Kyle Busch's Comments about Loudon

StandOnIt

StandOnIt

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some really good stuff here from a racers standpoint. It explains a lot to me about why so many races there are not that great from a spectator's standpoint. I can see why the drivers council recommended track bite for more racing grooves. It did help it a little bit IMO.


“It always lends to exciting moments; we had one today,” Kyle Busch said. “Sometimes the racing, though, is a little strung out with this place being so hard to pass.”

Busch called it “frustrating to race here sometimes” and explained in detail why that’s the case, if you want to dive in:

“It’s just not lending itself to being able to be right on top of or right close to the guy in front of you, because you just get so tight when you’re behind that guy. And you build air pressure in the front tires and you slow down and that guy drives away from you, and then you kind of accordion back to the next guy, he’s catching you thinking he’s going to pass you and then he gets tight, and it kind of goes back to the next guy.”

Look, it’s not like the Las Vegas race — New Hampshire’s replacement — is going to be that much more compelling. But it gives NASCAR a chance to open the playoffs in a high-profile market and then keep a short track (Richmond) as the second race, all while keeping an event at Loudon in July. So with apologies to the locals who love this place, that’s not the worst development.

https://twitter.com/jeff_gluck
 
With all due respect to Kyle, and the same goes for any driver, I am not interested in knowing why the racing sucks at several tracks or hearing some dude wanking on about physics or aero or anything else. In fact I don't even know what is going to be done to make the racing better as it just needs to happen. Change the cars, the tracks, the tires, use more hairspray or anything else that will make the racing better and cause more people to tune in from home and go to the track.
 
NASCAR takes tiny steps trying to do just that. The problem is the next race just happens so there is not time to check the results of many changes. Then some fool opens another bottle of scotch and it doesn't matter an more till next Monday morning.
 
Team Penske said:
NASCAR takes tiny steps trying to do just that. The problem is the next race just happens so there is not time to check the results of many changes. Then some fool opens another bottle of scotch and it doesn't matter an more till next Monday morning.
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It does explain partly why they lost one race, economics is another. I've watched that race for many years and no offense to people who like the race or go to see it, it is better suited for modifieds IMO. They have tons more grip and don't get as tight behind another car.
 
and many of the 1.5 milers were built and are more suitable for open wheel racing.
 
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Team Penske said:
and many of the 1.5 milers were built and are more suitable for open wheel racing.
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I've never had much of a problem with the 1.5's newer technology with track surfacing , banking changes and tires have helped IMO. looking at the recent polls here. there have been some good races on the 1.5's lately.
 
StandOnIt said:
It does explain partly why they lost one race, economics is another. I've watched that race for many years and no offense to people who like the race or go to see it, it is better suited for modifieds IMO. They have tons more grip and don't get as tight behind another car.
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If memory serves Wilkesboro lost one of its dates to Loudon and another to Tejas but regardless of if my memory is failing or not Wilkesboro always put on a good show instead of the crap fests at the tracks that have those dates now. The only problem with losing a race from Loudon is that there is still another one on the schedule.
 
Kyle Busch nailed it on the head here. Hell anyone that's played iracing with a wheel and pedals knows this, it's just not easy to pass here and it's greater length than Martinsville leads to people moving into turns in a much more cautious way.

It's a cool track but with today's speeds we need to see racing at tracks with more banking or shorter distances. It's a lot like golf really, it's lengthened quite a bit with the newer tech
 
Before this race I was pretty butt hurt that we got another 1.5 mile track added to the schedule and lost a "short" track , but after the race, looking forward to Vegas now.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
IMO, a big part of the problem with Loudon IS the current high speeds.
Not advocating plates, as that was done with disastrous results.
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That is part of the problem with most of the tracks these days, the cars are just going to fast for good racing, just my little old opinion of course:D
 
TexasRaceLady said:
IMO, a big part of the problem with Loudon IS the current high speeds.
Not advocating plates, as that was done with disastrous results.
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haven't heard a peep about what Nascar did at Indy with the xfinity cars with the front end changes they made instead of restrictor plates. I wonder what it would do at a track like Loudon. Even though it is a different animal, they would run slower and punch a bigger hole in the air. It might make passing easier because the cars can run closer together.
 
Loudon is a great, technical track. If Goodyear supplied some decent tires it would be different. If NASCAR was spraying stuff that produces less grip instead of more, it would be different. If we had coverage that actually showed the racing around the track as opposed to the top 3 all spread out or whatever, it would be different.

The racing doesn't have to be bad. NASCAR is just gonna NASCAR
 
NASCAR needs to find a better balance with the cars and leave the tracks alone. They've tried cutting the spoiler down for several years and it's just been a band-aid. The cars are turds.
 
loudonmeme.jpg
 
ReturnTrip said:
NASCAR needs to find a better balance with the cars and leave the tracks alone. They've tried cutting the spoiler down for several years and it's just been a band-aid. The cars are turds.
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I sure would love to see some more short tracks to get a better balance in the schedule. Most of the 1.5 mile tracks will be down to 35-45,000 fans in a few years anyway so the shorter tracks won't hurt attendance
 
StandOnIt said:
It does explain partly why they lost one race, economics is another. I've watched that race for many years and no offense to people who like the race or go to see it, it is better suited for modifieds IMO. They have tons more grip and don't get as tight behind another car.
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Best race there by far.
 
