"Jeff Gordon shouldn't have done that"

97forever

97forever

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Seems John Darby agreed with Greg after the full story was revealed of Gordon offering a 'deal' to Biffle then reneging on it.Biffle called it bull_ _ _ _ ,explained the deal that was offered,and said the next move was up to Gordon.(nascar.com,thatsracin.com)

Note to Greg:When they are used to having things handed to them,dont expect them to stick to their word.

Another great move Gordon.I used to at least respect your integrity.Now days you are making me pull for Jr. to blow back by you and re-take second.


What a shame.
 
If what Greg says is true I don't blame him for being upset, but it does seem that Jeff doesn't expect that he should operate on the same standard that he expects the other drivers to.
 
Originally posted by Oldgoat@Jul 21 2003, 06:39 AM
If what Greg says is true I don't blame him for being upset, but it does seem that Jeff doesn't expect that he should operate on the same standard that he expects the other drivers to.
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Maybe he doesn't think he has to because he's Jeff Gordan. Welcome to the board Oldgoat!
 
I heard about the "deal" about third hand, but what I heard was that Gordon said if he was close enough when caution came out, he would give him his lap back... He was NOT close enough. I watched a replay of them coming to the line - Gordon would have had to lock up all 4 and turn sideways to get slowed down enough to let him get by. At least that is what it looked like to me.

On a related subject, there seems to be more and more contact between cars outside of racing condition - the one discussed here and the Wallace - Stewart stuff. I think it is getting way out of hand.
 
I really dont see what was up Greg Biffles butt...I have seen this before...so why Is it a big deal now? I am just wondering.
 
The simple facts are: a car 1 lap down ran in to the leaders car intentional. Regardless of who is involved and what was said - this is somthing that can not be tolerated in race conditions. Biffle should be sat out for the next race. IMO
 
The simple facts are: a car 1 lap down ran in to the leaders car intentional. Regardless of who is involved and what was said - this is somthing that can not be tolerated in race conditions. Biffle should be sat out for the next race. IMO
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I agree 100%.
 
:wacko: If not keep them out of a few races, at the very least black them a few laps(aka: Kurt Busch, Daytona last year) or take those 25 points away .
 
If Gordon was gonna wheel and deal. The least the dipstick could do was to keep up his end of the deal. But considering it was J. Gordon. We could expect something like that.
 
Has anyone heard Jeff's side of this story? Besides with some of the drivers not heeding the gentlemens agreement the drivers are afraid to let the lapped cars around. Gregg should have stayed closer if he wanted around Jeff.
 
Originally posted by tkj24@Jul 21 2003, 07:55 PM
Has anyone heard Jeff's side of this story? Besides with some of the drivers not heeding the gentlemens agreement the drivers are afraid to let the lapped cars around. Gregg should have stayed closer if he wanted around Jeff.
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Im with ya! :cheers:
 
Originally posted by tkj24@Jul 21 2003, 09:55 PM
Has anyone heard Jeff's side of this story? Besides with some of the drivers not heeding the gentlemens agreement the drivers are afraid to let the lapped cars around. Gregg should have stayed closer if he wanted around Jeff.
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I think anything that Jeff has to say at this point is irrelevant. Like I said before, he raises hell about Robby's pass but not a peep from him about Jimmie's pass, and both were exactly the same situation.

I think more drivers and fans are seeing the hypocrisy that is there in Jeff's comments and are taking it at him concerning this issue. Note: Jeff Green was also upset with Jeff Gordon, not only Greg Biffle.
 
Well, Jeff Gordon is the best driver of modern times and Biffle couldve wrecked the field. If he spun out Gordon it couldve taken out a cluster of cars, just another example of Biffle's dipstick type moves. I have to commend Gordon for keeping him a lap down on that, because Jeff was racin someone and Biffle wouldnt have gotten that lap back during the race to the caution anyways.
 
On the subject this time.

