Is Ty Gibbs the most disliked champion?

Ty was very possibly the most disliked champion in a long time, maybe ever. His tragic sudden loss of his father puts all of this stuff way back off the table. His memory of that day will forever be tarnished, hurtful, hard.

Id like to see this topic pulled for now. We will never resolve it. Frankly Ty needs his family, his friends, time to grieve, recover, and let racing wait a while. Prayers that he finds comfort in his strong faith, as we all do with the burden too heavy to bear.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not telling you how Ty has to feel, I'm telling you how he needs to act. Ty has chosen to participate in a very public sport where millions of dollars are at stake and where every move he makes is public and his actions reflect on a whole company, which happens to be owned by his family, which now even shorter on family members. Grieving has nothing to do with conducting himself as a leader. Nobody is telling him not to grieve and not to take some time and process what has happened. But, Ty has the opportunity to step up and carry on the work of his father and uncle and I think he will find that it helps with the grief and he will become a better person for it. If that is considered "toxic masculinity" then I have lost all hope for humanity.
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Your implication is that Ty has to step up and be the man of the house. Right now, Ty needs to process, and grieve. He hasn't even had the time to process this. Facts.

This isn't the time for the conversation. And the reason I say it breeds toxic masculinity is because we live in a country that expects men to just brush off tragedy and "be strong."

There's no weakness in compassion. There's no weakness in grieving. There's no weakness in being sad.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Your implication is that Ty has to step up and be the man of the house. Right now, Ty needs to process, and grieve. He hasn't even had the time to process this. Facts.

This isn't the time for the conversation. And the reason I say it breeds toxic masculinity is because we live in a country that expects men to just brush off tragedy and "be strong."

There's no weakness in compassion. There's no weakness in grieving. There's no weakness in being sad.
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What are you going on about? Jackman didn't imply any of this. I think you are interpreting it wrong and hearing what you want to hear.

The season is over. Ty isn't racing for a few months, nor will he be in the public spotlight for a while. He can process and grieve and be sad for as long as he wants, and nobody is suggesting otherwise. I think Jackman is saying it's a life changing event that could help him grow and mature and change the way he carries himself and goes about his business in the future. That has absolutely nothing to do with mourning a tragic loss or dealing with grief.
 
Conover said:
Ty was very possibly the most disliked champion in a long time, maybe ever. His tragic sudden loss of his father puts all of this stuff way back off the table. His memory of that day will forever be tarnished, hurtful, hard.

Id like to see this topic pulled for now. We will never resolve it. Frankly Ty needs his family, his friends, time to grieve, recover, and let racing wait a while. Prayers that he finds comfort in his strong faith, as we all do with the burden too heavy to bear.
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Lots of wisdom in this post.

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Ty already spent the entire week groveling for forgiveness over Martinsville, so he is already on the way to becoming a better man. Let's let things cool off in the off season and maybe reserve any judgement until he has time to recover from all this. I've seen enough of the guy to know I don't like him much, but he has apologized so many times that maybe he has already turned the corner.

I know he is not well liked, but why not give him a chance, and if he screws that up then we can burn him at the stake.
 
Doc Austin said:
Ty already spent the entire week groveling for forgiveness over Martinsville, so he is already on the way to becoming a better man. Let's let things cool off in the off season and maybe reserve any judgement until he has time to recover from all this. I've seen enough of the guy the know I don't like him much, but he has apologized so many times that maybe he has already turned the corner.

I know he is not well liked, but why not give him a chance, and if he screws that up then we can burn him at the stake.
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I think Ty sincerely regrets his actions at Martinsville.

On the track and off the track are different things. Ty's still maturing. And, on the track, he's in the heat of battle. He just needs to work on controlling his emotions in the heat of the moment a little better. That's hard to do with this level of intensity. I mean, we also saw Bubba Wallace completely snap this year, and while his actions were not justifiable, there's a lot of pressure on him.

As for some of Ty's actions, I'll just put it like this:

Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. intentionally wrecked a championship rival to win an ARCA championship in 2008. Ultimately, Justin Allgaier won, but Stenhouse's actions NEVER got the type of criticism they should have. Wrecking someone for a championship is a malignant foul, no matter who that someone is.

Sam Mayer did the same thing to win a K&N Championship a few years back, wrecked his championship rival I think on a restart at Dover. And he's got a spotless reputation with the fanbase.

Back to Ty, he's just got to work on how he handles pressures a little better, and he'll get there. I mean, Kyle Busch used to be a loose canon in his earlier years. He embraced the villain role while also maturing as a person.



