Is the COT a fail?

been saying this chit for years now, glad someone feels the same as i
 
I agree and disagree.

Anyone who has been involved in auto racing of any type knows You can never make it Cheaper, Competition breeds Cost simple as that. The only way to make Racing Cheaper is to take away all the teams money, because if they have money their going to spend it trying to improve.

The COT car is safer there's absolutely No Doubt about it, Good Job NASCAR.

The Raceing?
Since they got rid of that damn wing it's improved.
But looking back on 2011 I'd say turning the drivers loose, getting rid of questionable cautions and bringing in double file restarts has brought the racing back!
 
FlFlash said:
I agree and disagree.

Anyone who has been involved in auto racing of any type knows You can never make it Cheaper, Competition breeds Cost simple as that. The only way to make Racing Cheaper is to take away all the teams money, because if they have money their going to spend it trying to improve.

The COT car is safer there's absolutely No Doubt about it, Good Job NASCAR.

The Raceing?
Since they got rid of that damn wing it's improved.
But looking back on 2011 I'd say turning the drivers loose, getting rid of questionable cautions and bringing in double file restarts has brought the racing back!
Click to expand...

car were safe in 1988 not quite as safe but still safe
 
FlFlash said:
The COT car is safer there's absolutely No Doubt about it, Good Job NASCAR.

The Raceing?
Since they got rid of that damn wing it's improved.
But looking back on 2011 I'd say turning the drivers loose, getting rid of questionable cautions and bringing in double file restarts has brought the racing back!
Click to expand...

+1
 








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Looks Pretty Damm Safe To Me Listen To Speed At The Time

Thanks NASCAR Good Damm Job
 
Some of those points have nothing to do with the COT.


There is no doubt that you need less cars in the COT stable. If things like custom brake venting matter or violate the COT goal, then just make everybody run a standard universal system. But then folks would complain about that reaction. I enjoyed the added factor of needing to save the brakes at Martinsville anyway.


The racing is better than the twisted sister era. That era was more aero dependent and more aero push cursed. A crushed panel hurt you more then.


The COT is generic, and the brand is more abstract. Hopefully the new 2013 styles will help. But the COT in reality shouldn't hurt those wanting differences. Nascar has been altering rules to steer manufacturing parity a long time, long before the COT.
 
Really, what difference does it make? As a fan of racing, I enjoy watching all sorts of different looking cars racing. Personally, I prefer stock "looking" cars, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. A race is a race, is a race.
 
It Doesn't Matter
What Matters To Me Is That The Sactioned Body Of Nascar Are Nothing But Bull Chit Liers Past And Present
 
The old cars weren't safe enough for Sr.

Just sayin'.
 
What Did Nascar Do Of Any Importance When Petty And Allison Got Killed


Name 1
 
fastfordfan said:
What Did Nascar Do Of Any Importance When Petty And Allison Got Killed


Name 1
Click to expand...

I don't remember what they did as a result of Clifford Allison's death but they instituted a steering wheel kill switch in the wake of Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin's death. Later in that same year they ran a restrictor plate @ New Hampshire to cut down on the entrance speed into the turns. Jeff Burton led every lap in that race. One of the worst races I ever watched.

To say that the COT is not a safer race car is complete BS IMO. It's proven its worth many times over.
 
Smaller spoiler and softer springs is a small move in the right direction.....away from what's REALLY hurting the racing and raising costs. AERO DEPENDANCE.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
To say that the COT is not a safer race car is complete BS IMO. It's proven its worth many times over.
Click to expand...

Sh!t Howdy! Just as Sadler after his "incident" at Pocono. The COT is far, far safer that previous versions.

That being said, I hate the splitter and the front-end suspension stuff!
 
SpeedPagan said:
The old cars weren't safe enough for Sr.

Just sayin'.
Click to expand...


I can see the point. But the Lajoie seat and HANS may have helped Dale more than a COT.

He wanted his steat mounted so that he was in an extreme angle. He probably didn't keep his belts as tight as he needed in this case, that along with open face may have enabled better visibility, and allowed for even greater moves on the track.


I was a Dale fan not a hater, and I don't want to be too graphic. But the seat, mount and belt settings contributed the most to the basal skull fracture imo.


I want to respect Dale, and racing is dangerous. I love the courage he had, and the memories, but the wreck itself still involved some unusual factors imo.
 
thumbnail9.jpg


Here's a pic of the interior of Earnhardts car notice the differances in it and a current COT car.
 
