Make the Drivers popular again!

HoneyBadger said:
She made the list of 150 most marketable athletes in the world, and was the only person in motorsports outside of F1 to do so.

She has more potential than Hailie Deegan to grow the sport. Just needs to perform on track now.
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Hallie is the better of the two behind the wheel and also had more backing. Jade is gonna be the female in NASCAR that actually gets somewhere.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Ah yes we’ve reached the tried and true “I want to relate to my Everyman working class driver like I could in the olden days” peak off season post….as the Everyman working class driver took his yacht to the Bahamas for an off season fishing trip. The older I’ve gotten in age, these drivers have gotten younger than me. I guess my question is as you watch these races each week, why you would feel the need to relate to a 23 year old kid that drives race cars for a living? Hell some of the Xfinity drivers are young enough to be my child now, I feel no need to relate. I’m still in awe of these guys and gals ability to drive a race car at a level I couldn’t humanly comprehend. That should be the marketing hook.
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This. I have always liked cars. From Hot Wheels to the cars I own, I love them. I am fascinated by them. The engineering, etc. Drivers are incidental. They get all of the credit when they win, and little of the blame when they lose unless they wall it. I respect them, but I am not in awe. I couldn't give three ****s about what they do when they are not at a NASCAR event as long as they are not hurting anybody.....whether that is racing in Australia or basking in the sun in Cabo. I have always felt that the marketing hook should be geared to those who like cars (duh)....instead we go after the football crowd.....a crowd we will never get. If the car culture is gone, NASCAR would be a great way to get it back.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Hallie is the better of the two behind the wheel and also had more backing. Jade is gonna be the female in NASCAR that actually gets somewhere.
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Disagree with all of this.

Toni's sample size in Trucks is too small to say Hailie is better.

Personally, I think Hailie Deegan does have the talent to win races, but she was given the opportunity and was in elite rides and was literally the worst full-time driver in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series.

I do know that Toni puts the work in and she wants it. It's not outside any realm of possibility that Toni ultimately outperforms Deegan's stats because of effort alone.

As for backing, Hailie had a last name and her dad's sponsors.

But she was enormously popular among a small fanbase. As far as raw marketing potential goes, Toni blows Hailie out of the water. Toni's been in sports magazines, been talked about on morning news shows and evening shows. I know several people who don't watch NASCAR at all who know who she is.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Ah yes we’ve reached the tried and true “I want to relate to my Everyman working class driver like I could in the olden days” peak off season post….as the Everyman working class driver took his yacht to the Bahamas for an off season fishing trip. The older I’ve gotten in age, these drivers have gotten younger than me. I guess my question is as you watch these races each week, why you would feel the need to relate to a 23 year old kid that drives race cars for a living? Hell some of the Xfinity drivers are young enough to be my child now, I feel no need to relate. I’m still in awe of these guys and gals ability to drive a race car at a level I couldn’t humanly comprehend. That should be the marketing hook.
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There's never going to be another Dale Earnhardt. Earnhardt was a once-in-a-lifetime, transcendent figure.

But lets not forget that Jeff Gordon was a household name in the 90s and 2000s.

There was a time even after Earnhardt where the winner of the Daytona 500 was on a full blown media tour for a week. There was a time when NASCAR drivers were being interviewed regularly on late night shows, morning shows, and Fox and MSNBC. I remember, at different times, seeing Jimmie Johnson, Rusty Wallace, and Mark Martin all make appearance on MSNBC to discuss the Chase.

Ryan Blaney, IMO, has all the potential to be a household name. He's a bonafide championship contender, he's got the looks, and he's got a ton of charisma.
 
HoneyBadger said:
Disagree with all of this.

Toni's sample size in Trucks is too small to say Hailie is better.

Personally, I think Hailie Deegan does have the talent to win races, but she was given the opportunity and was in elite rides and was literally the worst full-time driver in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series.

I do know that Toni puts the work in and she wants it. It's not outside any realm of possibility that Toni ultimately outperforms Deegan's stats because of effort alone.

As for backing, Hailie had a last name and her dad's sponsors.