I've said this before and I'll say it again. The NASCAR age limits are too low. We're asking literal teenagers to be professional athletes in this sport. We're expecting people, at 14 and 15 years old, to handle adult situations. And if a 15-year-old says something stupid, look out because here comes the morality police because no 15-year-old has ever been a dumbass before. We're putting kids and teenagers out on tracks with grown ass adults and creating situations that can't be dealt with in adult ways (and I'm not suggesting fighting is the only way to handle a situation).

NASCAR drivers can compete well into their 40s or beyond, as we see with Kevin Harvick now, as we saw with Mark Martin in 2009, and Rusty Wallace, and Ricky Rudd, and Dale Earnhardt who was still competitive prior to his fatal crash, and countless others over the years. Why have a system that forces them to rush into Cup by the time they're in their early-20s. Ross Chastain is only 29. Josh Berry is 32, and a few years ago, people were saying he was too old to get a shot. A lot of other drivers, over the years, have given up because they aren't "discovered" by the time they're 20.

I genuinely believe the minimum age for Cup should be around 24-25, 21 for Xfinity, 18 for Trucks/ARCA, and 16 for Late Models.

Hell, INEX just dropped the minimum age for Legends to ****** 10, and like 7 for a Bandolero. We've had kids around here in full-size Late Models before their 10th birthday.

It's obscene. It's reckless. It's immoral.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I think Ty sincerely regrets his actions at Martinsville.

On the track and off the track are different things. Ty's still maturing. And, on the track, he's in the heat of battle. He just needs to work on controlling his emotions in the heat of the moment a little better. That's hard to do with this level of intensity. I mean, we also saw Bubba Wallace completely snap this year, and while his actions were not justifiable, there's a lot of pressure on him.

As for some of Ty's actions, I'll just put it like this:

Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. intentionally wrecked a championship rival to win an ARCA championship in 2008. Ultimately, Justin Allgaier won, but Stenhouse's actions NEVER got the type of criticism they should have. Wrecking someone for a championship is a malignant foul, no matter who that someone is.

Sam Mayer did the same thing to win a K&N Championship a few years back, wrecked his championship rival I think on a restart at Dover. And he's got a spotless reputation with the fanbase.

Back to Ty, he's just got to work on how he handles pressures a little better, and he'll get there. I mean, Kyle Busch used to be a loose canon in his earlier years. He embraced the villain role while also maturing as a person.



I've said this before and I'll say it again. The NASCAR age limits are too low. We're asking literal teenagers to be professional athletes in this sport. We're expecting people, at 14 and 15 years old, to handle adult situations. And if a 15-year-old says something stupid, look out because here comes the morality police because no 15-year-old has ever been a dumbass before. We're putting kids and teenagers out on tracks with grown ass adults and creating situations that can't be dealt with in adult ways (and I'm not suggesting fighting is the only way to handle a situation).

NASCAR drivers can compete well into their 40s or beyond, as we see with Kevin Harvick now, as we saw with Mark Martin in 2009, and Rusty Wallace, and Ricky Rudd, and Dale Earnhardt who was still competitive prior to his fatal crash, and countless others over the years. Why have a system that forces them to rush into Cup by the time they're in their early-20s. Ross Chastain is only 29. Josh Berry is 32, and a few years ago, people were saying he was too old to get a shot. A lot of other drivers, over the years, have given up because they aren't "discovered" by the time they're 20.

I genuinely believe the minimum age for Cup should be around 24-25, 21 for Xfinity, 18 for Trucks/ARCA, and 16 for Late Models.

Hell, INEX just dropped the minimum age for Legends to ****** 10, and like 7 for a Bandolero. We've had kids around here in full-size Late Models before their 10th birthday.

It's obscene. It's reckless. It's immoral.
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It's immoral???
 
Daytripper said:
It's immoral???
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Yes, it's immoral.

I could sit here all day and write an entire season of American Horror Story about what some of these kids go through in the social media age. And it's only getting worse in the post-COVID society of "I do what I want, **** you."

There were people on Twitter telling Ty that they hope he also dies. Kid loses his dad and is basically being told on Twitter to kill himself. Absolutely disgusting.

Longtime race officials are leaving the sport in droves right now over the abuse we deal with on a weekly, sometimes daily, basis. You have to have thick skin to be in racing, but even some of the thickest-skinned individuals have had enough.

