Jones, Blaney, or Elliott

Revman

Revman

Toyota Gazoo Racing North America
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
15,377
Points
1,033
You have a two car team. Choose one existing veteran, and one of these guys. Who ya got?
 
Revman said:
You have a two car team. Choose one existing veteran, and one of these guys. Who ya got?
Click to expand...

Hmmmm......I have JJ and Chad plus Chase and Truex' CC. I figure if the CC of the 78 team can get a career mid packer to where he is now he must be a genius.
 
Given that Elliot is in Gordon's car, I have to say I've been a bit disappointed in his performance. I guess Blaney and Logano? Logano is still young but now has sufficient experience to mentor a rookie.
 
29-4 said:
Given that Elliot is in Gordon's car, I have to say I've been a bit disappointed in his performance. I guess Blaney and Logano? Logano is still young but now has sufficient experience to mentor a rookie.
Click to expand...
He finished ahead of Gordon yesterday on a road course.
 
When HMS gets things sorted out, Elliot's going to be winning races...alot of races.

To be fair though... Eliott, Blaney and Jones has been the biggest influx of young talent into the Cup series in a long time. All 3 are for real.
 
If I needed a veteran, Kez or Kyle. The two best all around drivers in the sport IMO. Can win anywhere, driving anything.
 
Veteran: Kevin Harvick.
Rookie: William Byron.

And when Harvick retires, I'd bring Christian Eckes or Kate Dallenbach up. Assuming TRD has already found a place for Todd Gilliland.

While at it, give me Matt McCall and Lee Pulliam as crew chiefs.
 
Last edited:
AndyMarquisLive said:
Veteran: Kevin Harvick.
Rookie: William Byron.

And when Harvick retires, I'd bring Christian Eckes or Kate Dallenbach up. Assuming TRD has already found a place for Todd Gilliland.

While at it, give me Matt McCall and Lee Pulliam as crew chiefs.
Click to expand...
I wonder if Byron takes over for Jones in the 20 Xfinity next year. Another talented developmental driver JRM lost, though I am not sure it's their fault
 
I mean, I did say "a bit." I still think he will have a very successful career. It's just that small doubts have arisen in my mind given the Hendrick equipment.
 
29-4 said:
One race is a small sample size. we've definitely seen rookies have more of an immediate impact-from Garrick


I mean, I did say "a bit." I still think he may have a very successful career.
Click to expand...

11 top 10s' and 2 poles?

That's not a bad start, his consistency has dropped off some, but his first half of the season was fantastic.
 
Kiante said:
11 top 10s' and 2 poles?

That's not a bad start, his consistency has dropped off some, but his first half of the season was fantastic.
Click to expand...

I'm really not against Elliot. I like him. When Harvick hangs it up, I'm considering him for my new driver. But we've seen rookies who've done a bit better. Jimmie Johnson. Kevin Harvick. Kyle Busch. I feel like the next phenom, driving for one of the teams, should have come closer to a win by now.
 
Lol I remember the year Kevin Conway won rookie of the year....

But if I had to choose, keselowski as the veteran and that Daniel Suarez kid as my rookie... All the other guys are impressive but Suarez has something special. Coming from someone who is not a TRD fan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
JimmieGordon2448 said:
I wonder if Byron takes over for Jones in the 20 Xfinity next year. Another talented developmental driver JRM lost, though I am not sure it's their fault
Click to expand...

It'll be interesting. TRD has snagged up all the talent, but are they going to have enough seats for them in the next few years? Are they going to force Matt Kenseth and Carl Edwards out when it's time to move Christopher Bell and William Byron up? Then, what do they do with William Byron? Force Denny Hamlin out? I don't know, but it'll be interesting to see if they can keep their talent.

Hendrick can't keep talent because they don't get rid of the lifers. Pretty common knowledge that Hendrick lost Brad Keselowski when he hired Mark Martin.

Christian Eckes is in the JRM development program now and maybe Hendrick can keep him. They need to figure some things out for the next few years.

Jimmie Johnson is 40-years-old. Dale Jr is probably going to be retiring sooner rather than later. Kasey Kahne has been pretty terrible and I bet Mr. H regrets resigning him.

As for Chris Buescher... I'd like to see him replace Ricky Stenhouse or Danica Patrick. Dude has the talent.
 
