Is the 47 as bad as we think?

[WhiningSmoke]

AJ Allmendinger drove the JTG Daugherty #47 to a 10th place finish at the Glen on Sunday. He likely would've been challenging for the win had it not been for his fuel issues. He's performed top 20 ever since climbing into that car.

Marcos Ambrose did a pretty good in the 47 car as well, although that was under the MWR banner.

Bobby Labonte though, had done awful in that car. He barely runs in the top 30 if that.

My question, is the 47 as bad as we think? If not, what would it be capable of if say, Kurt Busch drove it?

 

[Reck]

Like I said on another thread WinningSmoke, both Marcos and now AJ have done well for themselves in the 47. Labomte just plainly sucks.

You can put Labonte in Jimmie's car and he'll spin it out.

 

[Jeffrey00]

Ok AJ fans, have fun in the 47 next year. I am not saying that Bobby is an awesome race car driver still, but the 47 is awful.

 

[HoneyBadger]

AJ Allmendinger's a pretty good road racer. And it's not unusual for oddball cars to run up front in road course races.

 

[HoneyBadger]

That said, Bobby Labonte's been a mediocre (at best) driver for a decade now. It's time to move on. He's just another product of the biggest problem in NASCAR - once you get in Cup, you can stay as long as you want. Another reason younger drivers can't move up in NASCAR.

 

[Lazyking]

Aj was in the car before watkins glen and did about or just a tad better then Bobby. the car still lacks horsepower.

 

[StandOnIt]

AJ Allmendinger drove the JTG Daugherty #47 to a 10th place finish at the Glen on Sunday. He likely would've been challenging for the win had it not been for his fuel issues. He's performed top 20 ever since climbing into that car.

Marcos Ambrose did a pretty good in the 47 car as well, although that was under the MWR banner.

Bobby Labonte though, had done awful in that car. He barely runs in the top 30 if that.

My question, is the 47 as bad as we think? If not, what would it be capable of if say, Kurt Busch drove it?

yeah I think it is. His crew ran him out of gas and ruined his day. His driving got him a 10th. The car is not that great on ovals, and along with a crew like that it adds up. Whole lot better than nothing though.

 

[Captain Coyfish]

It sucks (spliting from MWR was a fatal mistake) but some of the issue is also Labonte. Road courses tend to require less HP to run good.

 

[Reck]

Mediocre is putting it lightly. lol

Didn't Marcos win in that 47 and had a handful of top 5s and 10s?

Lets call it what it is here. 47 is not optimal equipment yeah but Labonte makes it seem that much worse.

Its no coincidence other drivers have done moderately well in it.

 

[Lazyking]

Mediocre is putting it lightly. lol

Didn't Marcos win in that 47 and had a handful of top 5s and 10s?

Lets call it what it is here. 47 is not optimal equipment yeah but Labonte makes it seem that much worse.

Its no coincidence other drivers have done moderately well in it.

With Ambrose, the backing the 47 team got was from MWR. They backed out of that deal.

Bobby is done but that team is not a top 20 team with any driver at the moment.

 

[ToyYoda]

Mediocre is putting it lightly. lol

Didn't Marcos win in that 47 and had a handful of top 5s and 10s?

Lets call it what it is here. 47 is not optimal equipment yeah but Labonte makes it seem that much worse.

Its no coincidence other drivers have done moderately well in it.

Ambrose never won in the 47 but came close a couple times, the closest being Sonoma in 2010 when he shut the car off under caution while leading to conserve fuel, then couldn't get it re-fired. He would have most certainly won that race otherwise.

 

[3wideinturn1]

I think it's just as bad as we think, as others have said the road course results were more a product of some real good racing by Marcos and AJ. They don't have the horsepower to compete on the big tracks nor the driver to wheel them a good finish on the short tracks. I think they branched out from MWR too soon, but who knows what was going on behind the scenes there.

If they plan on staying in the Toyota camp they really need to start running TRD engines, and if I were JTG I would look at buying either some JGR or MWR chassis. Bring in a half decent driver like AJ and see what happens. Without question though B Labonte needs to be put out to pasture, he's bringing the performance down IMO. It's ironic that his first start in the 47 will more than likely be his best result, I believe it was 4th at the 2011 Daytona 500.

 

[PushRodV8]

Labonte is a past champion. I think he should be treated like one, but yes he has for sure been off pace for awhile. I don't think he "sucks", I think he was better in older gen cars. Maybe he just isn't trying that much anymore.