Greg said:
I can see the point. But the Lajoie seat and HANS may have helped Dale more than a COT.

He wanted his steat mounted so that he was in an extreme angle. He probably didn't keep his belts as tight as he needed in this case, that along with open face may have enabled better visibility, and allowed for even greater moves on the track.


I was a Dale fan not a hater, and I don't want to be too graphic. But the seat, mount and belt settings contributed the most to the basal skull fracture imo.


I want to respect Dale, and racing is dangerous. I love the courage he had, and the memories, but the wreck itself still involved some unusual factors imo.
Click to expand...


Dale Earnhardt accident investigation link.
 
must have mised that post
who said the cot was not safe
 
I would love to go back to the days when every make of car looked different on the track and you could tell a chevy from a ford . But no way could I stand to listen to the whining and complaining from fans every time one make got an advantage over another make . It was an awful time .If nothing else , the COT has quieted those complaining cry babies.
 
SpeedPagan said:
The old cars weren't safe enough for Sr.

Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

Or
Tony Roper, Kenny Irwin Jr.,Adam Petty, John Nemechek, Rodney Orr, Neil Bonnett, Clifford Allison, JD McDuffie, Grant Adcox, Rick Baldwin, Terry Schoonover, Bruce Jacobi, Ricky Knotts.........
 
Racing is not safe anyway you look at it. Sure the COT is somewhat safer, but in my opinion the Safer barriers and HANS device have made the biggest difference.
 
YEP!

SAFER and HANS FTW!

Kinda sounds like a Las Vegas Magic Act, don't it?

Ladies and Gents, please welcome to the stage... Safer and Hans!!
 
FlFlash said:
Or
Tony Roper, Kenny Irwin Jr.,Adam Petty, John Nemechek, Rodney Orr, Neil Bonnett, Clifford Allison, JD McDuffie, Grant Adcox, Rick Baldwin, Terry Schoonover, Bruce Jacobi, Ricky Knotts.........
Click to expand...

people die EVERY DAY
 
mayby if good job nascar had done something earlier some might still be alive
 
Drivers appear to be safer in the COT. We've seen some vicious crashes yet not one serious life threatening injury. Don't know if we could say the same if those exact same crashes had happened in the "old" car.

Racing has suffered, IMHO. Seems nobody, even Chad the Guru, can get a handle on handling, consistenly. The splitter has cut down how many tires? Sort of reminds me of the knives on a Roman chariot.

I'm all for driver safety but the COT sux as far a race car goes.
 
SST55 said:
Drivers appear to be safer in the COT. We've seen some vicious crashes yet not one serious life threatening injury. Don't know if we could say the same if those exact same crashes had happened in the "old" car.

Racing has suffered, IMHO. Seems nobody, even Chad the Guru, can get a handle on handling, consistenly. The splitter has cut down how many tires? Sort of reminds me of the knives on a Roman chariot.

I'm all for driver safety but the COT sux as far a race car goes.
Click to expand...
SST, I have a question to which I haven't received a definitive answer: What safety measure did they take with this new car that couldn't have been accomplished using the old car, or better yet, a car which actually looked like a car driven on the streets today? As far as I know they could have added the door safety panels and they could have moved the driver's seat to the right. What have they done to the chassis, safety-wise, which couldn't have been done to the the chassis using the old body?

Why did they have to make design a generic car which is essentially the same as any other with the exception of decals and very slight body modifications? I keep hearing and reading about how safe this new car is; couldn't they have made the old car just as safe?
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I don't remember what they did as a result of Clifford Allison's death but they instituted a steering wheel kill switch in the wake of Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin's death. Later in that same year they ran a restrictor plate @ New Hampshire to cut down on the entrance speed into the turns. Jeff Burton led every lap in that race. One of the worst races I ever watched.

To say that the COT is not a safer race car is complete BS IMO. It's proven its worth many times over.
Click to expand...

Three People Dead And We Get ANOTHER KILL SWITCH

GOOD JOB NASCAR
 
John Galt said:
SST, I have a question to which I haven't received a definitive answer: What safety measure did they take with this new car that couldn't have been accomplished using the old car, or better yet, a car which actually looked like a car driven on the streets today? As far as I know they could have added the door safety panels and they could have moved the driver's seat to the right. What have they done to the chassis, safety-wise, which couldn't have been done to the the chassis using the old body?