Jeff Gordon,the best driver of modern times?A definition of modern times should be used to qualify that statement.The best since he arrived on the scene is possibly what you meant.But no,that is inaccurate as well considering his rookie year was not that outstanding.Perhaps his sophomore year then?Let's see.Nope two wins in that year.Not equal to Kurt Busch's or others sophomore year.So that leaves what?The best driver of the last 9 years or so?Maybe until the departure of Evernham.MAYBE if you ignore Earnhardt and Stewart.Maybe the best driver of 'modern times'...IF you consider a five or six year stretch to encompass all of 'modern times'.Otherwise,no.Just a very good driver with a lot of wins and four titles.And thats great...but hardly the best.

Now..IF Biffle spun out Jeff he could have wrecked half the field?IF is about the biggest word in any language.The fact is Jeff didn't spin.All 'what-if's' arent worth even typing.

Dipstick driving by Biffle?I respect Gollum being a Harvick fan too much to comment on that one.Let's just say ol' Kevin has never been accused of any 'dipstick' driving moves.That's also IF one considers Greg's move a 'dipstick' move.Apparently you do.


But apparently John Darby of Nascar didn't.Thus,no fine or penalty for Greg.There is where the matter rests.Greg bumped Jeff,no incident occured,no wrong doing was placed on Greg by NASCAR.End of story.
 
Well, I'm entitled to my own opinion and from my point of view that was a dipstick move by Biffle to shove Gordon up the track. Gordon had no obligation to give Biffle his lap back and I commend Jeff for doin that. Now, he is the best driver of modern times, 4 Championships, 60 something wins, 50 million dollars in earnings, there is no denying it. Now, Stewart yes he could also fit the bill, but Dale Jr. surely doesnt. You cant judge his career by his sophomore year, he won the Brickyard in that year yes and he won more races the next 3 years by dominating NASCAR, and yes he is doing great without Evernham. Well, that's it for me I'm going to sleep.
 
Originally posted by 97forever@Jul 21 2003, 09:13 PM
On the subject this time.

Jeff Gordon,the best driver of modern times?A definition of modern times should be used to qualify that statement.The best since he arrived on the scene is possibly what you meant.But no,that is inaccurate as well considering his rookie year was not that outstanding.Perhaps his sophomore year then?Let's see.Nope two wins in that year.Not equal to Kurt Busch's or others sophomore year.So that leaves what?The best driver of the last 9 years or so?Maybe until the departure of Evernham.MAYBE if you ignore Earnhardt and Stewart.Maybe the best driver of 'modern times'...IF you consider a five or six year stretch to encompass all of 'modern times'.Otherwise,no.Just a very good driver with a lot of wins and four titles.And thats great...but hardly the best.

Now..IF Biffle spun out Jeff he could have wrecked half the field?IF is about the biggest word in any language.The fact is Jeff didn't spin.All 'what-if's' arent worth even typing.

Dipstick driving by Biffle?I respect Gollum being a Harvick fan too much to comment on that one.Let's just say ol' Kevin has never been accused of any 'dipstick' driving moves.That's also IF one considers Greg's move a 'dipstick' move.Apparently you do.


But apparently John Darby of Nascar didn't.Thus,no fine or penalty for Greg.There is where the matter rests.Greg bumped Jeff,no incident occured,no wrong doing was placed on Greg by NASCAR.End of story.
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Well, your post reaks of hipocrisy. Let's see, "IF" you say? Well, have you heard Jeff's side of the story? NO, you haven't and you wouldn't care. So you are playing the "if" card only when it suits you. And if it were Jeff who did that to Biffle, you would be calling Jeff a whiner and calling for his license!

Deal or no deal, who cares. Biffle wasn't close enough for one and I really doubt that he "let" Gordon go ahead of him on the restart, hence the reason he was so far back when the caution flew.

Also, you stated that the Robby deal was the same as J.J.'s. Once again you are wrong. Robby passed Harvick who was waving and slowing down, Waltrip was doing nether of those plus J.J. was racing right next to him, not 5 car lengths back like Robby.

This is a non issue incident among many other ramming, bashing and crashing incidents that took place at that race, but guess what? They get no attention. Waltrip punted 2 cars, Ward Burton punted a car, Jr. punted Rusty, Rusty squeezed Stewart into the wall, then blames him! All of these are more worthy of debate than some racing deal gone awry, but hey, it involves Gordon, so let's milk the whiz out of it! Amazing.

The debate of "best ever" is ridiculous and never will be agreed upon, because it is based mostly on opinion. I would never say Gordon is or was the best ever, nor would I ever say it about anyone else.
 