 

[FLRacingFan]

It is that bad. Road courses are less dependent on equipment than ovals are, hence why someone driving a Front Row Motorsports or Leavine Family Racing car can run in the Top 15-Top 20 all day.

AJ finished 19th and 22nd in his two oval starts in the #47 and that's considered good for that group. If they do end up partnering with RCR that will be a big step up for them and help them on the ovals.

 

[hidesert cowboy]

road racing is almost like restrictor plate racing in that the cars are more equal to each other. The driver has more control in how the car runs. as to the 47 car being bad yeah I think its a sucky car, labonte is so washed up its not even funny any more. guys like this need to just retire and move on. I would think it would be advantagous for a team to just buy cars and engines from one of the big dogs. The expense of that must be too much for the 47 team.

 

[ted@economy]

Lots of teams buy cars and engines from the 'big dogs' and they get exactly the same equipment that the big name drivers get . The difference is in what they do with that equipment . When the differences on a mile and a half track are tenths of a second it's very little things that make a difference . A top name crew chief like Todd Berrier might bring you a tenth and a top driver like Kurt Busch might bring you a tenth , all of a sudden ,you move up fifteen spots .

 

[3wideinturn1]

Labonte is a past champion. I think he should be treated like one, but yes he has for sure been off pace for awhile. I don't think he "sucks", I think he was better in older gen cars. Maybe he just isn't trying that much anymore.

The thing is that most past champions bow out gracefully after their time has passed. B Labonte has hung around way too long to be treated with white gloves, and I think he will be brushed aside shortly.

 

[ted@economy]

The thing is that most past champions bow out gracefully after their time has passed. B Labonte has hung around way too long to be treated with white gloves, and I think he will be brushed aside shortly.

Too bad it's not that simple , boot out the forty something driver and put in the eighteen exciting one.Trouble is the sponsor won't go along . The older driver ticks all the boxes for the sponsor while the kid wrecks race cars and gives nothing back to the sponsor.The fans like the kids , but the sponsors pay the bills .

 

[ToyYoda]

The thing is that most past champions bow out gracefully after their time has passed. B Labonte has hung around way too long to be treated with white gloves, and I think he will be brushed aside shortly.

Bobby Labonte certainly isn't the first former champion to hang around too long. Anybody remember Richard Petty's last few years? Or Darrell Waltrip struggling to make races in the #66 K-Mart car? Or Bill Elliott making laps with the Wood Brothers? Or Dale Jarrett at MWR? Just to name a few.

 

[Zerkfitting]

The driver makes a bigger difference on a road course.

 

[StandOnIt]

Most of the younger fans get racing confused with stick and ball. those athletes for the most part have short careers, and are forgotten quickly by the new next big draft pick. I watched or read about those drivers before there was TV coverage that Yota posted. A.J. Mario, Parnelli, Fred Lorenzen, on and on. Would be a paragraph or two about the race and their picture. those were my heros. Bobby Labonte I have never been a fan, his brother Terry, different story. But I am not going to trash the guy. He is probably pretty much thru with cup level racing and he will fade away like all the above, to be replaced by the Larson's, Elliott's, and the Blaney's. not quickly enough for some, but he and his brother, soft spoken gentleman from Texas, helped build Nascar into what it is today.

 

[ted@economy]

It's going to happen quickly to some more stars . Tony , Matt ,Biff and Gordon are well past the big 4 oh .

 

[Reck]

It's going to happen quickly to some more stars . Tony , Matt ,Biff and Gordon are well past the big 4 oh .

I think drivers like Tony and Gordon have more time because they got more talent then those you mention.

But it comes to been competitive. Loving the sport to much is one thing but sticking to it even though you know you're not worth a sack of potato out in the track anymore is a hindrance.

You could be 50 and if you are competitive and and running for top 10s I dont have a problem with you other wise move on dude.

Jeff Gordon has said this many times. The minute he feels like an object out in the way and is not competing up to his standards that's when he'll retire.

 

[3wideinturn1]

Too bad it's not that simple , boot out the forty something driver and put in the eighteen exciting one.Trouble is the sponsor won't go along . The older driver ticks all the boxes for the sponsor while the kid wrecks race cars and gives nothing back to the sponsor.The fans like the kids , but the sponsors pay the bills .