But she was enormously popular among a small fanbase. As far as raw marketing potential goes, Toni blows Hailie out of the water. Toni's been in sports magazines, been talked about on morning news shows and evening shows. I know several people who don't watch NASCAR at all who know who she is.
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There's plenty of sample size elsewhere. Toni hasn't won a single stock car race; her only recorded wins on DriverDB are in the USAC Western Midget series. In the best possible ARCA equipment, she finished top 3 one time in 65 starts. Had ARCA been full of talented drivers and not a series for teenage late model drivers to learn how to crash at superspeedways & 15 car short track fields, I might be more amenable to the notion that she just got out competed in the wrong era. She's in the easiest possible era and objectively did worse than Deegan.
 
Greg said:
Note that this is a highly opinionated and subjective post, YMMV

When people talk about a great driver or moment, are they reminiscing about something he said or did on the track?
I myself think of moments like Alan Kulwicki at Atlanta in '92, Craven and Kurt Busch battling for the checkered flag at Darlington.

Even with the famous 1979 Daytona 500, I'm thinking of Donnie and Cale overcoming early problems and making up laps during the race only to take each other out trying to win it, with Petty ending a 43-race winless streak; that was the passion, in my opinion. That, along with the smells of racing gas and tires, and the noise that dominated the senses, etc., was the stuff that got me out of bed the next morning with instant thoughts about the next race, and I lived all week just waiting.

I guess Bobby and Cale showed more personality with the post-race fight, and to be honest, that is what people still talk about the most. But I could have lived with or without the fight between Bobby and Cale; that's not why I follow racing or made it my dream as a kid. Bobby and Cale were both larger than life because of the way they drove; the fight was a sideshow, to put it kindly.

Tim Richmond is another interesting case imo. Some called him Hollywood, and he may have had the wildest personality of all. But it was his incredible performance during the last 2/3rds of the 1986 season that inspired me. The Richmond/Hyde combo was terrible for the first 10 races, and it looked like a bust. Then they figured it out, and they could not have been any more brilliant imo. It was a great racing story that a contrived Cole Trickle could never accuratly represent.
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A lot of crap going on in this thread...but this post, man do I like this post. Just mentioning those drivers and racers had me on the edge of my seat.
Thanks for the read!
 
Most drivers were uncomfortable in TV interviews before Jeff Gordon came along. I noticed the next generation of drivers were well spoken and more photogenic. While race driving is the most important skill, marketing skills became important for drivers.
 
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FYI: No matter what you are racing, it takes a sh!t pot full of money to do it at any level.

Hells bells, Super Late Model Racing 30 years ago took at least $250.000.00 in funding to be competitive here in Florida. That is assuming you had a tire sponsor.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Also: who REALLY wants to watch a car race, whether it be USF3000, F3, CARS Late Model Tour, or USAC Midgets, and you see half the field is high school age?
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As opposed to watching high school kids get paralyzed playing football, or break bones in gymnastic or cheerleading, or lose teeth playing hockey, or start down the road to traumatic brain injury from any number of athletic pursuits? What's the difference?

If someone is showing talent in a race car, I don't much care how old he or she is.
virtualbalboa said:
grown men never getting serious opportunities in NASCAR
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Dude, grown men don't get serious opportunities in any sport in the 21st Century. A kid with any evidence of talent is routed into a (for profit) training program well before high school. Talented kids are often encouraged to move into school districts that further their development. Does that require deep-pocketed parents? Sure, some kids are able to find funding and sponsorship in this day of NIL. Soccer teams have signed kids before they're 15 as long-term investments. College basketball was forced to accept 'one and done' because the kids saw no reason to sacrifice years of potential income for minimal benefit.

Tell me why young drivers shouldn't take the same advantage.
 
HoneyBadger said:
There's never going to be another Dale Earnhardt. Earnhardt was a once-in-a-lifetime, transcendent figure.

But lets not forget that Jeff Gordon was a household name in the 90s and 2000s.

There was a time even after Earnhardt where the winner of the Daytona 500 was on a full blown media tour for a week. There was a time when NASCAR drivers were being interviewed regularly on late night shows, morning shows, and Fox and MSNBC. I remember, at different times, seeing Jimmie Johnson, Rusty Wallace, and Mark Martin all make appearance on MSNBC to discuss the Chase.

Ryan Blaney, IMO, has all the potential to be a household name. He's a bonafide championship contender, he's got the looks, and he's got a ton of charisma.
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And one hellofa good looking wife.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
As opposed to watching high school kids get paralyzed playing football, or break bones in gymnastic or cheerleading, or lose teeth playing hockey, or start down the road to traumatic brain injury from any number of athletic pursuits? What's the difference?
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First off - pretty much any and all travel youth sports have been molded into a way for parents intend their kid to pay for their college. It's treated as an investment towards scholarships and there is no significant national audience to watch youth sports on television or live. Other than Texas high school football and a handful of prep school basketball teams, no one in America cares about high schoolers playing games enough to invest time/energy to see it unless it is their kid playing.