Why did they have to make design a generic car which is essentially the same as any other with the exception of decals and very slight body modifications? I keep hearing and reading about how safe this new car is; couldn't they have made the old car just as safe?
Click to expand...

The current car is larger than the old car. The rollcage is 2 in. taller and 4 in. wider and the driver sits 4 in. closer to the car’s centerline also the entire rollcage is 3" farther back on the chassis, that was done to increase crush space and allow easier driver exit after a crash. The car also has double frame rails—with one rail stacked on top of the other—on the left side and 4 in. of impact-absorbing foam in both doors. There's also a 360-degree containment tunnel for the driveshaft, the old cars only had a 1 1/4 x 1/8 driveshaft loop.
The exhaust runs through the body instead of under the driver, and exits on the right side, which diverts heat away from the driver and the refueling process. The fuel cell is smaller has a thicker container and thicker bladder walls with a smaller capacity (17.5 gallons, down from 22 gallons) and use's a flapper valve instead of the old leaky check ball set up.

The old car chassis was basicly unchanged from the mid 70's it was time for a clean sheet redesign and it would have been impossible to incorperate most of the features into the old chassis.
As far as the Aerodynamics NASCAR went from having templates from all 4 manufactuars, to having only one supposedly to cut cost and aero tweaking......that did'nt work IMO.
 
FlFlash said:
The current car is larger than the old car. The rollcage is 2 in. taller and 4 in. wider and the driver sits 4 in. closer to the car’s centerline also the entire rollcage is 3" farther back on the chassis, that was done to increase crush space and allow easier driver exit after a crash. The car also has double frame rails—with one rail stacked on top of the other—on the left side and 4 in. of impact-absorbing foam in both doors. There's also a 360-degree containment tunnel for the driveshaft, the old cars only had a 1 1/4 x 1/8 driveshaft loop.
The exhaust runs through the body instead of under the driver, and exits on the right side, which diverts heat away from the driver and the refueling process. The fuel cell is smaller has a thicker container and thicker bladder walls with a smaller capacity (17.5 gallons, down from 22 gallons) and use's a flapper valve instead of the old leaky check ball set up.

The old car chassis was basicly unchanged from the mid 70's it was time for a clean sheet redesign and it would have been impossible to incorperate most of the features into the old chassis.
As far as the Aerodynamics NASCAR went from having templates from all 4 manufactuars, to having only one supposedly to cut cost and aero tweaking......that did'nt work IMO.
Click to expand...
FlFlash you have pointed out a lot of interesting information about the difference between these two different style cars. I hadn't realized how many changes they had made. Thank's for sharing that information.
 
Flash hit all the major points. If you look at a profile shot of the COT and the "old" car you can really see how the roof has been raised, the windshield isn't laid back as much. This makes the window opening a bit larger making it easier for the driver to get in and faster getting out if need be.

All frames at now "spec" frames, every one is the same no matter if build in-house or by a outside vendor. Each has it's own serial number now too after being insp and teched prior to a car being built around it.

As for the same-same visual. Ford and Merc ran basically the same car with just minor trim changes as did Chrysler with the Dodge and Plymouth. But GM ran Monte's, Gran Prix's, Olds and Buicks. No mistaking one for the other back then.

The basic concept of racing is to go fast and win. If one brand is producing more hp than the others why penalize them? The other brands need to step up to the plate and do their homework. Same with aero. Seems there is very slight minor differences in drag and downforce numbers now.

It won't be much longer before na$car issues spec cars.:sarcasm:
 
SST55 said:
The basic concept of racing is to go fast and win. If one brand is producing more hp than the others why penalize them? The other brands need to step up to the plate and do their homework. Same with aero. Seems there is very slight minor differences in drag and downforce numbers now.
Click to expand...
If only. Once again the cost of running a team or teams has entered the equation, meaning sponsorship. The days of one manufacturer having an edge on the others is over. All of the cars have some of the same templates with the exception of a few (front end etc.) I think that most of us old timers miss the days of being able to tell the different between makes. Remember those days when as a kid, you could look at a car and not only tell what make it was, but the year it was. Now days you might be able to tell what the make is, but probably not the year.

Cost, even competition etc. just to try and please everyone. Maybe in the end having spec cars, all exactly the same, will put racing back in the hands of the driver and crew. But of course, we are damned close to that now.
 
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