Think about how this type of stuff is processed by a 13-year-old who is racing in Bandoleros because they wanted to have some fun. These kids commit suicide over the type of things that are said to them on social media by trolls and ****posters who shouldn't even be allowed to have access to the internet.

One girl who raced with us this year, her parents were telling me about how she cried herself to sleep some nights because of the things that were said to/about her by another driver's parents. Grown-ass adults bullying children on the internet. I actually ended up chirping at one of them who decided to log on to Facebook and come into my house with that ****.

Another young lady who races with us went through similar ****. Not anywhere near as bad as what happened to the first.

Kamila Valieva had a literal mental breakdown in front of the entire world, live in 4K, at the Winter Olympics. The adults, charged with her protection, failed her. The IOC allowed her to compete when they shouldn't have. The media made her the villain instead of the ROC and IOC. And when she had her breakdown and was in tears, the adults turned their backs on her. It was actually her Olympic rivals that comforted her.

This stuff is obscene.

These are kids. Ty Gibbs is only 20-years-old, has lost a father and an uncle, and keyboard warriors with an iPhone and an internet connection are wishing death on this kid. Well, in their cases, probably prepaid $20 Android phones, because they're probably broke and miserable themselves and only get their joy out of spreading misery to others.
 
I remember seeing a funeral procession as a child. Back in the day when you saw those long processions of cars they all had their lights on with law enforcement escorting them to the cemetery. In those days all of the cars in the opposite lanes would stop to give everyone in the funeral group the right of way.

As a boy I asked my Dad about it all while we were stopped and waiting for one of those processions. I was to young to really understand much about funerals but my dad wanted to teach me something and what he told me stuck with me.

He told me it was all about respect and that you should always show respect to those during a time of bereavement. That you should avoid saying anything bad about the deceased and to show the same type of respect for the grieving family and friends. He did tell me that there would be times when you may not be able to say anything nice about people in the group and in those cases to at least avoid bringing up any negatives and to remain respectful for those that are grieving.

I haven't always lived up to everything my dad taught me but I do try to be respectful and think Ty and the Coy Gibbs family deserve no less during this time.
 
Lack of home training as Judge Joe Brown says. Some people are incapable or didn't have the opportunity to learn about higher emotions. I do feel sorry for them. I too was taught as a little tike while standing up in the front seat, my favorite position while riding btw, respect for the funeral procession.
 
Life teaches in the most peculiar of ways and times. My father taught me nothing about being responsible for emotions, because he was not capable of being responsible for his own, and to this day, he just can't handle himself. I inherited (or probably learned) his temper and this belief that anger, sadness and fear are unacceptable - and it took a long time to unlearn that. My mother did what she could for us, but really just wanted to protect us from dad. Now, she's a kick ass involved mother who is as great as she's ever been within herself.

If not for a bit of self reflection, a turn to spirituality, as well as my education and career choice, I dont think I would have learned to be sensitive and aware of my own emotions, and other's emotions either.

Parents aren't always the best teachers. And that's okay. But sometimes non-familial relationships can help us grow in a variety of ways our homes never could.

I think Ty may be starting to go through that now. The internal world can be just as important, and for some people, it's a massive world.

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AndyMarquisLive said:
Yes, it's immoral.

I could sit here all day and write an entire season of American Horror Story about what some of these kids go through in the social media age. And it's only getting worse in the post-COVID society of "I do what I want, **** you."

There were people on Twitter telling Ty that they hope he also dies. Kid loses his dad and is basically being told on Twitter to kill himself. Absolutely disgusting.

Longtime race officials are leaving the sport in droves right now over the abuse we deal with on a weekly, sometimes daily, basis. You have to have thick skin to be in racing, but even some of the thickest-skinned individuals have had enough.

Think about how this type of stuff is processed by a 13-year-old who is racing in Bandoleros because they wanted to have some fun. These kids commit suicide over the type of things that are said to them on social media by trolls and ****posters who shouldn't even be allowed to have access to the internet.

One girl who raced with us this year, her parents were telling me about how she cried herself to sleep some nights because of the things that were said to/about her by another driver's parents. Grown-ass adults bullying children on the internet. I actually ended up chirping at one of them who decided to log on to Facebook and come into my house with that ****.

Another young lady who races with us went through similar ****. Not anywhere near as bad as what happened to the first.

Kamila Valieva had a literal mental breakdown in front of the entire world, live in 4K, at the Winter Olympics. The adults, charged with her protection, failed her. The IOC allowed her to compete when they shouldn't have. The media made her the villain instead of the ROC and IOC. And when she had her breakdown and was in tears, the adults turned their backs on her. It was actually her Olympic rivals that comforted her.