Secondly - everything I just named and you just referenced is an amateur competition. The kids in racing are being pushed out to race for money as professionals sometimes before 9th grade. It's ridiculous, and honestly, the general population isn't that interested in seeing grown adults mix it up with 12 or 13 year olds. If they were, we'd have seen stratospheric growth and not consistent declines in viewership, car counts, and interest.

Finally - I have attended all manner of athletic contests in my life, from tennis to lacrosse. I don't know of any where a kid could so easily kill multiple people in an accident or semi-intentionally kill someone as I've seen in racing. There's a world of difference in dodging a foul ball or hockey puck and someone taking down the entire fence in a 410 sprint car. On the opposite side of the wall, I can very easily imagine a 14 year old hooking someone in a late model over an imagined offense and killing them in a head-on hit to the wall or pit divider. Could an adult do that too? Sure. We expect a certain level of competence and maturity from any legal adult that doesn't necessarily exist with any kid, which is also why kids are basically just their parent's property until which time the court says otherwise. Why put a kid in that situation? Better yet, why give lots of kids cars which they could kill each other with? Who does that benefit other than provide entertainment for the worst human beings alive?

Charlie Spencer said:
Dude, grown men don't get serious opportunities in any sport in the 21st Century.
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They do in MMA and boxing all the time. I'm not saying that there aren't kids who box (there most certainly are) but there's plenty of successful athletes who came to those sports well after their 18th birthday. Bernard Hopkins didn't even retire ten years ago and his first pro bout was at 23 after learning the sport in prison. However....

Charlie Spencer said:
A kid with any evidence of talent is routed into a (for profit) training program well before high school. Talented kids are often encouraged to move into school districts that further their development. Does that require deep-pocketed parents? Sure, some kids are able to find funding and sponsorship in this day of NIL. Soccer teams have signed kids before they're 15 as long-term investments. College basketball was forced to accept 'one and done' because the kids saw no reason to sacrifice years of potential income for minimal benefit.

Tell me why young drivers shouldn't take the same advantage.
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NIL exists because the NCAA, given decades of lead time that they were running a cartel, decided to do nothing about it until the courts forced them to. Before NIL players were paid under the table. Also, last I checked here on campus, undergrads don't tend to be children. They are adults.

RE: travel youth sports, they're all pretty much terrible. What happens in US youth basketball and in European professional soccer is closer to what I think the ideal should be for auto racing in terms of OEMs investing money into drivers, but they don't go far enough down the pipeline in racing to do much other than given support to the best ride buyer.

Charlie Spencer said:
That's true for public roads. Private property is and has been another matter. The only thing saying 13-year-old Jr. can't tear up the back 40 is Ma and Pa's approval.
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13 year olds being handed a car to play around with on the farm is something an infinitesimal percentage of the population does.
 
@virtualbalboa , we're not going to reach common ground. You appear to have no use for young drivers, especially those who are able to take advantage of favorable family economics. I don't care what financial method a driver uses to climb the ladder, or at what age he or she starts.

Have a great holiday period, be it Christmas or whatever your choice is.
 
I don't know if this really has been touched upon, it's not as exciting as railing about younger drivers in the sport. Sponsors are tied to drivers OR the drivers are always looking for sponsors to finance their racing. It's the reason I think Nascar's idea could be a good one. It's a great way for a driver to promote themselves, and give his sponsorship, good exposure. Good driver exposure can attract more sponsorship to the sport.
 
StandOnIt said:
I don't know if this really has been touched upon, it's not as exciting as railing about younger drivers in the sport. Sponsors are tied to drivers OR the drivers are always looking for sponsors to finance their racing. It's the reason I think Nascar's idea could be a good one. It's a great way for a driver to promote themselves, and give his sponsorship, good exposure. Good driver exposure can attract more sponsorship to the sport.
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Hopefully NASCAR will push some the drivers who are less well known.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
It's possible to have more than one marketing approach. It's even possible to be successful with more than one.
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Great point.....let's get back to the cars.....and the drivers.....and the teams......I liked what Fox had going on with the "Meet the Crews" segment. I would love to see something on set ups from sim to car in the shop, and exactly what the crew chiefs can do at the track. We hear that they are limited, but just what is it that they tweak? I want to hear the decision making processes that go into those decisions....and what input the OEM has. WE used to have a nondescript motor coach that handled all of the data acquisition. WE are not full blown hauler like the other OEMs.
 