29-4 said:
I'm really not against Elliot. I like him. When Harvick hangs it up, I'm considering him for my new driver. But we've seen rookies who've done a bit better. Jimmie Johnson. Kevin Harvick. Kyle Busch. I feel like the next phenom, driving for one of the teams, should have come closer to a win by now.
Click to expand...

Jeff Gordon didn't get his first win until the Coca-Cola 600 in his sophomore year. And that win only happened because of a gutsy call by Ray Evernham to only take two tires in the final pit stop. :idunno:

We haven't really seen rookies do spectacular things in their rookie season for a decade now. There was an era in the late 90s and early 2000s when they did, because there was virtually no difference between Busch cars and Cup cars.

Juan Pablo Montoya won a race in 2007 on a road course on fuel mileage.
Brad Keselowski won a restrictor plate race in 2009.
Joey Logano got a fluke, luck win in the rain in 2009.
Trevor Bayne got that fluke Daytona 500 win in 2011 and has done nothing since.
Chris Buescher won in the rain on a luck call last week.

:idunno:
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
TRD has snagged up all the talent, but are they going to have enough seats for them in the next few years?
Click to expand...

I don't think that it can be assumed that Toyota/TRD will stand pat with six drivers on two teams. David Wilson has talked about a reasonable capacity for supplying eight engines at this point. Either FRR continues expansion, or someone else comes into the fold.....or Toyota/TRD simply picks and chooses. My guess is that you will see eight cars over three teams in the next few years.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Jeff Gordon didn't get his first win until the Coca-Cola 600 in his sophomore year. And that win only happened because of a gutsy call by Ray Evernham to only take two tires in the final pit stop. :idunno:
Click to expand...

I agree are exceptions. I think since the Kenseth/Earnhardt Jr battle in 2000, expectations have changed a bit. Again, this was mostly to answer the question of who I would pick today. Elliot may end up being a HoF, but at this point I'd pick Blaney.
 
KyBu and Chase. Kyle because of his talent and the fact that he's still only 31, and Chase for his star power and potential.
 
Revman said:
I don't think that it can be assumed that Toyota/TRD will stand pat with six drivers on two teams. David Wilson has talked about a reasonable capacity for supplying eight engines at this point. Either FRR continues expansion, or someone else comes into the fold.....or Toyota/TRD simply picks and chooses. My guess is that you will see eight cars over three teams in the next few years.
Click to expand...

Toyota's got a far superior development program right now. Credit to them. The other teams aren't keeping up.

JRM has some drivers and keeps losing them because Hendrick Motorsports keeps hiring lifers to fill Cup rides. They let Kyle Busch and Brad Keselowski go. And, most recently, passed on Kyle Larson to give Kasey Kahne a huge contract extension.

Childress has Kate Dallenbach in development and I hope they bring her up into Trucks and XFINITY. Aside from that, they've really only shown interest in the Dillon boys. Brandon Jones has been doing good in XFINITY but RCR picked him up because they cashed a check, not because of his talent.

I don't even know what Roush is doing. I know their cars haven't been elite in recent years, but they might want to consider ousting all three of their Cup drivers. Stenhouse has done nothing but crash, Bayne hasn't done a damn thing since his Daytona 500 win and Biffle is way past his prime.

Ganassi's actually doing a pretty good job with driverdevelopment, but their cars are so subpar. Maybe Chevrolet needs to devote resources to them. I would actually like to see Ganassi go to TRD. I like Lorin Rainer and Matt McCall and those guys. And I'll probably cheer for Larson when Harv retires.

Stewart Haas... I don't know. Kevin Harvick's probably gonna retire in a few years. Clint Bowyer isn't a long-term solution to anything. Kurt Busch, same boat as Kevin Harvick. And Danica is Danica. I have no clue who they're planning to move up.

Penske has Keselowski, Logano and Blaney. They're set for 10 years or so.

Toyota has so much depth right now. David Wilson is working his ass off for Toyota to be top dog in NASCAR and, at this rate, I think they will be dominant for 10-15 years. Not just because Toyota's doing a great job, but because the other teams are doing a terrible job.
 