This stuff is obscene.

These are kids. Ty Gibbs is only 20-years-old, has lost a father and an uncle, and keyboard warriors with an iPhone and an internet connection are wishing death on this kid. Well, in their cases, probably prepaid $20 Android phones, because they're probably broke and miserable themselves and only get their joy out of spreading misery to others.
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The world is not a fair and happy place. Kids need to learn how to deal with that. To try and shelter them from it is a disservice. Racing is an adult sport and if the child is not ready to be in it and handle what is going on in it the parents should not allow their kids in it until they are mature enough to handle it. You want to blame society for parents not parenting.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
There were people on Twitter telling Ty that they hope he also dies. Kid loses his dad and is basically being told on Twitter to kill himself. Absolutely disgusting.
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Social media is pure toxicity. Ty has enough to deal with right now without internet bozos trying to make it worse.

Personally I isolate mytself from the toxicity by only posting on places where the people are chill, like here.
 
Daytripper said:
The world is not a fair and happy place. Kids need to learn how to deal with that. To try and shelter them from it is a disservice. Racing is an adult sport and if the child is not ready to be in it and handle what is going on in it the parents should not allow their kids in it until they are mature enough to handle it. You want to blame society for parents not parenting.
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Adults don't bully children. That's kind of the deal. Or it was the deal until America lost its collective mind after the pandemic. No kid should have to deal with this, and saying "life's not fair" is simply excusing it.

This is me talking, and I don't even like kids. I don't like kids here or there, I don't like kids anywhere. I don't like kids in a bar. I don't like kids in a car. I don't like kids on a plane. I don't like kids on a train.

But this is unacceptable. We have sanctioning bodies allowing kids to race at super young ages and putting the pressure of "Joey Logano raced with us and became a Cup champion, you will too" instead of letting them be kids. And those sanctioning bodies should be charged with the protection of these kids just as much as the parents.

If bullying happens in schools, it's not just "up to the parents" to deal with it, but also the school. The old saying about taking a village comes to mind. When kids get gunned down by madmen in schools, most of us want something to be done to protect them. Even if we don't agree on how, we know it's not acceptable and should never happen.

No matter how much you want to pull out "life's not fair," kids and teenagers are vulnerable and are volatile emotionally. This sport should be giving them time to mature so they can handle the pressures of the grueling 40-week NASCAR schedule.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Adults don't bully children. That's kind of the deal. Or it was the deal until America lost its collective mind after the pandemic. No kid should have to deal with this, and saying "life's not fair" is simply excusing it.

This is me talking, and I don't even like kids. I don't like kids here or there, I don't like kids anywhere. I don't like kids in a bar. I don't like kids in a car. I don't like kids on a plane. I don't like kids on a train.

But this is unacceptable. We have sanctioning bodies allowing kids to race at super young ages and putting the pressure of "Joey Logano raced with us and became a Cup champion, you will too" instead of letting them be kids. And those sanctioning bodies should be charged with the protection of these kids just as much as the parents.

If bullying happens in schools, it's not just "up to the parents" to deal with it, but also the school. The old saying about taking a village comes to mind. When kids get gunned down by madmen in schools, most of us want something to be done to protect them. Even if we don't agree on how, we know it's not acceptable and should never happen.

No matter how much you want to pull out "life's not fair," kids and teenagers are vulnerable and are volatile emotionally. This sport should be giving them time to mature so they can handle the pressures of the grueling 40-week NASCAR schedule.
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The sanctioning body should be charged with protecting the children is ridiculous. This is professional league, not little league. The people responsible for the children are the parents. Nobody else.
 
Daytripper said:
The sanctioning body should be charged with protecting the children is ridiculous. This is professional league, not little league. The people responsible for the children are the parents. Nobody else.
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Bandoleros aren't professional league, they're the very definition of little league. Legends racing has classifications for kids, including "Young Lions."

If an adult tries to physically intimidate a child off the track, or worse, whether it's online or in the pits, you're damn right the track, sanctioning body, or whoever else should step up to protect that kid. That's what real men do.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Bandoleros aren't professional league, they're the very definition of little league. Legends racing has classifications for kids, including "Young Lions."

If an adult tries to physically intimidate a child off the track, or worse, whether it's online or in the pits, you're damn right the track, sanctioning body, or whoever else should step up to protect that kid. That's what real men do.
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We were talking about nascar which is a professional league, now your just moving the goal posts.
 
