen when we start to get less than 43 cars in a race (which I'm guessing will start to happen in 2015 and become more and more common).
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It just goes down from 43 to however many cars there are in the race. Last place in the Nationwide race at Dover got 4 points (field limit is 40 now).
 
I think another reason 43-1 was implemented is because it makes the championship battle look tighter. A 200-point lead in the old system equates to about a 50- point lead now, but doesn't 50 points sound a whole lot less insurmountable than 200 points?
 
pudge said:
if they would use the 1 - 43 point system and then give a big enough bonus points to the winner, might consider giving 2nd and 3rd a little something, do away with the chase, most points end of season, champion....would make me happy....didn't hate the old point system, just easier for me to keep up with how many points my driver is gaining or usually losing as the laps wind down.
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to this i would add, i don't care for the 1 point for leading a lap, never have liked it, chase or pre-chase. i'm ok with the 1 point for leading the most laps. put that bonus money back out there for leading at halfway.
 
I think that we are all missing the point about points . For the first time ,in the history of motorsports , winning , not consistancy is the determining factor in crowning a champion . I don't care what points system they use . I do care that points don't matter any more . That isn't right.
 
ted@economy said:
I think that we are all missing the point about points . For the first time ,in the history of motorsports , winning , not consistancy is the determining factor in crowning a champion . I don't care what points system they use . I do care that points don't matter any more . That isn't right.
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i understand, and i'm with ya..i guess i got derailed and was thinking more how i'ld like to see them or could fix them. they will never go back to the way they were.
 
ted@economy said:
I think that we are all missing the point about points . For the first time ,in the history of motorsports , winning , not consistancy is the determining factor in crowning a champion . I don't care what points system they use . I do care that points don't matter any more . That isn't right.
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I hated the new Chase format when they rolled it out in January, and 5 months later my opinion hasn't changed much. The whole thing is just kind of a mess, IMO. The fact that Kenseth is 2nd in points and could miss the Chase while Kurt Busch is 27th in points and locked in irks me a little.
 
ToyYoda said:
I love how NASCAR has been touting Dale Jr. as the points leader all week, even though Gordon and Kenseth have more points. But, because he has the most points of the two-time winners, BOOM, he's the points leader. I guess 476>498 in Brian's World. :rolleyes:
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that's new math for ya
 
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