29-4 said:
I agree are exceptions. I think since the Kenseth/Earnhardt Jr battle in 2000, expectations have changed a bit. Again, this was mostly to answer the question of who I would pick today. Elliot may end up being a HoF, but at this point I'd pick Blaney.
Click to expand...

Read my edit.

I think the fact that rookie success in Cup had a lot to do with the Busch cars being the exact same cars in the late 90s through the mid 2000s.

When NASCAR brought the Car of Tomorrow, I think it changed all that. The Busch cars and the Cup cars weren't the exact same anymore.


As for Chase Elliott, I think he's surpassed expectations, to be honest. The media had mind blowing expectations of him, just like they did of Logano, because they've spent the last 10 years saying Chase Elliott is the greatest ever of all time in the history of ever of all time. Chase is a good kid with a good head. He doesn't let the media hype or the expectations get to him.
 
As for Chase Elliott, I think he's surpassed expectations, to be honest. The media had mind blowing expectations of him, just like they did of Logano, because they've spent the last 10 years saying Chase Elliott is the greatest ever of all time in the history of ever of all time. Chase is a good kid with a good head. He doesn't let the media hype or the expectations get to him.[/QUOTE]

This right hear! You've hit nail on the head. The only thing that will trip this kid up, if he lets all the media hype get into his head. He's got to understand it will take time to develop. Mr. H knows this already and I'm sure him and bill are doing everything they can to keep his head grounded.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
It'll be interesting. TRD has snagged up all the talent, but are they going to have enough seats for them in the next few years? Are they going to force Matt Kenseth and Carl Edwards out when it's time to move Christopher Bell and William Byron up? Then, what do they do with William Byron? Force Denny Hamlin out? I don't know, but it'll be interesting to see if they can keep their talent.

Hendrick can't keep talent because they don't get rid of the lifers. Pretty common knowledge that Hendrick lost Brad Keselowski when he hired Mark Martin.

Christian Eckes is in the JRM development program now and maybe Hendrick can keep him. They need to figure some things out for the next few years.

Jimmie Johnson is 40-years-old. Dale Jr is probably going to be retiring sooner rather than later. Kasey Kahne has been pretty terrible and I bet Mr. H regrets resigning him.

As for Chris Buescher... I'd like to see him replace Ricky Stenhouse or Danica Patrick. Dude has the talent.
Click to expand...
Eckes is a good one I hope they keep. They lost Ben Rhodes to TRD who ran well last year in limited Xfinity time for them. They have Custer in the CWTS. Not sure how much he's in the future plans though. I could see Roush doing anything to keep Buescher( probably replacing Biffle next year?)
 
People are forgetting how well Chase was running in some of these recent races in which he wrecked out. That's why I'm not so sure about this "what's wrong with HMS?" talk. Chase and Jimmie have been running really well and just haven't brought home the finishes to show for it recently. Come chase time, it'll show.

I think they both make the final 8.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Ganassi go to TRD
Click to expand...

When I think of a third team, I think of Chip....and do you think TRD would like another crack at Larson (and visa versa )? Hell yes.

AndyMarquisLive said:
Toyota has so much depth right now. David Wilson is working his ass off for Toyota to be top dog in NASCAR and, at this rate, I think they will be dominant for 10-15 years. Not just because Toyota's doing a great job, but because the other teams are doing a terrible job.
Click to expand...

David Wilson talked about Lee White's direction with regard to developing drivers in Toyota's early Cup days in his podcast with Nate Ryan. In short, he was against it. It is important to remember that Mr. White brought into NASCAR (with Aust, Unger, et al.). At that time, the mandate from Japan was "to participate." They did not want to "buy up" NASCAR as Mr. Roush had suggested they would. They needed to gain the support of the NASCAR community. Therefore, Mr. White refused to get into the driver business. He felt that this was the business of the teams and that TRD needed to be a support--not the driver of decisions. David Wilson has taken a different approach obviously, but I don't feel that he is contrary to Mr. White. I believe that the landscape has changed, and Toyota USA had grown impatient for a Cup title prior to last year. He not only had to deliver in short order (Toyota gave him a couple of years in fairness), but he needed to do something to keep hope for the future. The first thing was to re-sign Kyle, and commit to support KBM. Done. The next step was this driver development program which caught Chevy and Ford by surprise.