Of course it's not that simple but surely there aren't any sponsors lining up to have B Labonte drive their car at this point. If older driver's who can or have won in the past were such a hot commodity, then guys like Newman wouldn't have any trouble getting a fully funded ride. Furthermore there are some young drivers that are providing great sponsor returns, albeit not many. There seems to be a new crop of young drivers who are becoming far more attractive than the current veterans. I'm thinking of guys like the Dillon bros who haven't necessarily set the world on fire but have given great returns to their sponsors. I think potential sponsors are looking for the total package, they want a guy who can win now but is also very marketable and can be their face.

 

[3wideinturn1]

Bobby Labonte certainly isn't the first former champion to hang around too long. Anybody remember Richard Petty's last few years? Or Darrell Waltrip struggling to make races in the #66 K-Mart car? Or Bill Elliott making laps with the Wood Brothers? Or Dale Jarrett at MWR? Just to name a few.

Certainly not the first and not the last either. I'm likely not as well versed on the history of past champions as yourself but it seems to me that B Labonte has been running at the back of the pack for 10 years now. I know some of those guys did it for a year or two but had any of them hung around as long as B Labonte? I don't know the answer, perhaps you could comment on that?

 

[WhiningSmoke]

Labonte should've retired in 2008 at the latest.

 

[ToyYoda]

Certainly not the first and not the last either. I'm likely not as well versed on the history of past champions as yourself but it seems to me that B Labonte has been running at the back of the pack for 10 years now. I know some of those guys did it for a year or two but had any of them hung around as long as B Labonte? I don't know the answer, perhaps you could comment on that?

From what I can recall, DW stopped being competitive around '94 or '95, and retired in 2000 (although he did have a couple decent runs subbing for Steve Park at DEI in '98). Bill Elliott was competitive all the way up until '03 when he left Evernham. He was supposed to retire then, but came back here and there and never really was a factor. DJ should have retired when he and Yates parted ways, that last year and 5 races he spent with MWR was hard to watch. As for Petty, I didn't start following NASCAR until '85 or '86, and he retired in '92, and I can't remember him ever being much of a factor.

 

[StandOnIt]

I don't think Gordon is going to hang around much longer out of that group above. Been racing cars since he was old enough to crawl in one.

Certainly not the first and not the last either. I'm likely not as well versed on the history of past champions as yourself but it seems to me that B Labonte has been running at the back of the pack for 10 years now. I know some of those guys did it for a year or two but had any of them hung around as long as B Labonte? I don't know the answer, perhaps you could comment on that?

Bobby Labonte has been pretty much a wheel holder all of his career, only been in the top ten 7 out of 22 years. Compared to Petty or D.W. where the last 5 or 6 years they weren't competitive. Labonte has been running in the 20's and 30's almost half of his career. He has a past champion's provisional that almost guarantees whoever the team he drives for will be in the show.

 

[WhiningSmoke]

I don't think Gordon is going to hang around much longer out of that group above. Been racing cars since he was old enough to crawl in one.

Bobby Labonte has been pretty much a wheel holder all of his career, only been in the top ten 7 out of 22 years. Compared to Petty or D.W. where the last 5 or 6 years they weren't competitive. Labonte has been running in the 20's and 30's almost half of his career. He has a past champion's provisional that almost guarantees whoever the team he drives for will be in the show.

That's not really that bad considering he was once in the top ten 7 out of 12 years.

 

[StandOnIt]

That's not really that bad considering he was once in the top ten 7 out of 12 years.

Guess we throw out the other 12 eh?

 

[dpkimmel2001]

Bobby was a great driver in his day. You may not have been around to witness it but it doesn't change that fact regardless of how you look at it. Like most others before him, production fell off as time went by. More power to him. If he's able to secure a ride I'm sure he'll make the Bobby Labonte fans out there happy. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[ted@economy]

.......Jeff Gordon has said this many times. The minute he feels like an object out in the way and is not competing up to his standards that's when he'll retire.

I'm pretty certain that is Bobby's plan too.

 

[3wideinturn1]

From what I can recall, DW stopped being competitive around '94 or '95, and retired in 2000 (although he did have a couple decent runs subbing for Steve Park at DEI in '98). Bill Elliott was competitive all the way up until '03 when he left Evernham. He was supposed to retire then, but came back here and there and never really was a factor. DJ should have retired when he and Yates parted ways, that last year and 5 races he spent with MWR was hard to watch. As for Petty, I didn't start following NASCAR until '85 or '86, and he retired in '92, and I can't remember him ever being much of a factor.

