Kansas: The great Debate

Who Won at Kansas?

  • Clint Bowyer

    Votes: 17 51.5%

  • Greg Biffle

    Votes: 16 48.5%
  • Total voters
    33
If Biffle was out of gas? He did make it across the finish line without any assistance. Who knows. Whatever Nascar says is the law anyway.
 
Biffle didn't maintain speed. But we know NASCAR makes this stuff up as they go along anyway.
 
Nascar rules that a car maintains "cautious pace". Remember Robby Gordon in the busch race?
 
Biffle won. Jeff comes in 2nd. Clint, Jimmie and Mears are disallowed for passing when the field was frozen.
Hey that makes as much sense as what Nascar came up with. :)
 
Vern Demerest said:
Nascar rules that a car maintains "cautious pace". Remember Robby Gordon in the busch race?
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Exactly.

Biffle didnt maintain cautious pace so he should be scored where he crossed the line, which was like 4th. Bowyer is the winner.

But really, lets all be real here... Nascar has "big team" rules and they have "Robby rules".
 
1 +2 Jimmie Johnson 5506 L
2 -1 Jeff Gordon 5500 -6
3 +2 Clint Bowyer 5497 -9
4 -2 Tony Stewart 5389 -117
5 +4 Kevin Harvick 5380 -126
6 -2 Kyle Busch 5370 -136
7 -1 Carl Edwards 5364 -142
8 -1 Martin Truex Jr. 5348 -158
9 +2 Kurt Busch 5329 -177
10 -2 Jeff Burton 5320 -186
11 -1 Matt Kenseth 5287 -219
12 -- Denny Hamlin 5258 -248

When do they reset the points again? This is shaping out to be a 2 man race as I don't think Clint can continue his pace. Nascar needs to do something to keep the fans attention and having HMS run away with the Chase you know doesn't fit into their plans.
The Drive for Five is still Alive. :cool:
 
RobbyG Fan said:
Exactly.

Biffle didnt maintain cautious pace so he should be scored where he crossed the line, which was like 4th. Bowyer is the winner.

But really, lets all be real here... Nascar has "big team" rules and they have "Robby rules".
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I think "cautious pace" leaves a lot of discretion for nascar, ie, have you been a good boy or a bad boy, were you winning the race or were you about to get passed. In the Biffle case, he was leading by 10 car lengths and if the yellow had'nt come out he would have won. Irregardless of running out of gas or not, we don't know that and neither did nascar at the time. My opinion is that Biffle won the race.
 
How could Bowyer have won?
The field was frozen at the caution, before anyone crossed the finish line. Biffle coasted across the line just like Tony did last year, for the win.
Congrats Biff!!
 
I missed the finish.

But If the yellow was out and IF Biff fell off the pace, then he should not have won. I think Tony won the race under green last year, but i could be wrong.

This does sound like a Robby Rule to me. But i will have to watch the replay before i make a final stand.
 
Ok, i just seen the replay. The win should of went to Clint. Biff was WAY off the pace. The filed was frozen, but he did not keep the pace, so he should not have the win. Just another day in NASCARP.
 
Lap3Forever said:
Ok, i just seen the replay. The win should of went to Clint. Biff was WAY off the pace. The filed was frozen, but he did not keep the pace, so he should not have the win. Just another day in NASCARP.
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Yup...
 
Lap3Forever said:
Ok, i just seen the replay. The win should of went to Clint. Biff was WAY off the pace. The filed was frozen, but he did not keep the pace, so he should not have the win. Just another day in NASCARP.
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Yeah but that stuff shouldnt happen, especially during the points chase races.
 
Lap3Forever said:
I missed the finish.

But If the yellow was out and IF Biff fell off the pace, then he should not have won. I think Tony won the race under green last year, but i could be wrong.

This does sound like a Robby Rule to me. But i will have to watch the replay before i make a final stand.
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Robby came to a stop. Big difference.
 
MRM said:
Robby came to a stop. Big difference.
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Biffle off the pace (out of gas) = Biffle's fault. He wins.

Robby gets wrecked = someone else's fault. Robby loses.

There's a problem with that.

Again, it sounds like NASCAR's saying it's okay to wreck a guy under yellow, but if they run out of gas on their own, then it's not okay to pass them.

Clint won. Either that or the 48, 07, and the 25 should be disqualified.
 
There is no need in us stressing over anything in Nascar. France and crew think they are GOD and right about everything. The fans are stupid.
 
I think this is the first time in history that NASCAR rules in favor of a Roush driver!!!
 
AndyMarquisLIVE said:
Biffle off the pace (out of gas) = Biffle's fault. He wins.

Robby gets wrecked = someone else's fault. Robby loses.

There's a problem with that.

Again, it sounds like NASCAR's saying it's okay to wreck a guy under yellow, but if they run out of gas on their own, then it's not okay to pass them.

Clint won. Either that or the 48, 07, and the 25 should be disqualified.
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Don't give NASCAR the idea to DQ the drivers for passing under yellow, on the last lap, when a car runs out of gas!

Robby did come to a stop, after he was jacked up from behind under YELLOW. So no, not really a Big Differnce. Kind of hard to keep forward motion sliding sideways.

Yes Biff kept forward motion, but it was not up to par with the pacecar. I dont care who would of won, id still be uneasy about this call.
 
Who won

I think its plane to see who should have won, If you're a Biff(Roush) fan he should have won, if you're a Bowyer(Childress) fan he should have won. If you're a Johnson-Mears(Hendrick) they should have won. Or If you're a Stuart fan then they should have called the race while he was leading so he could win.

Whoever I think it's time to move on to Taladega where there's sure to be alot more controversy.
 
And this is the reason.......

NASCAR has difficulty gaining respect among geberal sporting enthusiasts and afficianados of professional motor sport events.

NASCAR drivers have proven time and again they are among the best in the world, but for some reason, Indy, Formula 1, and other venues receive greater credibilty than NASCAR because of rulings such as the one determoing the winner this weekend at Kansas.

Until the day NASCAR prints a rule book and follows same, to the letter, there will always be doubt who won and why or who is penalized for what infraction, and why.

And no, it is not as simple as the favorite driver, not in this situation. But a prescedent has been set and NASCAR will be closely observed by the nay-sayers who hold a low or less than favorable opinion of NASCAR as a legitimate sport, Brian France, et al, the rules, the way NASCAR interprets and applies them.
Same crap, different day.
 
Well Whizz

NASCAR has now set the prescedent for this happening three times.. First there was MArk, then there was Robby and now we have the "out of gas" thing.. Which prescedent do you think they will use next time?
Betsy:rolleyes:
 
It depends...

Betsy said:
NASCAR has now set the prescedent for this happening three times.. First there was MArk, then there was Robby and now we have the "out of gas" thing.. Which prescedent do you think they will use next time?
Betsy:rolleyes:
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... on the driver.

I say Greg won the race and NASCAR went out of their way to screw Robby at Montreal.
 
Drivers agree call to end race was correct
Richmond Times Dispatch

When the last caution fell Sunday at Kansas, Clint Bowyer said that he wanted a shot at the win, but it was too dark for him to maneuver around Biffle. The race was finished under caution.

Casey Mears said that was definitely the right thing to do. Mears finished fourth.

"I had to run with my visor up those last few laps," Mears said. "I had a tinted visor on. I couldn't see at all that last five or 10 laps, I just had to turn my visor up and then I could see pretty good. Obviously it got dark quick, so it definitely was the way to call the race."

Jimmie Johnson, who finished third and moved to first in the points standings, agreed wholeheartedly.

"Without a doubt," Johnson said. "It was really tough to see out there."

Those watching on TV at home might not have agreed, but television cameras have a filter that adds light to anything being filmed at night, so the pictures were deceptively bright.
 
If this were a RCR, JGR, HMS driver, it would be a non-issue. Stewart ran around on & off power before the rain...he wasn't maintaining an exact speed behind the pace car. If the field was frozen, what does it matter ?? The race is over as long as he crosses the line, IMO.
 