I'm not sure anybody could conclude that other teams are doing a terrible job. They are just getting beaten. TRD has worked their asses off for 10 years to get to this. It has been brutal, and they deserve what they are getting. Maybe all teams are doing a great job, but Toyota is just better right now? I honestly don't believe that Toyota will dominate for 10-15 years (I would like to think so). This is Toyota's first time to set the pace, and as David Wilson has repeatedly mentioned, it will go away quicker than it arrived. It's part of the game, and what I love about this sport.
 
Revman said:
When I think of a third team, I think of Chip....and do you think TRD would like another crack at Larson (and visa versa )? Hell yes.



David Wilson talked about Lee White's direction with regard to developing drivers in Toyota's early Cup days in his podcast with Nate Ryan. In short, he was against it. It is important to remember that Mr. White brought into NASCAR (with Aust, Unger, et al.). At that time, the mandate from Japan was "to participate." They did not want to "buy up" NASCAR as Mr. Roush had suggested they would. They needed to gain the support of the NASCAR community. Therefore, Mr. White refused to get into the driver business. He felt that this was the business of the teams and that TRD needed to be a support--not the driver of decisions. David Wilson has taken a different approach obviously, but I don't feel that he is contrary to Mr. White. I believe that the landscape has changed, and Toyota USA had grown impatient for a Cup title prior to last year. He not only had to deliver in short order (Toyota gave him a couple of years in fairness), but he needed to do something to keep hope for the future. The first thing was to re-sign Kyle, and commit to support KBM. Done. The next step was this driver development program which caught Chevy and Ford by surprise.

I'm not sure anybody could conclude that other teams are doing a terrible job. They are just getting beaten. TRD has worked their asses off for 10 years to get to this. It has been brutal, and they deserve what they are getting. Maybe all teams are doing a great job, but Toyota is just better right now? I honestly don't believe that Toyota will dominate for 10-15 years (I would like to think so). This is Toyota's first time to set the pace, and as David Wilson has repeatedly mentioned, it will go away quicker than it arrived. It's part of the game, and what I love about this sport.
Click to expand...

I think the other teams have passed up on some real talent in favor of cashing a check from some kid's daddy and it's backfiring. They're getting paid, sure, but they're not getting results.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I think the other teams have passed up on some real talent in favor of cashing a check from some kid's daddy and it's backfiring. They're getting paid, sure, but they're not getting results.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and I think that this speaks to the relationships that Ford and Chevy have with their teams. Do Pericek and Campbell have the same relationship with their teams to suggest/subsidize drivers as David Wilson does? I don't think so, and who's fault is that? I am sure that there are some who would suggest that David has the benefit of Toyota cash, but I would argue that until somebody showed me a spreadsheet. I have said before that many would be surprised IMO that TRD/Toyota doesn't have a blank check, and I might argue that they are not outspending everybody which was suggested upon their entry--went away only to resurface when they started winning. The depth of the relationship Toyota/TRD has with JGR cannot be underestimated. Additionally, JGR and FRR are very tight. This thing is functioning as one entity right now. If Chevy loses the Manufacturer Championship, Campbell may have to rethink how Chevy is involved in NASCAR. I think that Pericek might already be heading down that path.
 
Not to long ago the Toy engines were lousy and not competitive in the sense of longevity.

They took a year off, cut back on HP to make the engines last while they did their homework and now they are at the top of the list. HMS engines have fallen to second place and have more failures. Reminds me of an old saying that the chasers work harder and others get complacent.
Not sure if all these good young prospects just happened or if it was a long term plan but
having KBM in Trucks is a great way to judge talent. They have a veteran like Kyle to make sure the equipment is top notch and a bench mark to judge possible rookies. Suarez is the exception as JGR has him full time in a tougher series. In the long run he may be the better driver and better funded.
 
Team Penske said:
Not sure if all these good young prospects just happened or if it was a long term plan but
having KBM in Trucks is a great way to judge talent.
Click to expand...

Long term plan. I am certain that a significant part of Kyle's last deal was help from Toyota for KBM. In this, get Kyle. Awesome. In addition, the test bed for talent. Great. Win/win.
 
Vet--Morgan Shepard, he hasn't crashed in 15 plus years
rookie--bill's kid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom