Layoffs underway at Kyle Busch Motorsports

3wideinturn1 said:
I don't agree about the unconditional support thing, as I never have or will support a tobacco company regardless of the contribution to the sport. However I think he's right, most people are over it. Furthermore the Busch bros, while lacking certain social skills, both possess the most important marketing tool...the fact that they are winners, and consistent winners too. All companies want those guys, regardless of their past transgressions.
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Fair point. I guess "unconditional support" is the wrong term. Maybe "unconditional appreciation"?
 
Allenbaba said:
How is Mars and Toyota spending tens of millions of dollars on Kyle's persona "spin"?
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In my opinion it's mostly on Joe Gibbs persona, after all he is the one that convinced Mars and Toyota to give him another chance.
 
Allenbaba said:
Fair point. I guess "unconditional support" is the wrong term. Maybe "unconditional appreciation"?
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And by the way, If you are who you say you are then It's your bread and butter to convince people that the stars are out and bright at high noon and the best golfing is at midnight, that is a phrase that the spindoctors that I once dealt with used. So I don't take anything you say at face value.
 
Johali said:
In my opinion it's mostly on Joe Gibbs persona, after all he is the one that convinced Mars and Toyota to give him another chance.
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Joe isn't the face of the sponsorships...Kyle is. Plus, Joe has a stable of other drivers. If Mars and Toyota love Joe, but Kyle scares them, they'd tell Joe to replace Kyle, or spend money on one of Joe's others, or tell Joe "sorry, just too risky." That kind of thing happens plenty. These aren't opinions, Johali, they're facts.
 
Allenbaba said:
Joe isn't the face of the sponsorships...Kyle is. Plus, Joe has a stable of other drivers. If Mars and Toyota love Joe, but Kyle scares them, they'd tell Joe to replace Kyle, or spend money on one of Joe's others, or tell Joe "sorry, just too risky." That kind of thing happens plenty. These aren't opinions, Johali, they're facts.
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Nope, see post 43.
 
I dealt with the PTM "persons that matter" of large international companies so our PR/SD's tried to make us into their mini-me's, it didn't stick with me too well.
 
For what it's worth, I don't fancy myself a PR guy, or sales guy. My job is to help marry our stable of drivers with their (usually pre-existing) products/sponsors/etc in a fun, attention getting way. We're basically an ad agency.

Though, I was the one who inked the Wonder deal for Kurt. Here's an anecdote you'll love: after a couple weeks of working with Flowers Foods (and their ad agency) we were on the homestretch (fee agreed to, deliverables agreed to, etc etc...) I then get an email from the guy I had been working with, their VP of Marketing. Below is an exact cut and paste of the entire email. Enjoy!

Hey, one more thing, our legal department just googled Kurt. Do you have a recommendation on what I should tell them?
 
Allenbaba said:
For what it's worth, I don't fancy myself a PR guy, or sales guy. My job is to help marry our stable of drivers with their (usually pre-existing) products/sponsors/etc in a fun, attention getting way. We're basically an ad agency.

Though, I was the one who inked the Wonder deal for Kurt. Here's an anecdote you'll love: after a couple weeks of working with Flowers Foods (and their ad agency) we were on the homestretch (fee agreed to, deliverables agreed to, etc etc...) I then get an email from the guy I had been working with, their VP of Marketing. Below is an exact cut and paste of the entire email. Enjoy!

Hey, one more thing, our legal department just googled Kurt. Do you have a recommendation on what I should tell them?
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Was your answer, ER-EH-UH, when can I expect the signed contract?
 
Allenbaba said:
Yep. In fact, the state of sponsorship across all three of the major NASCAR series is dangerously unstable.
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You'll have that when the cost of a sponsoring a nascar team continues to go up. It wasn't that long ago that it cost 8-10 million a year to sponsor a Cup team for a year. Now what is it, 18-20 million a year? What will it be in 10 years, 30-40 million? At that rate there will only be a handful of teams getting the big money, while the majority of teams will be forced to scrimp to get through the season with less money. If that happens the competition will be heavily favored to those big money teams.

nascar restricts and limits all sorts of things to keep the competition as even as possible. Perhaps it's time for nascar to start considering limiting the amount of money a team can get from sponsors per year. Like a money cap of 15 million a year per team, and make the teams figure out how to make that work. That may go a long way in convincing new sponsors to spend their millions on a nascar team.
 