CypressTrout said:
If this were a RCR, JGR, HMS driver, it would be a non-issue. Stewart ran around on & off power before the rain...he wasn't maintaining an exact speed behind the pace car. If the field was frozen, what does it matter ?? The race is over as long as he crosses the line, IMO.
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I agree, the field is frozen when the yellow comes out so if Biffle was leading , which i believe he was then he is the winner. It shouldn't matter if he did not maintain "speed" as long as he crossed the finish line.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I agree, the field is frozen when the yellow comes out so if Biffle was leading , which i believe he was then he is the winner. At that exact time he was leading , so it shouldn't matter if he did not maintain "speed" as long as he crossed the finish line.
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I agree.
So, if someone really wanted to start another debate...
Shouldn't the guys that passed Biffle before the line be penalized for passing under the yellow? :confused:
Same difference.
 
BobbyFord said:
I agree.
So, if someone really wanted to start another debate...
Shouldn't the guys that passed Biffle before the line be penalized for passing under the yellow? :confused:
Same difference.
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Jeff Gordon said he was almost at a stop. Im not the best at driving a stick, but i do know they can be hard to keep running at slow speeds like that. But the drivers were just keepin up with the pace car. From what i seen the pacecar was a good 50+ yards from the 07 who crossed the line 1st...i dont think that is close enough.

Mikey said at a Busch race at Bristol under yellow he went to pull in the pits, but never hit pit lane. At the time he was running 3rd, but they scored him as like 6th. This was on the last lap.
 
Lap3Forever said:
Jeff Gordon said he was almost at a stop. Im not the best at driving a stick, but i do know they can be hard to keep running at slow speeds like that. But the drivers were just keepin up with the pace car. From what i seen the pacecar was a good 50+ yards from the 07 who crossed the line 1st...i dont think that is close enough.

Mikey said at a Busch race at Bristol under yellow he went to pull in the pits, but never hit pit lane. At the time he was running 3rd, but they scored him as like 6th. This was on the last lap.
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...Almost at a stop doesn't count...
...Stick cars are not hard to keep running at slow speeds; that's what the clutch is for...
...I don't believe the pace car was 50+ yards in front of Biffle and even if it were, NASCAR thought it was "close enough".
 
From what it looked like to me, Biffle was going at least 20 mph when he crossed the line. The others passed him to make an issue out of it & try to steal a win because they couldn't get it done on the track under green. I assure you, being a Roush driver, if there was any possible way that Nascar could have stripped GB of the win, they would have.
 
welcome to Na$car... we make the rules as we go.....
 
Here's the thing, if an HMS driver would've won that race in the same matter that Biffle did there'd be the biggest love-in in the history of Nascar.

However, they didn't, so Gordon and Johnson get out of their cars and whine, bawl, moan, bitch and complain - what else is new? It's the same old sour grapes from the same two drivers. Seriously - I've NEVER seen two drivers sook so much when things don't go their way.

Biffle's car passed tech, he didn't have to bump someone out of the way to win and he drives a Ford. I think I see what the problem is :rolleyes:

Chad, could you please hand Jimmie the tissues?
 
Like Robby said...

Patrick9999 said:
Here's the thing, if an HMS driver would've won that race in the same matter that Biffle did there'd be the biggest love-in in the history of Nascar.

However, they didn't, so Gordon and Johnson get out of their cars and whine, bawl, moan, bitch and complain - what else is new? It's the same old sour grapes from the same two drivers. Seriously - I've NEVER seen two drivers sook so much when things don't go their way.

Biffle's car passed tech, he didn't have to bump someone out of the way to win and he drives a Ford. I think I see what the problem is :rolleyes:

Chad, could you please hand Jimmie the tissues?
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... NASCAR has set precedents in the past. If this was the right call, Jimmie, Clint and Mears should've been DQ'd (which would've been great for Harvick in points).

Basically, a caution is a caution and you don't wreck or pass anyone under yellow unless they're Robby Gordon.
 
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