LMP1 class will see big changes starting in 2020

[StandOnIt]

I'll stand by what I said, the Europeans are doing a much better job of screwing up their racing than the U.S.

Some might get all excited about this though. I can't see it myself

The new technologies were announced for the P1 category Friday alongside a requirement for the cars to complete the first racing kilometer after every pitstop using electric power only. They are part of a rules package for 2020 that has been devised all with cost reduction in mind in an attempt to lure new manufacturers into the category.
LMP1 cars will be able to fast charge their batteries during pitstops. The hybrid-plugin technology is being introduced to reflect developments in the automotive industry.

http://autoweek.com/article/other-m...lmp1-class-will-see-big-changes-starting-2020

 

[FLRacingFan]

I said it in the Le Mans thread - too many gimmicks.

 

[LouieLouie]

If they are trying to make these LMP1 cars so trendy and green, why not put them as a lower level class? Make LMP2 the premier series followed by GTE and then have a prototype series for hybrid/electric cars that can go the distance but not necessarily make the speed.

I'm sure all of this is temporary until there is a large accident and a battery catches fire/explodes or sprays the crowd with battery acid. Alternatively battery powered cars could go by the wayside once people realize they are terrible for the environment when trying to get rid of them.

 

[StandOnIt]

It might work years from now when millentials can sit in the stands and clack around on their phones and still be able to talk back n fourth, but the average racing fan doesn't show up to hear a bunch of wheee sounds that sound like the bumper cars at a carnival.

 

[FLRacingFan]

If they are trying to make these LMP1 cars so trendy and green, why not put them as a lower level class? Make LMP2 the premier series followed by GTE and then have a prototype series for hybrid/electric cars that can go the distance but not necessarily make the speed.

I'm sure all of this is temporary until there is a large accident and a battery catches fire/explodes or sprays the crowd with battery acid. Alternatively battery powered cars could go by the wayside once people realize they are terrible for the environment when trying to get rid of them.

LMP2 would make for a horrible premier category since it's going to wind up as a spec ORECA chassis, Gibson NA V8 class. LMP1-L is a better category to prop up.

A few years ago we were talking about how great of a class LMP1-H was with Porsche, Toyota, Audi, and Nissan all involved or committed to involvement within the class. The Nissan program was rushed and the emissions scandal is probably going to prove to be the downfall of the VAG programs. It sucks to think about how we went from 11 factory entries at Le Mans to 5 so quickly...

The biggest problem right now is that the regulations favor a two-hyrbrid, 8 MJ car too much. Peugeot want to come in and run competitively with one hybrid in the 2 MJ or 4 MJ subclass and they just can't do that competitively right now. While a few years ago, Audi were competitive running with 2 MJ (2014) and 4 MJ (2015). The EoT needs to be seriously looked at. Instead, they came up with goofy **** like that plug-in recharging at pit stops, running 1 km out of the pits on electric power only, and finishing the race on electric power only. That's some of the most gimmicky **** I've ever heard of and does nothing to attract OEMs back to the series.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Overlooking all other aspects of this new requirement, exactly how is adding a second propulsion system supposed to cut cost?

If they really want the cars to reflect trends in the auto industry, there are several that are more prevalent than hybrids. Front-wheel drive leaps immediately to mind.

 

[FLRacingFan]

Overlooking all other aspects of this new requirement, exactly how is adding a second propulsion system supposed to cut cost?

If they really want the cars to reflect trends in the auto industry, there are several that are more prevalent than hybrids. Front-wheel drive leaps immediately to mind.

The second hybrid system was already there. Audi was the last one with one.

The Nissan was FWD...but we only saw that for one race.

 

[Doc Austin]

LMP2 would make for a horrible premier category since it's going to wind up as a spec ORECA chassis, Gibson NA V8 class.

Being a spec series, yes, but there's nothing wrong with those cars. They are affordable, race well and are dead solid reliable. Thgey could be prettier but you can't have everything, especially considering the Porsche 918 is even uglier.

IMSA BOPs it's DPIs to the standard of the Gibson engine. If the WEC adopted those rules, we would have the spec Gibson P2s running equal to DPIs with manufacturer bodywork. At the last IMSA race at the Glen, both the Oreca and Ligier were bang on the pace and either could have won the race.

Since we already have 25-30 or so P2 cars in Europe, imagine what would happen to the field size if it were opened up to DPI and the ensuing manufacturer interest. Add to that, if it's the top class and the privateers actually have a chance to win overall, it's safe to say we might finally see long term sports car success.

.

LMP1-L is a better category to prop up..

Except they are so complex and expensive privateers could never run those cars. If you discount the Bykolles, which has a hard time staying with the P2s, we only have four cars in the class. That's not much to prop up. I think it would be better to promote P2/DPI, simply because a four car race is not much to get excited about.

It sucks to think about how we went from 11 factory entries at Le Mans to 5 so quickly....

11 cars isn't exactly a huge field either. In the Group C WEC days they had so many prototypes they ran alone without any GT cars.

. Instead, they came up with goofy sh!t like that plug-in recharging at pit stops, running 1 km out of the pits on electric power only, and finishing the race on electric power only. That's some of the most gimmicky sh!t I've ever heard of and does nothing to attract OEMs back to the series.

You're right. It's all phony stuff that has nothing to do with racing. It's all about the feel good, high mined green mentality BS.

Back when racing was real, it was all about going as fast as you could, burning as much fuel and rubber as you could, making as much noise and raising as much hell as humanly possible. Now it's all about saving the planet. to show what good people we are and how much we care. Kumbaya, we are the world.


Having said all of that, I really do think IMSA got it right with the DPI concept and the FIA and ACO didn't go for it because it wasn't their idea. They could easily have 30 car fields if they just made P2 the premier class, and probably even more if they allowed the DPIs in. After seeing sports car racing fail over and over and over again, I'm just sick of it and sad everyone missed the golden opportunity to maybe pull it all together.

 

[Doc Austin]

It might work years from now when millentials can sit in the stands and clack around on their phones and still be able to talk back n fourth, but the average racing fan doesn't show up to hear a bunch of wheee sounds that sound like the bumper cars at a carnival.

Formula E cars sound exactly like 10th scale RC cars.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

It might work years from now when millentials can sit in the stands and clack around on their phones and still be able to talk back n fourth, but the average racing fan doesn't show up to hear a bunch of wheee sounds that sound like the bumper cars at a carnival.

Once I put the headset on, they all sound the same to me. Based on the scanners I see in the stands, the average race fan is more interested in listening to MRN.

 

[FLRacingFan]

Being a spec series, yes, but there's nothing wrong with those cars. They are affordable, race well and are dead solid reliable. Thgey could be prettier but you can't have everything, especially considering the Porsche 918 is even uglier.

IMSA BOPs it's DPIs to the standard of the Gibson engine. If the WEC adopted those rules, we would have the spec Gibson P2s running equal to DPIs with manufacturer bodywork. At the last IMSA race at the Glen, both the Oreca and Ligier were bang on the pace and either could have won the race.

Since we already have 25-30 or so P2 cars in Europe, imagine what would happen to the field size if it were opened up to DPI and the ensuing manufacturer interest. Add to that, if it's the top class and the privateers actually have a chance to win overall, it's safe to say we might finally see long term sports car success.

.

Except they are so complex and expensive privateers could never run those cars. If you discount the Bykolles, which has a hard time staying with the P2s, we only have four cars in the class. That's not much to prop up. I think it would be better to promote P2/DPI, simply because a four car race is not much to get excited about.



11 cars isn't exactly a huge field either. In the Group C WEC days they had so many prototypes they ran alone without any GT cars.


You're right. It's all phony stuff that has nothing to do with racing. It's all about the feel good, high mined green mentality BS.

Back when racing was real, it was all about going as fast as you could, burning as much fuel and rubber as you could, making as much noise and raising as much hell as humanly possible. Now it's all about saving the planet. to show what good people we are and how much we care. Kumbaya, we are the world.


Having said all of that, I really do think IMSA got it right with the DPI concept and the FIA and ACO didn't go for it because it wasn't their idea. They could easily have 30 car fields if they just made P2 the premier class, and probably even more if they allowed the DPIs in. After seeing sports car racing fail over and over and over again, I'm just sick of it and sad everyone missed the golden opportunity to maybe pull it all together.

LMP1-L is in a transition year and is bound to rebound next year, and LMP2 teams look to be mainly the ones making the jump or evaluating the move. Manor are reportedly moving up, SMP will have a program, Rebellion want to come back in 2019, Jota Sport are looking at a program, ByKolles will bring an entirely new car, some unidentified customer has already brought two Perrinn machines, and a Japanese constructor (Dome?) are looking to build a car as well. They just got screwed over so badly by the initial hybrid regulations that everyone bailed but the FIA and ACO have made efforts to make amends recently. In theory it should be much more appealing to teams who want to have some sort of technical input into the car, rather than going the LMP2 model of buying a car and running it as is. You can actively develop the chassis and the bodywork and bring just about any engine you want as long as you run it within the fuel allotment and fuel flow regulations. The Mecachrome V6T that will accompany the initial Ginetta should have about 800 HP, versus the 600 HP from the LMP2 Gibson. And rather than one manufacturer being tied to one constructor as in DPi, you'll be able to mix and match engines and chassis. The Nissan engine in the ByKolles is the ICE from the failed LMP1 car, and was about the best part of that machine. Toyota is going to make its Lexus GT500 engine available to customers too.

Basically, I anticipate the revamped LMP1-L category to have a solid amount of technical development and diversity without all of the gimmicks and ridiculously high costs of the LMP1-H class. LMP1-L could be like a DPi on steroids and could definitely coexist with LMP2.