DUN24 said:
Loudon is a great, technical track. If Goodyear supplied some decent tires it would be different. If NASCAR was spraying stuff that produces less grip instead of more, it would be different.
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tenor.gif
 
ReturnTrip said:
NASCAR needs to find a better balance with the cars and leave the tracks alone. They've tried cutting the spoiler down for several years and it's just been a band-aid. The cars are turds.
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Trucks run there, 100's less HP. slower speeds, same result. The changes would be so drastic for one track (see modifieds) it ain't worth it. They are going to run Pinty Canadian cars there next year with the modifieds, closer to a version of the trucks less HP but better in the corners than a truck. I hope they show the race. I really don't expect any difference than the trucks result.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
IMO, a big part of the problem with Loudon IS the current high speeds.
Not advocating plates, as that was done with disastrous results.
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That is one problem Nascar has, they always want to go faster and yet that is also what ruins the racing. Instead of building cars and tracks to accommodate the stupid drivers, make the cars so hard to drive that it actually takes a few brains to get the job done.
 
One problem with all tracks is that they are expensive to build and expensive to change. The cars continue to evolve and the tracks tend to stay the same, the cars will perform differently and the racing changes. The speeds the cars run these days makes everything in racing an aerodynamic issue.

Track changes cause racing changes. Bristol is a good example. I hated the old track but the locals loved it. I liked the racing with the progressive banking but the locals hated it. Now they have something else. Other tracks won't be changed that often. NASCAR has a set of tracks that they run and they have to run what they have.
 
Zerkfitting said:
One problem with all tracks is that they are expensive to build and expensive to change. The cars continue to evolve and the tracks tend to stay the same, the cars will perform differently and the racing changes. The speeds the cars run these days makes everything in racing an aerodynamic issue.

Track changes cause racing changes. Bristol is a good example. I hated the old track but the locals loved it. I liked the racing with the progressive banking but the locals hated it. Now they have something else. Other tracks won't be changed that often. NASCAR has a set of tracks that they run and they have to run what they have.
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Agreed. As mentioned earlier PGA hosting courses have changed immensely to make up for the new tech golfers have today, NASCAR needs to be doing the same.

As for slickening the track up I do not agree with this. Best example I can give is the truck race at Eldora this year, they pulled a lot of the cushion away and it was a boring race compared to usual.

We see this a lot in 2017 racing, there has been this big push to pull downforce off the car which I like, but it's lead to absolute domination by a select few cars that can nail it. You see the same thing in World of Outlaws, a few select teams absolute own the sport.

You have to remember less grip and downforce means clean air becomes much more important
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Agreed. As mentioned earlier PGA hosting courses have changed immensely to make up for the new tech golfers have today, NASCAR needs to be doing the same.

As for slickening the track up I do not agree with this. Best example I can give is the truck race at Eldora this year, they pulled a lot of the cushion away and it was a boring race compared to usual.

We see this a lot in 2017 racing, there has been this big push to pull downforce off the car which I like, but it's lead to absolute domination by a select few cars that can nail it. You see the same thing in World of Outlaws, a few select teams absolute own the sport.

You have to remember less grip and downforce means clean air becomes much more important
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Comparison to golf? there is more passing on the larger tracks at high speeds than any of the smaller tracks Nascar races on. Watch the trucks at Las Vegas this weekend compared to both series at "the monster mile". Way difference of opinion about Eldora. Crafton was able to set his truck up to run the lower groove and was an upset winner. Eldora for the first time was a multi grove dirt track for the trucks. They were racing all over it.
 
Mispeedway15 said:
You have to remember less grip and downforce means clean air becomes much more important
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aunty dive said:
Exactly.

Thanks for posting that.
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I don't agree with that. When the cars are designed to generate high aero downforce, they suffer immensely from dirty air, which reduces the downforce. When they are configured for less downforce in clean air, they suffer less from losing the clean air.

Downforce and aero grip are lowest at Daytona and Talladega, and clean air is a detriment at those tracks, not a benefit. This is because dirty air also produces less drag, so the leader in clean air has the highest drag, while trailing cars in dirty air have less. What happens to the leader when he gets half-a-second ahead at Talladega? He is a sitting duck.

F1 increased their downforce this year, and clean air is more important there than anywhere. The result is, overtaking has declined... from rare... to never.

Edit to add: I believe side force and rear steer are the next big steps in improving the quality of Nascar racing.
 
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Down force, John Force, clean air, dirty air, millionaires, aero grip, aero slip, no grip, hairspray grip, lots of fans, few fans, old fans, brake fans.


corbis_rf_photo_of_dog_chasing_tail.jpg
 
Another thing I don't like about downforce is that it works until it doesn't. There is very little advance warning until a car comes unglued and nothing can keep it out of the wall. Less downforce, the direction in Nascar makes the car harder to handle for the unskilled drivers (see Stenhouse) but gives warnings before it snaps loose. The issue with one lane Loudon is aero. Nascar doesn't have the huge tires that other cars with half the weight have. BTW they never have. Short tracks and Nascar have always had this problem. If anybody has watched all of the K&N or Arca short tracks this year IMO old timey Nascar, almost all of the finishes have been between one and two knocking each other out of the way. So predictable and frankly pretty goofy unless you are new to the sport and you haven't seen it a hundred times.
 
^^^ Plate racing is irrelevant to this conversation.

Reduced downforce on the front of the car (by rule) in clean air results in a decrease in aerodynamic grip. Turbulence from a leading car / cars further reduces it and you can only go so far with that before the car becomes undriveable.

That's the point made by Mispeedway15.
 
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