Daytripper said:
We were talking about nascar which is a professional league, now your just moving the goal posts.
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All I said about NASCAR was that NASCAR should increase, not decrease, age limits. There was nothing wrong with having to wait to be 18 to run in the Truck Series.

"Sanctioning bodies" was always a reference to more than NASCAR. Legends and Bandolero racing have a sanctioning body, which is run by Speedway Motorsports.

Oh, and BTW, many of these sanctioning bodies (including NASCAR) police social media anyway. Maybe that policing should extend beyond "don't criticize us."
 
MRM said:
I think this discussion should be put on hold for a few weeks. The kid just lost his dad.
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The discussion wasnt really about him anymore, and I don't think he is reading it anyway. Regardless I have nothing else to say about the subject.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not telling you how Ty has to feel, I'm telling you how he needs to act. Ty has chosen to participate in a very public sport where millions of dollars are at stake and where every move he makes is public and his actions reflect on a whole company, which happens to be owned by his family, which now even shorter on family members. Grieving has nothing to do with conducting himself as a leader. Nobody is telling him not to grieve and not to take some time and process what has happened. But, Ty has the opportunity to step up and carry on the work of his father and uncle and I think he will find that it helps with the grief and he will become a better person for it. If that is considered "toxic masculinity" then I have lost all hope for humanity.
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His Dad was the VP and COO of a NASCAR Race Team, and you think a 20 year old Xfinity Champion should step up, and carry on his work? Come on man.
 
Tell you what....back on the topic of Ty as a hated champion....To each and every fan who throws full cans of beer at human beings....Kiss my ass. These idiots make our sport look stupid. Pull that **** at an NFL game, and you are going to jail.
 
....and another thing....This year's Cup Champion was booed almost as loudly as Ty. Maybe NASCAR Nation is filled with assholes?
 
Revman said:
Tell you what....back on the topic of Ty as a hated champion....To each and every fan who throws full cans of beer at human beings....Kiss my ass. These idiots make our sport look stupid. Pull that **** at an NFL game, and you are going to jail.
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They go to jail at NASCAR races also, not only that I've seen fans take matters in to their own hands and kick thier asses right in front of everybody in the stands but usually they get security and point them out.
 
Revman said:
Tell you what....back on the topic of Ty as a hated champion....To each and every fan who throws full cans of beer at human beings....Kiss my ass. These idiots make our sport look stupid. Pull that **** at an NFL game, and you are going to jail.
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What's this NFL thing you speak of???? Never heard of that racing series. Toyota only cars?

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Revman said:
Tell you what....back on the topic of Ty as a hated champion....To each and every fan who throws full cans of beer at human beings....Kiss my ass. These idiots make our sport look stupid. Pull that **** at an NFL game, and you are going to jail.
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Gotta agree here, boo all you want but throwing beer cans is just stupid and could easily hurt someone. It's really ridiculous that the tracks don't ban anyone doing that from ever returning.
 
Spotter22 said:
They go to jail at NASCAR races also, not only that I've seen fans take matters in to their own hands and kick thier asses right in front of everybody in the stands but usually they get security and point them out.
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I hope your right but with how much you see it I find it hard to believe.
 
Revman said:
....and another thing....This year's Cup Champion was booed almost as loudly as Ty. Maybe NASCAR Nation is filled with assholes?
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This is off topic about Ty. Going to let that rest awhile. But as an old race fan, for a very long time,it seems people like to boo more than cheer.
 
wi_racefan said:
For anyone at the time of winning their championship I can't think of any other driver that was more disliked by fans and drivers alike.

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He is the current heir apparent to that spot at JGR vacated by the last driver holding that title, Kyle Bush.
 
Daytripper said:
I hope your right but with how much you see it I find it hard to believe.
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I've seen it personally but in reality it's very rare that someone throws something on the track.
Daytripper said:
Gotta agree here, boo all you want but throwing beer cans is just stupid and could easily hurt someone. It's really ridiculous that the tracks don't ban anyone doing that from ever returning.
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They do. Most tracks have posted signs
 
Spotter22 said:
I've seen it personally but in reality it's very rare that someone throws something on the track.

They do. Most tracks have posted signs
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I wonder how much limiting what fans can carry into the track has something to do with that also. Must drunks don't want to let go of that much money to toss over the fence if they are buying concession beer lol.
 
StandOnIt said:
I wonder how much limiting what fans can carry into the track has something to do with that also. Must drunks don't want to let go of that much money to toss over the fence if they are buying concession beer lol.
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Aint that the truth!
 
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