Originally posted by Happy29@Jul 21 2003, 11:31 PM
Well, Jeff Gordon is the best driver of modern times and Biffle couldve wrecked the field. If he spun out Gordon it couldve taken out a cluster of cars, just another example of Biffle's dipstick type moves. I have to commend Gordon for keeping him a lap down on that, because Jeff was racin someone and Biffle wouldnt have gotten that lap back during the race to the caution anyways.
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I disagree. First of all I would not call Greg Biffle winning Daytona luck. Sure it was an upset, but not a win based on luck. Second, wether you win a race with fuel mileage or just flat out dominating, in the end, a win is a win. You get it not matter what happened during the race, the trophy is still there.

I have seen many replays of the incident, Stewart slowed down, Biffle already had passed him and Green was in the process, and Jeff Gordon just kept motoring away. Im sorry but if he had a prior engagement with Biffle then he should honor it. It was a classless move by Jeff Gordon. These types of moves, as well as whining about the Robby Gordon incident and not saying a word about the Jimmie Johnson incident, and himself being guilty about the gentleman's rule, have proven that he is a hypocrit and drivers will start noticing this, if they havent already, and will loose respect towards Jeff Gordon.

You claim that Biffle could have caused an incident, but he didnt did he? No. You claim that Biffle should have been fined. If thats the case the Rusty and Stewart should have been fined as well, correct? And to top it off, we quoted from Nascar that the officials agreed with Biffle. So why are we arguing here? Biffle was correct in Nascar's point of view, and thats what matters.

Happy29, I think your hatred for Biffle is clouding your judgement.
 
Ward Burton didnt punt a guy...Mike Wallace I believe was loose and Ward tapped him when he moved up track. I agree, but dont blame things on others...or try to start something on them.
 
Some issues I want to discuss in the following two posters:

Happy29:
1) Sure Jeff Gordon can put up great numbers like that, but you arent answering the question why did he put up those numbers? The answer is because as soon as Jeff Gordon came into Winston Cup Hendrick and DuPont provided him with all the resources available, they instantly had the biggest budget of any team. Sure when you have an extra $10M to spend over any other team in the series you will have an advantage. You see how Jeff is struggling to win 3 races in a season now? Its because everyone has caught up. I compare Jeff Gordon's success to Richard Petty's success: success only because the team was funded up and above any other team in the series.

Gordon Fan:
1) Wrong, the Jimmie and Robby deal were both alike. Kevin did not slow down. He did not wave Robby by. When the caution came out in Sonoma, Robby was behind by 2 car lengths. When the caution came out at Michigan(?), Jimmie was 2 car lengths behind Waltrip.
2) The fact of the matter is that Nascar agreed with Biffle, so that settles everything. The fact that Jeff Gordon complained about Robby not being a gentleman, the fact that he said nothing about Jimmie not being a gentleman, and the fact that he broke the damn rule himself that he has been complaining about (since he did agree to giving Biffle his lap back) shows that he is just a hypocrit, and more and more people are noticing this.
 
Oh, well I didnt see the question about me having to answer the question on how Gordon does so well but here goes:

Why did Earnhardt do well ? Why did Richard Petty do well ? Why, because they were great drivers, and so is Jeff Gordon. I think Jeff Gordon is the last of the old breed of drivers and he came in during the time when it was the driver that mattered, not the car and all competition was equal only until the emergence of Cheating on horsepower that has taken place ironically years later in RCR, DEI, Hendrick and Roush. What I mean by old breed was that Jeff could turn a 43rd place car into a winning car, similiar to Dale Earnhardt; Dale Earnhardt cant be the only great driver nor can Richard Petty, most fans have to accept that Jeff Gordon is just a great driver; he can work with anything and funding just doesnt matter, that's my opinion on why Jeff is a great driver; there.
 