gordonite said:
You'll have that when the cost of a sponsoring a nascar team continues to go up. It wasn't that long ago that it cost 8-10 million a year to sponsor a Cup team for a year. Now what is it, 18-20 million a year? What will it be in 10 years, 30-40 million? At that rate there will only be a handful of teams getting the big money, while the majority of teams will be forced to scrimp to get through the season with less money. If that happens the competition will be heavily favored to those big money teams.

nascar restricts and limits all sorts of things to keep the competition as even as possible. Perhaps it's time for nascar to start considering limiting the amount of money a team can get from sponsors per year. Like a money cap of 15 million a year per team, and make the teams figure out how to make that work. That may go a long way in convincing a new sponsors to spend their millions on a nascar team.
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Brilliant idea..they can use high school and college sports for a model.o_O It is called free market. the best drivers and the best teams make the most money. might not seem fair from your standpoint, but it is night and day better than the don't look don't tell dishonest stick n ball setup
 
StandOnIt said:
Brilliant idea..they can use high school and college sports for a model.o_O It is called free market. the best drivers and the best teams make the most money. might not seem fair from your standpoint, but it is night and day better than the don't look don't tell dishonest stick n ball setup
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Like I said, nascar limits and restricts all sorts of things to keep the competition as close as possible. Like when nascar stepped in and started mandating the shocks on the cars to keep the bigger money teams from outspending other teams on shock R&D. Limiting the amount of money a team can get from a sponsor is no different than that really. Having a few teams getting 20... soon to be 30 million a year per team while the majority of teams are getting much less gives those teams an advantage.
 
But Mr Gibbs I really want to spend $18 million a year sponsorship money on your car, sorry Mr. Mars I cant do it, Nascar rules say we have a $10 million ceiling for each team but here is a list of the suppliers and I really would like for them to donate a total of $8 million worth of parts equipment and services to us this year so just send them a check and thank you for your cooperation.
 
Allenbaba said:
For what it's worth, I don't fancy myself a PR guy, or sales guy. My job is to help marry our stable of drivers with their (usually pre-existing) products/sponsors/etc in a fun, attention getting way. We're basically an ad agency.

Though, I was the one who inked the Wonder deal for Kurt. Here's an anecdote you'll love: after a couple weeks of working with Flowers Foods (and their ad agency) we were on the homestretch (fee agreed to, deliverables agreed to, etc etc...) I then get an email from the guy I had been working with, their VP of Marketing. Below is an exact cut and paste of the entire email. Enjoy!

Hey, one more thing, our legal department just googled Kurt. Do you have a recommendation on what I should tell them?
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lol That's classic. There must have been you tube links on that page.
 
Johali said:
But Mr Gibbs I really want to spend $18 million a year sponsorship money on your car...
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Yes, because sponsors will really want to spend millions more than needed to sponsor a nascar team. :confused:
 
I think the sponsor money is all relative, there always were teams with shoestring budgets going against big dollar teams. Same thing now but both ends of the spectrum have gone up, just like the economy has over the history of NASCAR. The basic principle being that something that costs 1$ today might have been 5 cents 20 years ago, and it might be 10$ in another 20 years it's all relative to the markets.

I think the bigger problem lies in how these big teams are using the money and amalgamating to create alliances to stay on top thus allowing for fewer opportunities for newer teams to pop up. Teams like Hendrick are swallowing up all the talent off the track as well, so good talented people know that they have to get with one of the big teams to be successful.

Furthermore, look at HMS they'll be providing engines to 10-11 different cars next year? The way the big boys are developing and controlling their proprietary information and technology is what's going to keep the little guys down for good. No amount of sponsor money will be able to get you ahead of the big guys if your team is just forced to pay for their equipment and R&D to remain competitive. Especially a team like Roush, they have monopolized their engine deal so if your a Ford team you have to go through them and pony up to play, meanwhile they'll always be ahead of your curve because the stuff they sold you yesterday is already outdated in their R&D dept.
 
being able to lease a competitive engine and tech help that costs millions of dollars to obtain for what amounts to pennies on the dollar is a bargain to underfunded teams and a huge tax write off. Millions of dollars are spent and many expensive mistakes are made developing this single purpose equipment. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything, you are free to build your own motors engines etc. and some teams do.
 
I have heard that Mars is getting quite a healthy return on the money they spend on the 18 car. Of course I dont pretend to know how these large corporations operate but if Kyle is having trouble obtaining sponsors then others surely are too.
 
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