Thanks ToyYoda, I'm not old enough to remember what was happening in the 80's and early 90's but pretty much the entire time I've been closely following the sport, B Labonte has been a back of the pack guy.

 

[Reck]

I'm pretty certain that is Bobby's plan too.

Except Bobby hasn't even been a threat for a top 15th in years now so apparently he forgot about the plan.

 

[Mayhem]

Yes the 47 is as bad as we think. AJ and Marcos are both very good road racers, whereas Labonte is just avg at Sonoma & WG. The rest of the tracks however are a different story, Neither AJ nor Marcos were competitive on the intermediate tracks. AJ ran around 12th the one race, but that was because the caution flew catching a lot of cars on pit road when he had not yet pitted, when everything leveled out by the end of the race he finished 22nd.

Does anyone really believe that a stand alone team's chassis' and Triad motors should be beating the 4 HMS, 2 SHR, 3 JGR, 3 MWR, 3 RFR, 2 Penske, 3 RCR, 2 EGR , 2 RPM or 1 FRR cars? That's 25 cars that week in week out have proven, better equipment. Take away the races the DNF's for engine/accidents and Bobby finishes in the low 20's usually.

Is Bobby too old? Maybe. Is he the reason JTG isn't competitive? No.

 

[StandOnIt]

Welcome Meyhem

 

[Allenbaba]

Lots of teams buy cars and engines from the 'big dogs' and they get exactly the same equipment that the big name drivers get . The difference is in what they do with that equipment . When the differences on a mile and a half track are tenths of a second it's very little things that make a difference . A top name crew chief like Todd Berrier might bring you a tenth and a top driver like Kurt Busch might bring you a tenth , all of a sudden ,you move up fifteen spots .

True in FRR case...but while a top driver brings 1/10 and a top crew chief brings 1/10, millions and millions of $$$$ put into r&d of how to set up the equipment each week will find you a few whole seconds more. That's why the big dogs will continue to eat the little guys' lunches regardless of personnel. B Labonte would make the chase in the 48 - no doubt in my mind.

 

[Lazyking]

Yes the 47 is as bad as we think. AJ and Marcos are both very good road racers, whereas Labonte is just avg at Sonoma & WG. The rest of the tracks however are a different story, Neither AJ nor Marcos were competitive on the intermediate tracks. AJ ran around 12th the one race, but that was because the caution flew catching a lot of cars on pit road when he had not yet pitted, when everything leveled out by the end of the race he finished 22nd.

Does anyone really believe that a stand alone team's chassis' and Triad motors should be beating the 4 HMS, 2 SHR, 3 JGR, 3 MWR, 3 RFR, 2 Penske, 3 RCR, 2 EGR , 2 RPM or 1 FRR cars? That's 25 cars that week in week out have proven, better equipment. Take away the races the DNF's for engine/accidents and Bobby finishes in the low 20's usually.

Is Bobby too old? Maybe. Is he the reason JTG isn't competitive? No.

Spot on

 

[ted@economy]

Yes the 47 is as bad as we think. AJ and Marcos are both very good road racers, whereas Labonte is just avg at Sonoma & WG. The rest of the tracks however are a different story, Neither AJ nor Marcos were competitive on the intermediate tracks. AJ ran around 12th the one race, but that was because the caution flew catching a lot of cars on pit road when he had not yet pitted, when everything leveled out by the end of the race he finished 22nd.

Does anyone really believe that a stand alone team's chassis' and Triad motors should be beating the 4 HMS, 2 SHR, 3 JGR, 3 MWR, 3 RFR, 2 Penske, 3 RCR, 2 EGR , 2 RPM or 1 FRR cars? That's 25 cars that week in week out have proven, better equipment. Take away the races the DNF's for engine/accidents and Bobby finishes in the low 20's usually.

Is Bobby too old? Maybe. Is he the reason JTG isn't competitive? No.

Well said Mayhem , welcome to the forum.

 

[BOWTIE GUY]

Bobby was a great driver in his day. You may not have been around to witness it but it doesn't change that fact regardless of how you look at it. Like most others before him, production fell off as time went by. More power to him. If he's able to secure a ride I'm sure he'll make the Bobby Labonte fans out there happy. Nothing wrong with that.

he was not a great driver, he was a ok driver that won a championship because he drove for JGR.