Originally posted by RobbyG Fan@Jul 21 2003, 10:08 PM
Gordon Fan:
1) Wrong, the Jimmie and Robby deal were both alike. Kevin did not slow down. He did not wave Robby by. When the caution came out in Sonoma, Robby was behind by 2 car lengths. When the caution came out at Michigan(?), Jimmie was 2 car lengths behind Waltrip.
2) The fact of the matter is that Nascar agreed with Biffle, so that settles everything. The fact that Jeff Gordon complained about Robby not being a gentleman, the fact that he said nothing about Jimmie not being a gentleman, and the fact that he broke the damn rule himself that he has been complaining about (since he did agree to giving Biffle his lap back) shows that he is just a hypocrit, and more and more people are noticing this.
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Get your FACTS straight.

1) Kevin DID slow down and waved to Robby that he was slowing down, not wave him by. He was 5 or more car lengths back, go watch the replay. J.J. and Waltrip were racing together, J.J. was beside him on his rear panel, again, go watch the replay. By the way, the FACT is the race was in Chicago, not Michigan.

2) The FACT from Biffle? LMAO! No, that is a statement by Biffle that can not be considered FACT, so that doesn't settle squat. How do you know that he never said anything to J.J. anyhow? Were you there all week? The FACT is that you were not. Another FACT for you is that at Infinion (Sonoma to you), Gordon was ASKED about Robby's move by the media, they didn't ask him this time about J.J.

The FACT is that the agreement is not a rule AND ever since Robby's move, there never will be an agreement either, as there shouldn't be.

Another FACT is that Biffle was not right behind Gordon when the caution flew.

It's funny that you never mention Biffle's deliberate running into Gordon on a restart that he was called to the big red trailer in the first place for! Is that ok? Cause the next time Gordon does that, we shouldn't see you in here whining about it then, right? :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by ward22@Jul 21 2003, 10:03 PM
Ward Burton didnt punt a guy...Mike Wallace I believe was loose and Ward tapped him when he moved up track. I agree, but dont blame things on others...or try to start something on them.
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LOL. Just pointing out that there were plenty of other incidents that deserved more discussion. Although Mike Wallace feels that he was punted. Our favorite drivers aren't perfect, just look at mine...LMAO. Nuff said. :D
 
Nuff said appears to be right.

This is the fact that seems to be causing such controversy:


NASCAR felt Biffle's move was justified!!

Maybe the golden one isn't used to being humiliated and then having the sanctioning body not back him.I don't know.Jeff's mouth seems to work just fine most of the time...why not now?

Because he knows that HE was the one that pulled the cheap shot...NOT Greg Biffle.

In honesty anyone arguing in Jeff's favor would have likely acted excactly in the manner Biffle did given the circumstances.Whether that makes acting in that manner 'right' or not is a matter of interpretation.


:) Now let's all just get along and remember opinions are just opinions.
 
Originally posted by Gordon Fan@Jul 22 2003, 04:54 AM

1) Kevin DID slow down and waved to Robby that he was slowing down, not wave him by. He was 5 or more car lengths back, go watch the replay. J.J. and Waltrip were racing together, J.J. was beside him on his rear panel, again, go watch the replay. By the way, the FACT is the race was in Chicago, not Michigan.

2) The FACT from Biffle? LMAO! No, that is a statement by Biffle that can not be considered FACT, so that doesn't settle squat. How do you know that he never said anything to J.J. anyhow? Were you there all week? The FACT is that you were not. Another FACT for you is that at Infinion (Sonoma to you), Gordon was ASKED about Robby's move by the media, they didn't ask him this time about J.J.

The FACT is that the agreement is not a rule AND ever since Robby's move, there never will be an agreement either, as there shouldn't be.

Another FACT is that Biffle was not right behind Gordon when the caution flew.

It's funny that you never mention Biffle's deliberate running into Gordon on a restart that he was called to the big red trailer in the first place for! Is that ok? Cause the next time Gordon does that, we shouldn't see you in here whining about it then, right? :rolleyes:
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1) Wrong, the only reason Harvick slowed was because he was battling the lapped car of Blaney and he got in the way at Infenion. Robby took advantage and made the pass.

2) Wrong. Dead wrong. Jeff Gordon was asked about Jimmie Johnson's pass at a press conference in New Hampshire (go to race2win.net to see the transcript) and he said, "I have no comment at this time." Why not comment? He sure had a comment or two to say after Infenion. Hypocrit.
 