StandOnIt said:
Most sponsors are looking for somebody that represents what they are selling.
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I don't think this is the case anymore. Gone are the days when a company like Wrangler would come in and want to advertise their rugged drivers doing rugged things in their rugged jeans. Today's sponsor deals are often determined by which team can give the best Business 2 Business deals, or else they just use the car as an activation platform with little regard to the driver and how that driver will fit with the brand.

Look at Christopher Bell and tell me that he fits the image for tough DeWalt tools.

Listen to William Byron and tell me he's the guy that's coating his truck with Raptor bedliner on the weekend.

Austin Cindric has stated on podcasts that he doesn't drink, yet he's the NASCAR face of Keystone Light.

Those ties just aren't as strong today as they used to be.
 
My fear is that the response would be to tell drivers “go out and get s gimmick” and then everyone is smashing watermelons.

Which oddly is the least interesting thing Ross does.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I don't think this is the case anymore. Gone are the days when a company like Wrangler would come in and want to advertise their rugged drivers doing rugged things in their rugged jeans. Today's sponsor deals are often determined by which team can give the best Business 2 Business deals, or else they just use the car as an activation platform with little regard to the driver and how that driver will fit with the brand.

Look at Christopher Bell and tell me that he fits the image for tough DeWalt tools.

Listen to William Byron and tell me he's the guy that's coating his truck with Raptor bedliner on the weekend.

Austin Cindric has stated on podcasts that he doesn't drink, yet he's the NASCAR face of Keystone Light.

Those ties just aren't as strong today as they used to be.
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Pretty much when they are in the victory circle or being interviewed before or after the race, they never forget who is sponsoring them when multiple thousands of people are watching.
 
RaceCritter said:
My fear is that the response would be to tell drivers “go out and get s gimmick” and then everyone is smashing watermelons.

Which oddly is the least interesting thing Ross does.
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You obviously are aware and know what and why Chastain is doing that. Not being snarky, but if you don't think of Chastain when you think of watermelons, he isn't doing his job.
 
StandOnIt said:
You obviously are aware and know what and why Chastain is doing that. Not being snarky, but if you don't think of Chastain when you think of watermelons, he isn't doing his job.
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When you think of pot, you think of Kyle? I see the connection. Pot makes you dizzy and so does spinning. Clever.
 
RaceCritter said:
Yeah but one smasht guy is enough.
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There are plenty of signature celebrations - watermelon smashes, climbing fences, Polish victory laps, giving the checkers to kids, busting pinatas, back flips, puking, whatever Austin Dillon does although thankfully we don't have to look at that very often.

What's old and tired are burnouts.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
There are plenty of signature celebrations - watermelon smashes, climbing fences, Polish victory laps, giving the checkers to kids, busting pinatas, back flips, puking, whatever Austin Dillon does although thankfully we don't have to look at that very often.

What's old and tired are burnouts.
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Fans must leave the stands smelling like burned rubber with smoke in their eyes. It's in Nascar's new contract....charter teams only of course.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
There are plenty of signature celebrations - watermelon smashes, climbing fences, Polish victory laps, giving the checkers to kids, busting pinatas, back flips, puking, whatever Austin Dillon does although thankfully we don't have to look at that very often.

What's old and tired are burnouts.
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Remember "burn it down"...Chad sure does
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I won't disagree that SOME NASCAR fans hate Wallace because he's black (why are we tap-dancing around say it?), but 'overwhelming majority'? I'm going to need independent poll results before I buy that part of your statement.
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It's his mouth that lost me. I was a staunch supporter of his, even choked up when he won Martinsville but Talladega took him down and its his fault. He had every opportunity to say what's obvious, that our sport is welcoming to all but instead he rode the farce of the noose into stardom during his media tour.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Do you find it easier to relate to those from less privileged backgrounds? I doubt I have much in common with any of them. They've spent years developing the skill to get paid big bucks to put their bodies on the line week in and week out. Somehow I'm still able to connect with some of them without knowing their backgrounds.
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Its funny, I never once thought about Bobby, Richard, Cale or David's personalities.
 
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