Originally posted by RobbyG Fan@Jul 22 2003, 07:47 AM
1) Wrong, the only reason Harvick slowed was because he was battling the lapped car of Blaney and he got in the way at Infenion. Robby took advantage and made the pass.
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Harvick blasts Gordon for pass under yellow
By JIM UTTER
ThatsRacin.com Writer

Sunday, Kevin Harvick let four-time Winston Cup champion Jeff Gordon do the talking.
Monday was a different story.

Late Monday night, Harvick released a statement criticizing his Richard Childress Racing teammate Robby Gordon over a pass he made by Harvick under caution in Sunday's race at Sonoma, Calif., and for comments made Gordon made after the race.

Harvick was incensed over the pass, made on Lap 71 of 100 and in violation of a "gentleman's agreement" not to race back to the caution flag. However, he chose not to comment on the issue after the race.

Instead, Gordon took up Harvick's cause, chiding Robby Gordon for the pass, especially doing it to a teammate.

"This isn't about anyone breaking a NASCAR rule, because it was made clear in the drivers meeting that you could pass under yellow. But, it was a cheap move on Robby's part," Harvick said. "I had my hand out the window, to let him know I was checking up. Then I saw him coming, and coming fast.

"There's an unspoken code we all follow as race car drivers. You race hard under green, but you also have a mutual respect for each other. Robby didn't show that respect.

"I enjoy racing hard and beating and banging and I would have accepted it if he had raced me hard for the win under the green flag."

After the race, Jeff Gordon called Robby Gordon's actions "ridiculous." Robby Gordon responded that he didn't care what Jeff Gordon thought of him.

"(Robby's) post-race comments were an embarrassment," Harvick said. "He should care what a four-time Winston Cup champion thinks about him.

"This isn't about the (my) team or (Robby's) team, and it's not about RCR. It's about me and Robby. This dates back a few years and he's shown how he wants to race me.

"I promise I'm going to race him like he wants it from now on – teammates or not."




Robby G - bold above is in Harvick's own words.....
 
A debate that won't quit for a while...the gentleman's agreement.

The gentlemen's agreement was created by the drivers many years ago, some of the hardest drivers ever to strap on a NASCAR racecar. It was about safety and it was about respect, and it should continue. As a driver you know perfectly dem well if the car in front of you is racing you or not, if he's not you owe him the respect of the spot. Problem is now some drivers want to excuse their disrespect by saying the competition is too close and it's too hard to pass. All it is an excuse for not having the machine and the skill to do it during the green flag.

NASCAR has for the moment elected to stay out of it. Good for them. The drivers can figure it out and if it takes a little roughing up or busting a head in the garage to get it done..so be it. If you can't respect your fellow competitors, some will show how it is done. I hope.

Giving drivers laps back is not now nor has ever been part of this gentleman's agreement. It is a different deal . I have no problem with it either way, but if you make a deal you should stand by it. In the case of Jeff and Greg, I don't know if a deal was struck. Greg says yes and Jeff so far has said nothing. Let the two of them settle it.

Amazingly NASCAR seems to agree to do that as well. Seem this year they have stayed pretty much out of driver behavour spats and I for one hope they continue to do so. As long as nobody does anything really dangerous or stupid, let the drivers sort it out.

As to what drivers say afterward, it is almost meaningless. When you are the heat of battle your attitude of retaliation is somewhat different.

You know how to tell when a driver, car owner, crew chief or any of them are lying to you to explain something questionable?? Their lips move.
 
As far as I know deal making is not in the rule book and probably never will be. That makes Darby's comments just his opinion.
The gentlemans agreement is also not in the rule book.
But look forward to nascar stepping in as they said they would if this keeps up.
Possible new rules in 04 such as freezing the field as soon as the caution comes out. If these guys keep crying about it nascar will do something.
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
 
Maybe a hard and fast rule would go a long way towards clearing up some of this controversy in the future.If I were out there I don't think I would take anyone at their word. :) :cheers:
 
"Freezing the field" is an idea who's time has come. I realize it is easier said than done (especially in the case of the "Big One") but at least it has got to be better than what we have now. A "gentlemen's agreement" means nothing when the parties involved are not "gentlemen"
 
Well then if freezing the field becomes a rule.. GOODBYE NASCAR, HELLO IRL !!!!!!
 
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